Posted: 7/11/2008 2:37:24 PM EDT
|
So I'm pretty sure switch blades are no-go in NY, right? But what about "assisted openers"? The blade I'm specifically looking at is the SOG Twitch II. I actually found a YouTube video of a review of it, and started looking it up. It seems like a quality little knife, and everything I've read about it has referred to it as an "assisted opener", not a "switchblade" (hopefully there is a difference in how NY law looks at it  ). If it matters, here's the video of it: click hereI have 2 questions: 1. Are these legal in NY? 2. What's are the laws in NY regarding the carry of these, or any kind of pocket knife, in your pocket in public? |
|
|
OK, glad to hear my options are open, and they are legal. I'll check into the ones you mentioned too. I'm not dead set on the SOG, it's just the 1st one I looked up. I don't own any knives, and figured I should get one. So I'm still learning and researching. Now, about my other question, anyone have any info? Can I carry one of these just about anywhere, besides the obvious places? Or is it considered a "concealed weapon"? Like I said, I'm just now starting to get into knives and know pretty much nothing about them, or the legalities  .
|
|
NYS has no length restrictions, or concealment restrictions. you can open carry a big bowie on your back like crocodile dundee if you so please. automatic knives are legal for hunting and fishing purposes with a nys hunting license. NYC requires that the blade be less than 4", and the entire knife must be concealed. |
OK, so would the SOG, Leek, or other "assisted openers" be considered "automatic knives"? I don't hunt, and I don't fish really, so the hunting license is out. Just so people know, I'm talking about NY State, not NYC. |
|
So after hearing about the Kershaw blades, I looked them up, and wow, I'm loving the prices. www.kershaw-knives.net/ Now, to pick one I like  .
|
|
This is a great little utility knife for daily carry. It's built like a tank and is only about $30 at Wal-Mart. KERSHAW SCALLION - 1620H3 SPECIFICATIONS: Steel: 420HC stainless-steel Handle: 6061-T6 anodized aluminum Blade Length: 2 1/4 in. (5.8 cm) Closed Length: 3 1/2 in. (8.4 cm) Overall Length: N/A Weight: 2.3 oz. 
|
| On the question of blade length, with a fixed blade knife where is the measurement taken? From tip to the end of the edge, or the length of the blade from tip to the top of the grip? I have several fixed blade single edge knives where the sharpened edge does not extend all the way from the tip to the top of the grip. What should be measured for the 4 inch rule? |
|
PROTOCOL FOR MEASURING KNIFE BLADE LENGTH www.akti.org/PDFS/AKTIProto.pdf |
|
The CRKT M16-13 Titanium is another good utility knife at less then $75. ETA: The M16 is not an assisted opening knife. It uses a flipper thingy to open the knife with one hand. A knife that can't be opened with one hand is essentially useless in an emergency rescue scenario if your other hand/arm is injured. www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2781 |
read stipulation C... law enforcement agencies are encouraged. That definition might be the norm, and the safe bet, but its not binding. Is there anything in NYS case law or statute that defines blade length? |
|
I ended up going to Dicks today, and picked up a Kershaw. It was the last one they had. It was actually the one on display in the case, and had no box, so they let me have for a little under $30 out the door. I'm probably gonna pick up another kind sooner or later, after some more reading/looking around. This is the one I got: www.kershaw-knives.net/Kershaw-Ken-Onion-Needs-Work-KS1820.htm |
Looks good!  If you want to get another one, get a Leek. They are perfect for EDC. |
|
NY law, as of 2006, there might be revisions New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or (5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States... Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor. - Section 265.00 4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife has blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device. 5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5-b. "Metal knuckle knife" means a weapon that, when closed, cannot function as a set of metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can function as both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife. - 265.04. It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of sixteen to possess any... dangerous knife... A person who violates the provisions of this section shall be adjudged a juvenile delinquent. [Found unconstitutionally vague by Superior Court, 1982; finding reversed by Court of Appeals, 1983] - Section 265.10... 1. Any person who manufactures or causes to be manufactured... any switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife... is guilty of a class A misdemeanor... 4. Any person who disposes of any of the weapons, instruments or appliances specified in subdivision one of section 265.01, except a firearm, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and he is guilty of a class D felony if he has been previously convicted of any crime. - Section 265.15 Presumption of possession, unlawful intent, and defacement... 2. The presence in any stolen vehicle of any weapon... specified in sections 265.01... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... 3. The presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a public omnibus, of any firearm... gravity knife, switchblade knife... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... except... (a) if such weapon... is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; b) is such weapon... is found in an automobile which is being operated for hire by a duly licensed driver... then such presumption shall not apply to the driver... 4... