Posted: 3/14/2010 6:11:29 PM EDT
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Flash hidder vs muzzle brake... lets open this can of worms once again..... My first AR, I bought, was a bushy, 14.5 with a PERMINALTY atached izzy flash hider... was bought from Gander Mt... cops have seen it, said its legal.... Now did a little digging, turns out the izzy flash hider was ruled by the BATF legal under the fed ban, thus making it legal under NY ban, Correct???.. now the A2 Flash hider that im lookin at has no slots cut on the lower half, ( thus makin it a brake right?? forces the gas up and out.. keeping your barrel down) can i weld this fucker on my barrel??? or is this a Flash hider, even though the one ruled by the BATF ( the Izzy )has slots a the 12, 3 ,6, and 9, o clock position... who do i talk to get get a legal answer on this, i dont want oh my buddies a cop he said its cool answer, The last thing i want to do on this build is weld something illegal on my fuckin barrel and end up fighting it in court...
Im sick of this shit, i dont even really care whats on the end of my goddamn barrel, i just dont want to end up in jail over some damn threads and a 30 dollar part that may or may not make the flash from my rifle when fired at night less noticeable... can i just find a fuckin nut with the same threads and slobber on some JB weld and say good enough??? how about i make a flash increaser can i do would that be too legal??? |
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Quoted:
Flash hidder vs muzzle brake... lets open this can of worms once again..... My first AR, I bought, was a bushy, 14.5 with a PERMINALTY atached izzy flash hider... was bought from Gander Mt... cops have seen it, said its legal.... Now did a little digging, turns out the izzy flash hider was ruled by the BATF legal under the fed ban, thus making it legal under NY ban, Correct???.. now the A2 Flash hider that im lookin at has no slots cut on the lower half, ( thus makin it a brake right?? forces the gas up and out.. keeping your barrel down) can i weld this fucker on my barrel??? or is this a Flash hider, even though the one ruled by the BATF ( the Izzy )has slots a the 12, 3 ,6, and 9, o clock position... who do i talk to get get a legal answer on this, i dont want oh my buddies a cop he said its cool answer, The last thing i want to do on this build is weld something illegal on my fuckin barrel and end up fighting it in court... Im sick of this shit, i dont even really care whats on the end of my goddamn barrel, i just dont want to end up in jail over some damn threads and a 30 dollar part that may or may not make the flash from my rifle when fired at night less noticeable... can i just find a fuckin nut with the same threads and slobber on some JB weld and say good enough??? how about i make a flash increaser can i do would that be too legal??? no, can't use the A2 Flash hider here in the Empire State |
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Quoted:
The solid bottom of an A2 hider is so it doesn't make a dust plume if you fire it prone. Still a flash hider with an open end. Actually, the .mil call the mil-spec A2 "flash supressor" a "compensator", but what kills it from being legal on a post ban is its dual designation/ use as a "grenade launcher", which also falls under the AW language. I believe there are some non-mil spec A2-appearing comps that are too small to accomodate grenades, so technically they are legal...... I'm going off of memory here, so feel free to correct me. |
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Seen the Cav Comp from Cavalry Arms?
