[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Understanding the penalties (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/11/2013 5:23:31 AM EDT
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I thought it would be good to try to work through what the penalties are since there is a lot of confusion. For the sake of this discussion forget dates assume there are no amendments and this thing goes through as planned.
For example: What is the penalty for possession of an unregistered assault weapon? It would appear based on this: § 265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she: (1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this section subject to the registration requirements of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision. Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony. That failure to register is a class E felony. Magazines seem more complicated and contradictory. See this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1439258_.html&page=1 |
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I thought it would be good to try to work through what the penalties are since there is a lot of confusion. For the sake of this discussion forget dates assume there are no amendments and this thing goes through as planned. For example: What is the penalty for possession of an unregistered assault weapon? It would appear based on this: § 265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she: (1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this section subject to the registration requirements of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision. Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony. That failure to register is a class E felony. Magazines seem more complicated and contradictory. See this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1439258_.html&page=1 It's more complicated than that: (C) A PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY FAILS TO APPLY TO REGISTER SUCH WEAPON, AS REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION, WITHIN ONE YEAR OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARAGRAPH SHALL BE GUILTY OF A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR AND SUCH PERSON WHO UNKNOWINGLY S. 2230 34 A. 2388 FAILS TO VALIDLY REGISTER SUCH WEAPON WITHIN SUCH ONE YEAR PERIOD SHALL BE GIVEN A WARNING BY AN APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY ABOUT SUCH FAILURE AND GIVEN THIRTY DAYS IN WHICH TO APPLY TO REGISTER SUCH WEAPON OR TO SURRENDER IT. A FAILURE TO APPLY OR SURRENDER SUCH WEAPON WITHIN SUCH THIRTY-DAY PERIOD SHALL RESULT IN SUCH WEAPON BEING REMOVED BY AN APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY AND DECLARED A NUISANCE. |
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I thought it would be good to try to work through what the penalties are since there is a lot of confusion. For the sake of this discussion forget dates assume there are no amendments and this thing goes through as planned. For example: What is the penalty for possession of an unregistered assault weapon? It would appear based on this: [span style='color: red;']§ 265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she: (1) possesses any firearm or;... Can anyone explain (1)? Is it really as straight forward as it appears? |
| One thing to keep in mind about penalties. Over 90% of convictions in all crimes are the result of a plea bargain. So for a first offense, the actual penalty will usually be a degree or two less. From what I have seen, if you have no priors it will probably mean probation, not jail time. |
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So let me see if I can summarize:
If you knowingly don't register for one year after the required date = Class A Misdemeanor If you unknowing don't register for one year after the required day = They give you 30 days to register or they will confiscate. If you don't register and the one year from the date of initial registration has passed = Class E Felony Sound right? |
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So let me see if I can summarize: If you knowingly don't register for one year after the required date = Class A Misdemeanor If you unknowing don't register for one year after the required day = They give you 30 days to register or they will confiscate. If you don't register and the one year from the date of initial registration has passed = Class E Felony Sound right? The way that I read the section I posted above... is that if you don't register during the 1 year registration period then it's a class a misemeanor if you failed to do so knowingly... if it was unknowingly they are required to give you 30 days to register it or they will confiscate. As far as the section you posted above it requires a knowingly mental state. And it does seem to contradict the other section... chalk it up to poor construction. It's important to note what the mental state requirement of a law is (unless strict liability) because that's a factor that they will need to prove in order to convict you. Now if they catch you with a assault rifle, and you went to one of those town meetings, you signed your name... if they have that record they might use it to prove you knew you should have registered it. |
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So let me see if I can summarize: If you knowingly don't register for one year after the required date = Class A Misdemeanor If you unknowing don't register for one year after the required day = They give you 30 days to register or they will confiscate. If you don't register and the one year from the date of initial registration has passed = Class E Felony Sound right? Unless you are caught with it outside your home/place of business with the weapon loaded*. Then it's a class C violent felony with a range of 3.5 to 15 years prison. Not all counties plea bargain with firearms. 