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another. S 265.20 Exemptions. a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to: 1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05 and 270.05 by the following: (a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the same. (b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section 1.20 of the criminal procedure law. (c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal procedure law. (d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law, regulation or order to possess the same. (e) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of the same is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation and testing under the requirements of such contract. (f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor, administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the property is received by such official within two years of the delivery of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter. 2. Possession of a machine-gun, large capacity ammunition feeding device, firearm, switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife, billy or blackjack by a warden, superintendent, headkeeper or deputy of a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or detained as witnesses in criminal cases, in pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by regulation or order to possess the same... 6. Possession of a switchblade or gravity knife for use while hunting, trapping or fishing by a person carrying a valid license issued to him pursuant to section 11-0713 of the environmental conservation law... 8. The manufacturer of machine-guns, assault weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, disguised guns, pilum ballistic knives, switchblade or gravity knives, billies or blackjacks as merchandise and the disposal and shipment thereof direct to a regularly constituted or appointed state or municipal police department, sheriff, policeman or other peace officer, or to a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, or to the military service of this state or of the United States... * New York Case Law: - Knife... was not a "gravity knife"... even though blade of knife could be released from its sheath by flick of the wrist; in order to lock blade of knife in open position, two additional steps were required... (1989). - Butterfly or "Balisong" knife, a folding knife with a split handle, did not have blade released by force of gravity or application of centrifugal force, and did not constitute a "gravity knife"... (1987). - "A bayonet was within class of weapons designated as 'any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon'.... (1937) - "Under rule of ejusdem generis [of the same kind]... an ice pick was a 'dangerous weapon'... (1948) - "Evidence that defendant wielded butcher knife in presence of others was sufficient to support charge..." (1987) - "...possession of knife 15 to 18 inches long was legally sufficient to establish prima facie case of carrying dangerous weapon as felony..." (1963) - "Accused's possession of knife in case attached to his belt, with long handle protruding and case sheathing blade concealed inside accused's trousers, did not constitute violation... absent evidence of design on accused's part to use the knife unlawfully." (1974) - "That parolee was found in possession of straight razor could not, without more, establish his possession of dangerous instrument or deadly weapon..." (1981) - "The possession of a razor by a barber for use in his trade, even if it was on his person, was not within... this section." (1914) - "Paint brush found in possession of a housepainter while on his way home from work was not the kind of instrument covered by... this section, prohibiting the carrying of a dangerous weapon." (1962) http://www.knife-expert.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- NEW YORK CITY LAWS: Courtesy: Alex Boriqua 11/23/1999 http://home.att.net/~a.boriqua/Recieved_letter.htm Received from: Office of the Queens District Attorney of Queens County Queens criminal Courts Building 125-01 Queens Blvd. Kew Gardens NY 11415 Cover letter: As per your request the law strictly prohibits a person from carrying any type of knife with a blade of 4" or over (Four) in length. Enclosed is a copy (highlighted) of the statute. Signed: Mary A. Moris A.D.A Chap. 1 Public Safety 10-133 Historical Note: Formerly 436-5.1 10-133 Possession of knives or instruments. A. Legislative findings. It is hereby declared and found that possession in public places, streets and parks of the city, of large knives is a menace to the public health, peace, safety and welfare of the people of the city; that the possession in public places, streets and parks of such knives has resulted in the commission of many homicides, robberies, maimings and assaults of and upon the people of the city; that this condition encourages and fosters the commission of crimes and contributes to juvenile delinquency, youth crime and gangsterism; that unless the possession or carrying in public places, streets and parks of the city of such knives without a lawful purpose is prohibited, there is danger of an increase in crimes of violence and other conditions detrimental to public peace, safety and welfare. It is further declared and found that the wearing or carrying of knives in open view in public places while such knives are not being used for a lawful purpose is unnecessary and threatening to the public and should be prohibited. B. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street or park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more. C. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or park to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually using suck knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of this section. D. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this sections shall not apply to (1) persons in the military service on the state of New York when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations issued by the chief of stall to the governor; (2) police officers and peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law; (3) participants in special events when authorized by the police commissioner (4) persons on the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law; or (5) any person displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this section when such a knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife; or (b) is displayed or carried by a member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para military unit or veterans organization, to from or during a meeting, parade or other performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the carrying of suck knife or (c) is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase in such a manner as not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or (d) is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl scouts of America or similar organization or society and such display or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such organization or society. E. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars or by imprisonment not exceeding fifteen days or by both such fine and imprisonment. Case notes: This section promotes a legitimate governmental objective and is not unconstitutionally vague or an improper exercise of the city's police power.