http://www.cavalryarms.com/accessories.html |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The solid bottom of an A2 hider is so it doesn't make a dust plume if you fire it prone. Still a flash hider with an open end. Actually, the .mil call the mil-spec A2 "flash supressor" a "compensator", but what kills it from being legal on a post ban is its dual designation/ use as a "grenade launcher", which also falls under the AW language. I believe there are some non-mil spec A2-appearing comps that are too small to accomodate grenades, so technically they are legal...... I'm going off of memory here, so feel free to correct me. My post ban Colt has a compensator that looks like an A2 - but it is larger (.mil plastic barrel caps do not fit). It isn't screwed on - it looks like it is clamped onto the outside of the barrel. |
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A standard A2 flash suppressor would be illegal on a postban rifle because it's both a flash suppressor and a grenade launcher. A standard A2 flash suppressor attached to a 14.5 inch barrel does not meet the minimum 16" barrel length required under both federal and state law. You can't use JB weld or any other method not approved by the ATF to attach a barrel extender or muzzle device on a 11.5" or 14.5" barrel. You shouldn't use JB weld or any other method not approved by the ATF to attach a muzzle device to a 16" or longer threaded barrel on a postban rifle in NYS. |
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Quoted:
Flash hidder vs muzzle brake... lets open this can of worms once again..... My first AR, I bought, was a bushy, 14.5 with a PERMINALTY atached izzy flash hider... was bought from Gander Mt... cops have seen it, said its legal.... Now did a little digging, turns out the izzy flash hider was ruled by the BATF legal under the fed ban, thus making it legal under NY ban, Correct???.. now the A2 Flash hider that im lookin at has no slots cut on the lower half, ( thus makin it a brake right?? forces the gas up and out.. keeping your barrel down) can i weld this fucker on my barrel??? or is this a Flash hider, even though the one ruled by the BATF ( the Izzy )has slots a the 12, 3 ,6, and 9, o clock position... who do i talk to get get a legal answer on this, i dont want oh my buddies a cop he said its cool answer, The last thing i want to do on this build is weld something illegal on my fuckin barrel and end up fighting it in court... Im sick of this shit, i dont even really care whats on the end of my goddamn barrel, i just dont want to end up in jail over some damn threads and a 30 dollar part that may or may not make the flash from my rifle when fired at night less noticeable... can i just find a fuckin nut with the same threads and slobber on some JB weld and say good enough??? how about i make a flash increaser can i do would that be too legal??? I thought Aimless set the record straight plain as day in this thread he locked last night: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=488531 Flash hiders/suppressors are illegal in NY and you are committing a felony if you have one on a post ban build. There are plenty of legal muzzle brakes that you could use, including the PWS FSC556 which even has a BATFE letter certifying it is NOT a flash hider. If following the law is too much trouble for you, then don't complain if one day you find yourself with 3 hots and a cot. 
Bushmaster's "Izzy" comes in two flavors and you need to know the difference: Bushmaster Slip-on or Threaded Izzy Muzzle Brake (Legal for a NY compliant post ban build) 
A 5.56mm/.223 Caliber Muzzle Brake - production approved by the BATF - featuring four gas ports and a ribbed design to improve cooling. Machined of 4140 gun steel with a manganese phosphate finish - very effective in controlling muzzle rise. Slip-on/taper pinned version for barrels with plain crowned muzzles, and threaded model (shown left - threaded 1/2" x 28 T.p.I.) can be installed without regard to port location (timing) and will still be effective, however most are installed with ports positioned 12 - 3 - 6 - 9 o'clock. The slip-on, pinned version requires factoryinstallation or professional gunsmithing to drill and install the taper pin, andfor extra safety,highstrength Loctite should be used in addition to the taper pin. Bushmaster Izzy Brake for threaded barrels - requires lock washer. Bushmaster "Izzy" Flash Suppressor/Compensator (Not legal for a NY compliant post ban build) 
One of a series designed by a Bushmaster employee - features 3 gas ports, a machine turned ribbed design, and a closed bottom. It is bored to function as a Flash Suppressor, but also effectively controls muzzle rise in rapid fire. Quality gunsteel - manganese phosphate finished - 2 3/16" overall length - threaded 1/2" x 28 T.p.I. (threads per inch) for 5.56mm/.223 Rem. caliber barrels. Install using a 3/4" open end wrench and a crush washer or peel washer. |
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Just to stir the pot some more. 
The NY Attorney Generals office has never issued a Legal Opinion on how NY defines muzzle devices , and there has never been a NY Court decision with bearing on these devices. Until something happens - it's all a guessing game based on a DEFUNCT Federal Law. If a NY DA says a soup can stuck on your rifle is illegal you're goin to Court. 
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I believe you are thinking of a Bushmaster Izzy brake, not FH. They are different, as someone already pointed out above.