*Loaded doesn't mean rounds in the magazine/chamber. It could mean 1 round in your pocket. |
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So let me see if I can summarize: If you knowingly don't register for one year after the required date = Class A Misdemeanor If you unknowing don't register for one year after the required day = They give you 30 days to register or they will confiscate. If you don't register and the one year from the date of initial registration has passed = Class E Felony Sound right? The way that I read the section I posted above... is that if you don't register during the 1 year registration period then it's a class a misemeanor if you failed to do so knowingly... if it was unknowingly they are required to give you 30 days to register it or they will confiscate. As far as the section you posted above it requires a knowingly mental state. And it does seem to contradict the other section... chalk it up to poor construction. It's important to note what the mental state requirement of a law is (unless strict liability) because that's a factor that they will need to prove in order to convict you. Now if they catch you with a assault rifle, and you went to one of those town meetings, you signed your name... if they have that record they might use it to prove you knew you should have registered it. nevermind 
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Might get this thread locked or deleted but don't give a shit and nether should any of you.
I hope you all see that they are slowly chipping away at our rights. When is there a point where we all say NO! This law is ridiculous. And was passed with out our knowledge. Molon Labe |
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What pisses me off is how many threads there is on how do we comply with this and that.
This is what comply and it's synonyms are; com·ply /kəmˈplī/ Verb (of a person or group) Act in accordance with a wish or command. (of an article) Meet specified standards. Synonyms obey - consent - conform - accede - agree |
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What pisses me off is how many threads there is on how do we comply with this and that. This is what comply and it's synonyms are; com·ply /kəmˈplī/ Verb (of a person or group) Act in accordance with a wish or command. (of an article) Meet specified standards. Synonyms obey - consent - conform - accede - agree If you're not going to comply, then it should be an educated decision. Understand that you may face real consequences. Why judge others who don't want to take such a risk? It's a personal decision. |
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What pisses me off is how many threads there is on how do we comply with this and that. This is what comply and it's synonyms are; com·ply /kəmˈplī/ Verb (of a person or group) Act in accordance with a wish or command. (of an article) Meet specified standards. Synonyms obey - consent - conform - accede - agree If you're not going to comply, then it should be an educated decision. Understand that you may face real consequences. Why judge others who don't want to take such a risk? It's a personal decision. So what you are saying is your not going to defend our rights? Not on the same team huh. |
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I thought it would be good to try to work through what the penalties are since there is a lot of confusion. For the sake of this discussion forget dates assume there are no amendments and this thing goes through as planned. For example: What is the penalty for possession of an unregistered assault weapon? It would appear based on this: § 265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she: (1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this section subject to the registration requirements of subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision. Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony. That failure to register is a class E felony. Magazines seem more complicated and contradictory. See this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1439258_.html&page=1 It's more complicated than that: (C) A PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY FAILS TO APPLY TO REGISTER SUCH WEAPON, AS REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION, WITHIN ONE YEAR OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS PARAGRAPH SHALL BE GUILTY OF A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR AND SUCH PERSON WHO UNKNOWINGLY S. 2230 34 A. 2388 FAILS TO VALIDLY REGISTER SUCH WEAPON WITHIN SUCH ONE YEAR PERIOD SHALL BE GIVEN A WARNING BY AN APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY ABOUT SUCH FAILURE AND GIVEN THIRTY DAYS IN WHICH TO APPLY TO REGISTER SUCH WEAPON OR TO SURRENDER IT. A FAILURE TO APPLY OR SURRENDER SUCH WEAPON WITHIN SUCH THIRTY-DAY PERIOD SHALL RESULT IN SUCH WEAPON BEING REMOVED BY AN APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY AND DECLARED A NUISANCE. Remember those sign-in sheets at the SAFE presentations? |
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If you were at the meeting, doesn't mean you were awake or able to hear or wasn't distracted or didn't go to the bathroom when any particular topic was addressed. Why anyone even signed in is beyond me. I saw that and just laughed We didn't even have these events downstate. They weren't there to educate, they were gaging how people reacting to this BS in the regions they know would be a problem. |