------ People v Ortiz 125 Misc. 2d 318 [1984] 10-134 Prohibition on sale of certain knives A. Legislative findings. It is hereby declared and found that the possession on public places, streets and parks of the city of folding knives which lock upon opening, is a menace to the public health, peace, safety and welfare of the people of the city; that the possession in public places, streets and parks of such knives has resulted in the commission of many homicides, robberies, maimings and assaults of and upon the people of the city, that this condition encourages and fosters the commission of crimes, and contributes to juvenile delinquency, youth crime and gangsterism; that is this situation is not addressed, then there is a danger of an increase in crimes of violence and other conditions detrimental to public peace, safety and welfare. It has been found that folding knives with a blade of four (4) inches or more that locks in an open position are designed and used almost exclusively for the purpose of stabbing or threat thereof. Therefore for the safety of the city, such weapons should be prohibited from sale within the jurisdiction of the city of New York. B. It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale within the jurisdiction of the city of New York any folding knife with a blade length of four or more inches which is so constructed that when it is opened it is locked in an open position and cannot be closed without depressing or moving a release mechanism. C. Exempt from this section are imported and exporters or merchants who ship or receive locking folding knives, with a blade length of four or more inches, in bulk, which knives are scheduled to travel or have traveled in the course of international, interstate, or intrastate commerce to a point outside the city. Such bulk shipments shall remain in their original shipping package, unopened, except for inspection and possible subdivision for further movement in interstate or intrastate commerce to a point outside the city. D. Violation of this section shall be an offense punishable by a fine of not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750) or by imprisonment not exceeding sixteen days (16) or both such fine and imprisonment. Any person violating this section shall be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed one thousand dollar for each violation. |
|
Some more legal mumbo jumbo case law: Matter of Jamie D., 59 NY2d 589 (1983). Whether a "knife" is a "dangerous" knife may be determined on the basis of three alternative considerations: one, its own characteristics which show that it is primarily intended for use as a weapon; second, a modification, which converts what would otherwise be a utensil into a weapon; and third, the circumstances of the possession which may reveal that the possessor considers it a weapon and not a utilitarian tool. http://decisions.courts.state.ny.us/ad3/Decisions/2007/100065.pdf Defendant's argument that his conviction for criminal possession of a weapon is not supported by legally sufficient evidence is dependent on acceptance of his argument that his knife was not a "dangerous knife" within the meaning of the statute (see Penal Law § 265.01 [2]). However, a knife "may be considered a 'dangerous knife' within the meaning of Penal Law § 265.01 (2) when the circumstances of its possession, including the behavior of its possessor, demonstrate that the possessor himself considered it a weapon, even if the knife might not otherwise be defined as a 'dangerous knife' by reason of its inherent characteristics" (Matter of Sean R., 33 AD3d 925, 926 [2006]; see Matter of Jamie D., 59 NY2d 589, 591 [1983]). Moreover, defendant's mere possession of the knife, while displaying it in an effort to instill fear, was itself presumptive evidence of his intent to use it unlawfully (see Matter of Sean R., supra at 926; Matter of Jesse QQ., 243 AD2d 788, 789 [1997], lv denied 91 NY2d 804 [1997]). The testimony of the male victim that defendant gave him the choice of leaving or being killed, while he stood over him with the knife in his hand, amply supports the jury's determination. http://www.nysda.org/CDSweb/show_document.asp?doc_handle=6088404&req=circumstance Juveniles (Delinquency) JUV; 230(15) Weapons (Dangerous Weapons WEA; 385(7) (22) Control Law) (General) Title[ In re Patrick L, ] Cite[ 665 NYS2d 70 (1st Dept 1997) ] The juvenile defendant was found to be delinquent after it was determined that the box cutter and razor blade he was carrying at the time of his arrest for marijuana possession constituted “dangerous knives.” Holding: To be a “dangerous knife” under PL 265.05, the instrument at issue must be either an obvious weapon, an ordinary object that has been modified in order to serve as a weapon, or an object that may function as a weapon under the specific circumstances of its possession. See Matter of Jamie D, 59 NY2d 589, 592-93. Although the defendant possessed ordinary objects, the defendant possessed the objects while engaging in drug activity. Such a circumstance+ is not determinative, but “raises a suspicion of misbehavior” since “teenagers who are involved in buying drugs may be more likely to carry weapons.” In characterizing the razor blade as a “dangerous knife” the determinative fact was that the defendant carried the single blade in his wallet, indicating that it was not possessed for its ordinary, common use. The box cutter was also determined to be a “dangerous knife” because the New York City ordinance banning the sale of box cutters to juveniles supports the inference that juveniles may use box cutters as weapons. Order affirmed. (Family Ct, New York Co [Sosa-Lintner, J]) |
As long as it was concealed, you were not committing any other criminal act and the blade length is less than 4" it is a utility knife and not a weapon or dangerous knife. On what basis are they frisking you and searching for a concealed weapon? What would they charge you with? |
Sorry for the late post. They say 4’’ is legal but it also depends on your intention and purpose. I would call the state police and ask for an interpretation of the knife law; they would know the law better than your locals. |
I have no idea how they would find it. If they suspect you of anything they follow you until they find a reason to frisk you. For example you put a foot in the street without the walk sign. They can give you a summons for jay walking and frisk you. If they happen to come across such a knife then they'll arrest you. I explained the law to them and offered to look it up and show it to them. Their response was they would arrest you anyway and let someone else sort it out since it's up to five hours of overtime for them and no sweat off their backs if the guy gets off. |
| 2 of my friends have been stopped and questioned about knives under 4" in length that have been in their pockets with the clip showing outside their pockets. One was arrested and detained. The other was asked his occupation, the told them "carpenter" and was told thanks you can go. I guess it depends on the officer ? |
|
The 4" thing is for New York City. |