There are several methods that the BATFE approved for permanently attaching a muzzle device during the ban. JB Weld was not one of them. I would suggest ADCO The military A2 flash hider (which the mil calls a compensator oddly enough) is not considered a brake, and thus should not be used on any post-ban AR in NY. Generally speaking, a muzzle brake has a closed front while a flash hider has an open front. Paragraphs are your friend. |
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Quoted:
I believe you are thinking of a Bushmaster Izzy brake, not FH. They are different, as someone already pointed out above. There are several methods that the BATFE approved for permanently attaching a muzzle device during the ban. JB Weld was not one of them. I would suggest ADCO The military A2 flash hider (which the mil calls a compensator oddly enough) is not considered a brake, and thus should not be used on any post-ban AR in NY. Generally speaking, a muzzle brake has a closed front while a flash hider has an open front. Paragraphs are your friend. They called the A1 a flash suppressor - they call the A2 a compensator due to the flat part on the bottom that is supposed to compensate for muzzle climb. So you're saying that this is not AWB compliant? 
It is obviously not a mil spec compensator as it is held on with 4 sets of 3 miniature 'screws' around the outside. |
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Quoted:
Just to stir the pot some more.
The NY Attorney Generals office has never issued a Legal Opinion on how NY defines muzzle devices , and there has never been a NY Court decision with bearing on these devices. Until something happens - it's all a guessing game based on a DEFUNCT Federal Law. If a NY DA says a soup can stuck on your rifle is illegal you're goin to Court. Maybe that is why I see brand new 20" ARs at gun shows in NY state with permanently attached A2 flash hiders. The dealers said they were legal now and ruled a non flash hider. Just like with everything else you always get many different answers. |
| Good stuff hear, I Must aplogize, First of f, Im trying my hardest to make this build legal and often times I get soo pissed with these stupid laws that i tend to post out of anger, so the whole JB weld and Nut part, was merly my attempt at homur. I know that you cannot attach a A2 to a 14.5 to make it the legal length, (for the ppl assuming that its goin on a 14.5er) I was comparing the two since my 14.5er was bought in new york, and was pinned so i assumed that if i pinned the A2 on my new build it would be legal... Guess not, I orderd a BCM upper, for this build, and it came with the A2 on it.. since that is NoNo, ill have to take it off, and put somthing else on there perminalty..... However like someone stated, i have seen many sold in New York, with the A2 on it, and their Arguements were all the same, Its welded, and New York has no rulling over what is or isnt a FH..... So just for shits and gigles, how would one get someone to make a rulling on such thing, with out being arested and try to prove ones innoscense??? or would that do more damage then good??? ( i.e. get a rullin that states nothing on the end, no threads ect...) I will buy the right part, i will comply with the law, Im not trying to find a away around it, just asking questions here... |
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Quoted:
Flash hidder vs muzzle brake... lets open this can of worms once again..... My first AR, I bought, was a bushy, 14.5 with a PERMINALTY atached izzy flash hider... was bought from Gander Mt... cops have seen it, said its legal.... Now did a little digging, turns out the izzy flash hider was ruled by the BATF legal under the fed ban, thus making it legal under NY ban, Correct???.. now the A2 Flash hider that im lookin at has no slots cut on the lower half, ( thus makin it a brake right?? forces the gas up and out.. keeping your barrel down) can i weld this fucker on my barrel??? or is this a Flash hider, even though the one ruled by the BATF ( the Izzy )has slots a the 12, 3 ,6, and 9, o clock position... who do i talk to get get a legal answer on this, i dont want oh my buddies a cop he said its cool answer, The last thing i want to do on this build is weld something illegal on my fuckin barrel and end up fighting it in court... Im sick of this shit, i dont even really care whats on the end of my goddamn barrel, i just dont want to end up in jail over some damn threads and a 30 dollar part that may or may not make the flash from my rifle when fired at night less noticeable... can i just find a fuckin nut with the same threads and slobber on some JB weld and say good enough??? how about i make a flash increaser can i do would that be too legal??? I thought Aimless set the record straight plain as day in this thread he locked last night: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=488531 Flash hiders/suppressors are illegal in NY and you are committing a felony if you have one on a post ban build. There are plenty of legal muzzle brakes that you could use, including the PWS FSC556 which even has a BATFE letter certifying it is NOT a flash hider. If following the law is too much trouble for you, then don't complain if one day you find yourself with 3 hots and a cot.