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Quoted: We didn't even have these events downstate. They weren't there to educate, they were gauging how people reacting to this BS in the regions they know would be a problem. Almost pointless on Long Island. I am sure the per capita level of gun ownership down here is much less than upstate. Besides, we will have the Nassau and Suffolk County PD's rolling us to make sure we comply. In fact, as I have commented in other threads, I would not be at all surprised if the Nassau and Suffolk police in cooperation with the DA's, don't go on some fishing expeditions to all gun shops on the island and pull all the 4473's they can find for now prohibited weapons. Against Federal law yes, but it never stopped NYC and NYPD from doing the same out here looking for purchases made by NYC residents. |
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What pisses me off is how many threads there is on how do we comply with this and that. This is what comply and it's synonyms are; com·ply /kəmˈplī/ Verb (of a person or group) Act in accordance with a wish or command. (of an article) Meet specified standards. Synonyms obey - consent - conform - accede - agree If you're not going to comply, then it should be an educated decision. Understand that you may face real consequences. Why judge others who don't want to take such a risk? It's a personal decision. So what you are saying is your not going to defend our rights? Not on the same team huh. Team? The second amendment is not a team sport. What I choose to do is my business. Jumping on the bandwagon and not registering has implications that far exceed risk of a misdemeanor or an E felony. It needs to be an informed decision. How is not registering going to do a thing to defend our rights? You have a machine gun at home? You have a pistol without a pistol permit? I didn't think so... 
You want to risk committing a felony that carries mandatory state prison time? That's your choice. I wont judge you. But you not registering does nothing to protect "our" rights. |
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What pisses me off is how many threads there is on how do we comply with this and that. This is what comply and it's synonyms are; com·ply /kəmˈplī/ Verb (of a person or group) Act in accordance with a wish or command. (of an article) Meet specified standards. Synonyms obey - consent - conform - accede - agree If you're not going to comply, then it should be an educated decision. Understand that you may face real consequences. Why judge others who don't want to take such a risk? It's a personal decision. So what you are saying is your not going to defend our rights? Not on the same team huh. Team? The second amendment is not a team sport. What I choose to do is my business. Jumping on the bandwagon and not registering has implications that far exceed risk of a misdemeanor or an E felony. It needs to be an informed decision. How is not registering going to do a thing to defend our rights? You have a machine gun at home? You have a pistol without a pistol permit? I didn't think so...
You want to risk committing a felony that carries mandatory state prison time? That's your choice. I wont judge you. But you not registering does nothing to protect "our" rights. Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. |
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with your unregistered "assault rifle" and one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Article 265 doesn't limit your exposure to an E felony. |
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Why would I be driving to the range with ammo in my pocket? My entire argument was for not registering not transporting firearms improperly. Non compliance works |
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Why would I be driving to the range with ammo in my pocket? My entire argument was for not registering not transporting firearms improperly. Because your unregistered assault rifle would be a loaded firearm "not in your home or place of business." See Penal Law 265.03(3). In other words, you would have just committed a Class C Violent felony facing a minimum of 3.5 years prison and a maximum of 15 years prison. 
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Why would I be driving to the range with ammo in my pocket? My entire argument was for not registering not transporting firearms improperly. Because your unregistered assault rifle would be a loaded firearm "not in your home or place of business." See Penal Law 265.03(3). In other words, you would have just committed a Class C Violent felony facing a minimum of 3.5 years prison and a maximum of 15 years prison.
Apparently the two lawyers I have discussed this with have different point of views on the subject. The class C felony is if you're using an unregistered and loaded assault rifle to commit a crime. Owning the unregistered assault weapon unloaded/whatever and KNOWINGLY didn't register it is only an A misdemeanor . Let me know when the court is going to spend enough time trying to prove intent and you unknowingly didn't register for a class A misdemeanor. Hell they even mention the exact same scenarios in SAFE Q&A meetings goto 22:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol1SzjHPFGw |
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Why would I be driving to the range with ammo in my pocket? My entire argument was for not registering not transporting firearms improperly. Because your unregistered assault rifle would be a loaded firearm "not in your home or place of business." See Penal Law 265.03(3). In other words, you would have just committed a Class C Violent felony facing a minimum of 3.5 years prison and a maximum of 15 years prison.
