Posted: 7/28/2009 1:52:33 PM EDT
|
Does the new ATF ruling regarding pin and welding of muzzle devices for NFA barrels affect post-ban configurations of Title I firearms here in NY/NJ? Thoughts?
NFA Handbook changes
27 July 2009 The April 2009 edition of the NFA Handbook has removed pin & weld from the methods that are allowed to extend barrels to the minimum (16″ rifle, 18″ shotgun) length to avoid paying an SBR/SBS tax. What happens to the millions of barrels out there that were pinned and welded? Time will tell. Sections 2.1.1 and 2.1.3 are the sections of interest; section 2.1.3 states: Note: Any muzzle attachment such as a compensator, choke device, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a shotgun barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds or high temperature silver solder. This is a change from previous years. Please be aware of this change if you own a (now contraband) barrel or are considering a new barrel in the future. |
| Coupled with the recent DHS report that identifies us as potential domestic terrorists, this is another step by the Obama Thugocracy to clear the path to send us all to the 2009 versions of these. |
|
Quoted:
Does the new ATF ruling regarding pin and welding of muzzle devices for NFA barrels affect post-ban configurations of Title I firearms here in NY/NJ? Thoughts? Those of us with 14.5" barrels who have had muzzle brakes pinned and blind-welded (ala the job ADCO has done for many of us) are now FEDERAL CRIMINALS under this newly revised set of NFA rules. Here's the link to the NFA Handbook so you understand why you're being dragged off in the middle of the night to Stalag Camp Obama when it happens. And all by administrative edict. What a country we live in, huh? 
|
| When you follow the LINK, section 2.1.3 on rifles, the explanation refers to shotguns. In fact, it's an exact copy from section 2.1.1. I'm thinking this is a misprint or someone's "cut and paste" mistake. |
|
Quoted:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:
Does the new ATF ruling regarding pin and welding of muzzle devices for NFA barrels affect post-ban configurations of Title I firearms here in NY/NJ? Thoughts? Those of us with 14.5" barrels who have had muzzle brakes pinned and blind-welded (ala the job ADCO has done for many of us) are now FEDERAL CRIMINALS under this newly revised set of NFA rules. Not having used adco myself, am I to understad what they do is blind pin the muzzle brake to the barrel and then put a spot of weld over the pin to prevent removal?? If this is the case, and the rules have changed, then why not get out your propane torch and solder the damn thin on around it's full circumference?? it's nothing more than the solder used to fit copper pipes together when doing plumbing work. |
|
Propane gets to 1100 degrees? This is the required temperature to comply with ATF rules. As I understand it, there will be a need to refinish the barrel afterwords.
I still question whether this has an affect on us with 16" and longer barrels that have brakes pinned and welded on. |
|
Quoted:
Not having used adco myself, am I to understad what they do is blind pin the muzzle brake to the barrel and then put a spot of weld over the pin to prevent removal?? YES If this is the case, and the rules have changed, then why not get out your propane torch and solder the damn thin on around it's full circumference?? it's nothing more than the solder used to fit copper pipes together when doing plumbing work. Common solder alloys are mixtures of tin and lead, respectively:
* 63/37: melts at 183 °C (361.4 °F) (eutectic: the only mixture that melts at a point, instead of over a range) * 60/40: melts between 183–190 °C (361–374 °F) * 50/50: melts between 185–215 °C (365–419 °F) Lead-free solders are suggested anywhere children may come into contact with (since children are likely to place things into their mouths), or for outdoor use where rain and other precipitation may wash the lead into the groundwater. Lead-free solder alloys melt around 250 °C (482 °F), depending on their composition. |
|
Quoted:
Propane gets to 1100 degrees? This is the required temperature to comply with ATF rules. As I understand it, there will be a need to refinish the barrel afterwords. I still question whether this has an affect on us with 16" and longer barrels that have brakes pinned and welded on. Unless the states adopt Federal rules (by legislative process), I would not think so. But for those with 14.5" barrels and pinned and blind-welded brakes, it may be another story, I'm afraid. |
|
Quoted: Those of us with 14.5" barrels who have had muzzle brakes pinned and blind-welded (ala the job ADCO has done for many of us) are now FEDERAL CRIMINALS under this newly revised set of NFA rules. Here's the link to the NFA Handbook so you understand why you're being dragged off in the middle of the night to Stalag Camp Obama when it happens. And all by administrative edict. What a country we live in, huh? More likely a simple oversight than some conspiracy to fill every prison cell in the U.S with pinned/welded muzzle devices felons. Why not call ADCO and see what they have to say about the revised NFA handbook. |
|
Quoted:
More likely a simple oversight than some conspiracy to fill every prison cell in the U.S with pinned/welded muzzle devices felons. Why not call ADCO and see what they have to say about the revised NFA handbook. I did just that, earlier this afternoon, after calling and getting a message to send an email, that phone messages wouldn't be returned. I'll post the reply from Steve@ADCO when it arrives. And maybe I'm a touch more cynical than you, but I wouldn't put an underhanded move like this past our vehemently anti AG Holder |
|
They made a simple mistake when editing the handbook mixing up the shotgun and rifle sections. From the 2007 handbook: 2.1.1 Shotgun. A shotgun is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.10 A shotgun subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. | 15 inches _ | The length of the vast majority of shotgun barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the breech on a line parallel to the axis of the bore. In the case of a shotgun having a chamber(s) not an integral part of the barrel, such as a revolving shotgun, the barrel length is measured from the muzzle to the front of the separate cylinder and does not include the chamber. NOTE: Any muzzle attachment such as a compensator, choke device, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a shotgun barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds or high temperature silver solder. 10 26 2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger.11 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. | 12 inches ________| The length of the majority of rifle barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed breech on a line parallel to the axis of the bore. In the case of a rifle having a chamber(s) not an integral part of the barrel, such as a revolving rifle, the barrel length is measured from the muzzle to the front of the separate cylinder and does not include the chamber. NOTE: Any muzzle attachment such as a flash suppressor, compensator, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a rifle barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds of high temperature silver solder. Depending on the dimensions of a particular barrel it may also be possible to permanently affix a muzzle attachment by drilling a blind hole through the attachment and into the barrel wall. A steel pin that is flush with or below the outside diameter of the attachment is then inserted and the hole welded closed. 11 26 From the 2009 handbook: 2.1.1 Shotgun A shotgun is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.10 A shotgun subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. | 15 inches _ | The length of the vast majority of shotgun barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the breech on a line parallel to the axis of the bore. In the case of a shotgun having a chamber(s) not an integral part of the barrel, such as a revolving shotgun, the barrel length is measured from the muzzle to the front of the separate cylinder and does not include the chamber. NOTE: Any muzzle attachment such as a compensator, choke device, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a shotgun barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds or high temperature silver solder. 10 26 2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger.11 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. | 12 inches ________| The length of the vast majority of shotgun barrels is measured from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the breech on a line parallel to the axis of the bore. In the case of a shotgun having a chamber(s) not an integral part of the barrel, such as a revolving shotgun, the barrel length is measured from the muzzle to the front of the separate cylinder and does not include the chamber. NOTE: Any muzzle attachment such as a compensator, choke device, muzzle break, etc., is not included in the barrel length measurement unless the attachment is permanently affixed to the barrel. Acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device to a shotgun barrel are deep penetrating, full fusion, gas or electric steel seam welds or high temperature silver solder. 11 26 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
it's nothing more than the solder used to fit copper pipes together when doing plumbing work. "1100° F Silver solder" is actually a silver brazing alloy and requires a much higher temp than sweat soldering copper pipes. Yes it is. But a mapp gas torch should work. If not, and this may be overkill, but there are acetylene torches available that will work. I'll try to pick up some silver solder and give it a go with the different fuels.... |
|
Received from Steve @ ADCO:
RE: new NFA rule from the ATF Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:50 AM From:"steve" <[email protected]> We are going to continue business as usual http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=130&t=177662 |
|
Quoted:
It's an obvious error in the revised NFA handbook where they screwed up the rifle section by repeating the shotgun section. You obviously can't blind pin weld a shotgun barrel so that method of muzzle attachment is not included for shotgun barrels. So you think this was an honest error? How can a dishonest agency make an honest mistake? |
|
The JBTs have issued a corrected NFA Handbook
Page 18 of the pdf (Page 6 of the doc) is the relevant section |