Bushmaster's "Izzy" comes in two flavors and you need to know the difference: Bushmaster Slip-on or Threaded Izzy Muzzle Brake (Legal for a NY compliant post ban build) http://www.bushmaster.com/images/catalog/Parts_Accessories/Muzzle_Brakes_Suppressors/IZ-102660-PSTF.gif A 5.56mm/.223 Caliber Muzzle Brake - production approved by the BATF - featuring four gas ports and a ribbed design to improve cooling. Machined of 4140 gun steel with a manganese phosphate finish - very effective in controlling muzzle rise. Slip-on/taper pinned version for barrels with plain crowned muzzles, and threaded model (shown left - threaded 1/2" x 28 T.p.I.) can be installed without regard to port location (timing) and will still be effective, however most are installed with ports positioned 12 - 3 - 6 - 9 o'clock. The slip-on, pinned version requires factoryinstallation or professional gunsmithing to drill and install the taper pin, andfor extra safety,highstrength Loctite should be used in addition to the taper pin. Bushmaster Izzy Brake for threaded barrels - requires lock washer. Bushmaster "Izzy" Flash Suppressor/Compensator (Not legal for a NY compliant post ban build) http://www.bushmaster.com/images/catalog/Parts_Accessories/Muzzle_Brakes_Suppressors/IZ-102660-FH.gif One of a series designed by a Bushmaster employee - features 3 gas ports, a machine turned ribbed design, and a closed bottom. It is bored to function as a Flash Suppressor, but also effectively controls muzzle rise in rapid fire. Quality gunsteel - manganese phosphate finished - 2 3/16" overall length - threaded 1/2" x 28 T.p.I. (threads per inch) for 5.56mm/.223 Rem. caliber barrels. Install using a 3/4" open end wrench and a crush washer or peel washer. The first one is the one i have on my 14.5er, Izzy with the non- open( closed?) end thank you for posting that pic, I did not know that the open end was what pretty much what makes it a flash hider.. this is sooo retarted in the grand scheme of things, oooooo your flash is a little less, its still as loud, bulllet still as deadly....I know I know the cops wanna be able to see where the flash is comin from at night , haha try the caddie with the rims and the 4 homies in, wait thats profiling... and we cant have that now can we, so lets just punish everybody :) |
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Quoted: The first one is the one i have on my 14.5er, Izzy with the non- open( closed?) end thank you for posting that pic, I did not know that the open end was what pretty much what makes it a flash hider.. this is sooo retarted in the grand scheme of things, oooooo your flash is a little less, its still as loud, bulllet still as deadly....I know I know the cops wanna be able to see where the flash is comin from at night , haha try the caddie with the rims and the 4 homies in, wait thats profiling... and we cant have that now can we, so lets just punish everybody :) Originally Posted By livin_in_sin85: However like someone stated, i have seen many sold in New York, with the A2 on it, and their Arguements were all the same, Its welded, and New York has no rulling over what is or isnt a FH..... So just for shits and gigles, how would one get someone to make a rulling on such thing, with out being arested and try to prove ones innoscense??? or would that do more damage then good??? ( i.e. get a rullin that states nothing on the end, no threads ect...) I will buy the right part, i will comply with the law, Im not trying to find a away around it, just asking questions here... The purpose of the Federal and NYS assault weapon bans were/are simply a means to ban rifles/pistols/shotguns based on meaningless characteristics and nothing more. The primary purpose of a flash hider/suppressor is to avoid being blinded by the flash in low light conditions. It really doesn't do much if anything to reduce the flash signature that can be seen to determine where the shot(s) are coming from. The NYAG does not have the authority to set standards or define what firearms are legal to possess in NYS nor does any other .gov agency have that authority. Anyone that tells you that a standard A2 flash suppressor is not a flash suppressor/grenade launcher is talking out of their ass. |