Apparently the two lawyers I have discussed this with have different point of views on the subject. The class C felony is if you're using an unregistered and loaded assault rifle to commit a crime. Owning the unregistered assault weapon unloaded/whatever and KNOWNING you were supposed to register is only an A misdemeanor Let me know when the court is going to spend enough time trying to prove intent and you unknowingly didn't register for a class A misdemeanor No. You are referring to 265.03(1)(b) "Intent to use unlawfully." I am referring to 265.03(3)--a completely different subsection. It has nothing to do with intent to commit a crime. Better talk to a third lawyer.
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Worked in Canada the non compliance rate for long gun registration was 70% or some thing insane. It ended up costing Canada a ton of money, they realized it did nothing to make people safer, and they realized the non compliance rate at which point they terminated the registration program. Again you could very well claim ignorance to the law based on how they keep changing things etc and just deal with the 30 day registration if you ended up in a bad situation....The majority of the police in NYS won't be actively enforcing these new laws it will be added on if you get hit for some other crime. If some court was to go full press on someone over a class E felony a decent defense attorney would get it handled and in the end it wouldn't be worth any ones time. Ok. Ignorance will get you out of a class A misdemeanor for failing to register. That is not the only potential exposure. You still have a "firearm" and face exposure under 265.03(3) (i.e. Class C Violent felony) if caught driving to the range with one round in your pocket. The ignorance of the law will not get you out of the rest of Article 265 of the Penal Law. Why would I be driving to the range with ammo in my pocket? My entire argument was for not registering not transporting firearms improperly. Because your unregistered assault rifle would be a loaded firearm "not in your home or place of business." See Penal Law 265.03(3). In other words, you would have just committed a Class C Violent felony facing a minimum of 3.5 years prison and a maximum of 15 years prison.
Apparently the two lawyers I have discussed this with have different point of views on the subject. The class C felony is if you're using an unregistered and loaded assault rifle to commit a crime. Owning the unregistered assault weapon unloaded/whatever and KNOWNING you were supposed to register is only an A misdemeanor Let me know when the court is going to spend enough time trying to prove intent and you unknowingly didn't register for a class A misdemeanor No. You are referring to 265.03(1)(b) "Intent to use unlawfully." I am referring to 265.03(3)--a completely difference section. It has nothing to do with intent to cimmit a crime. Better talk to a third lawyer. lol |
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I think the way this is enforced is really going to decide how this all shakes out.
Are they going to be doing spot checks at public/private ranges? If you're shooting on your own land are they going to try to come onto your land to check? Are they going to setup DUI like checkpoints at road bottlenecks? (If you live on long island it's all one big clusterfuck bottleneck to get off the island) Are they just going to say $500 reward for reporting someone that has an unregistered assault weapon? If the jack booted thugs kick in my door in the middle of the night, will they shoot my dog? I wouldn't think so, but then again I wouldn't think someone in the dead of night would sign our rights away... I thought I lived in America |
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The way the law is written, you have to draw a legal conclusion in order to comply. Personally, I am not an attorney. Therefore, by definition, I lack the knowledge and expertise necessary to be able to draw a legal conclusion as to what exactly the law says.
However, I don't know if that would be considered a valid defense. |
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You're debate is over getting caught with a loaded unregistered weapon.
Why would anyone be in a situation like this? Most people who decide not to register will keep the locked up at home or fire them on private property. If they're transporting them like most normal people they would keep them unloaded and ammunition separated from the firearm. It's pretty fucking obvious not to get caught/pulled over/whatever with a loaded illegal firearm lol |
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You're debate is over getting caught with a loaded unregistered weapon. Why would anyone be in a situation like this? Most people who decide not to register will keep the locked up at home or fire them on private property. If they're transporting them like most normal people they would keep them unloaded and ammunition separated from the firearm. It's pretty fucking obvious not to get caught/pulled over/whatever with a loaded illegal firearm lol Loaded is a word that has its own legal definition. If you have a box of ammo in the same car as your rifle, then said gun is arguably loaded. My range is a private club that doesn't sell ammo. As such, I am stuck bringing my ammo with me. |
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You're debate is over getting caught with a loaded unregistered weapon. Why would anyone be in a situation like this? Most people who decide not to register will keep the locked up at home or fire them on private property. If they're transporting them like most normal people they would keep them unloaded and ammunition separated from the firearm. It's pretty fucking obvious not to get caught/pulled over/whatever with a loaded illegal firearm lol Loaded is a word that has its own legal definition. You have a box of ammo in the same car as your rifle and your gun is arguably loaded. My range is a private club that doesn't sell ammo. As such, I am stuck bringing my ammo with me. Right? However in most cases the legal definition of loaded is something similar to this "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm" In the city of Buffalo for example you can't travel with a loaded magazine even if its separated from the firearm...Most people including my self leave the mags unloaded, keep ammo in a separate container and the firearm in a separate container. Not sure why we are even having this debate The original intent here was the legal issues around an unregistered assault weapon not transporting a loaded one or whatever twisted interpretation you have of loaded. So before you derailed what I was saying its a class A mis to get caught with one if you knowingly didn't register it. If they can't prove intent(You didn't start spewing fuck cuomo and I won't register etc) you get a warning and 30 days to register. So worst case some power hungry NY State Trooper catches you determines intent and you get hit with a class A misdemeanor... Most local sheriffs/police disagree with this law so the outcome could be entirely different for normal law abiding citizens(No prior crimes etc) |
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The way the law is written, you have to draw a legal conclusion in order to comply. Personally, I am not an attorney. Therefore, by definition, I lack the knowledge and expertise necessary to be able to draw a legal conclusion as to what exactly the law says. However, I don't know if that would be considered a valid defense. ignorance of the law is never a defense. |
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You're debate is over getting caught with a loaded unregistered weapon. Why would anyone be in a situation like this? Most people who decide not to register will keep the locked up at home or fire them on private property. If they're transporting them like most normal people they would keep them unloaded and ammunition separated from the firearm. It's pretty fucking obvious not to get caught/pulled over/whatever with a loaded illegal firearm lol Loaded is a word that has its own legal definition. You have a box of ammo in the same car as your rifle and your gun is arguably loaded. My range is a private club that doesn't sell ammo. As such, I am stuck bringing my ammo with me. Right? However in most cases the legal definition of loaded is something similar to this "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm" ... The legal definition of loaded, as pertains to Article 265, is 265.00 15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm. This is the definition under the penal law...not according to a city ordinance. So, if you want to keep your rifle locked away permanently in your gun safe, then you will only face exposure class E felony*--Just don't take it to the range with a box of ammo in your trunk 'cause the definition of loaded firearm doesn't need a round in the chamber. *not legal advice |
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The way the law is written, you have to draw a legal conclusion in order to comply. Personally, I am not an attorney. Therefore, by definition, I lack the knowledge and expertise necessary to be able to draw a legal conclusion as to what exactly the law says. However, I don't know if that would be considered a valid defense. Welcome to New York jurisprudence 
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The way the law is written, you have to draw a legal conclusion in order to comply. Personally, I am not an attorney. Therefore, by definition, I lack the knowledge and expertise necessary to be able to draw a legal conclusion as to what exactly the law says. However, I don't know if that would be considered a valid defense. ignorance of the law is never a defense. Agreed, but they seem to make allowances for ignorance in the text of the law. My point is in regards to the use of the word "knowingly". If ignorance is not a defense (which, again, I agree with you, it isn't), then how can that provision exist? Granted, we have to be talking about something you tried to make compliant. Not an EBR all decked out with all the "bad" features. Maybe with one of the "featureless" stocks or some type of fixed mag, etc. |
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If confiscation is everyones primary fear
I could see a lot of people picking up a AR15 lower over the next year(many dealers confirmed with the safe hot line lowers are legal still) and registering that while not registering their other AR15s. That way they can still shoot the registered lower at range etc while having undocumented ARs if NYS ever decides to confiscate. |
| It's my thread I want it to exist so you don't really get to decide. As I said I trying to get information to show people the ridiculousness of this law not to discuss whether people should or should not comply. That seems to me to be an individual decision. To give further background as the resident "gun guy" in town I have been asked to participate on a panel at our church. I am trying to make sure I understand all the details. |