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Posted: 2/24/2006 5:46:14 AM EDT
From the NY Daily News:

Quote:
Shoot to hurt, pol urges cops

Daily News Exclusive

BY JOE MAHONEY
DAILY NEWS ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF

ALBANY - Sen. David Paterson is pushing a bill that would require cops to shoot to wound, rather than using deadly force - drawing outrage from officers.

The bill also would create a new provision for second-degree manslaughter that would be reserved specifically for an officer who "uses more than the minimal amount necessary" to stop a crime suspect.

Paterson, who is on Eliot Spitzer's ticket as lieutenant governor, has reintroduced the bill twice since first sponsoring it in 2001, refusing to let it die.

In a memo urging its passage, Paterson wrote: "There is no justification for terminating another's life when a less extreme measure may accomplish the same objective."

Current law gives cops a wide berth to use deadly force when a suspect presents a danger to another person's life.

Paterson (D-Harlem) wrote that a police officer, under his legislation, "would have to try toshoot a suspect in the arm or the leg."

"This bill shows absolutely no understanding of just how difficult it is for a police officer when they get into situations requiring the use of deadly force," John Grebert, director of the New York State Association of Chiefs of Police, told the Daily News.

His sentiment was echoed by Dan DeFedericis, president of the New York State Troopers PBA, who said: "We are definitely opposed to this bill ... and we strongly believe it could endanger the lives of police officers and innocent civilians."

While Spitzer already has the endorsement of the New York City Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, that group's Albany lobbyist, John Poklemba, said, "This bill is very ill conceived. I can't imagine any police agencies not being opposed to it."

Paterson told The News last night that his bill would safeguard the public. He explained that he wrote the bill in response to the acquittal of four NYPD officers charged in the 1999 shooting death of the unarmed Amadou Diallo in the Bronx.

"Many people were surprised the officers weren't guilty of something, criminally negligent homicide or something that involved some negligence," he said. "I thought I was writing the bill that really mirrored what the department rules are."

A Spitzer spokesman declined to comment.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:55:42 AM EDT
There has got to be something in our water here in NY!!!!!

Our entire legislative branch needs a brain enema

No One shoots to kill, you shoot to LIVE - that goes for police and civies.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:08:51 AM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=9&t=224610
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:11:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:17:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!



I hope Pat Lynch is happy with his main man Spitzer. Has he endorsed Hillary yet?

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:36:34 AM EDT
Amazing.

Wonder how many top cops will photo-op this bill with the Dims?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:30:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:39:32 AM EDT
I sent this to Bill O'reilly. Maybe it will get on the O'Reilly Factor.

Whisky19
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:14:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 9:52:06 AM EDT by ICU]
Sound like a great bill. The State putting LE @ a disatvantage just like the rest of us. Were all on equal footing again. Some cops want to back the laws that stomp my 2nd & take pics w/ the scum that sponsor these laws... Right back @ ya man! To those LE that dont sponsor the AW & dont think they are the only ones responsible enough to carry, my sympathies. Welcome to the civvy world where our problems are now your problems. -Justin

Edit to replace E w/ O. Cant spel fer shite.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:14:42 AM EDT
ICU I echo your sentiments exactly. I just had trouble finding a way to put it into words, but you did so for me.

I'm right there with ya bro!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 11:49:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ICU:
Sound like a great bill. The State putting LE @ a disatvantage just like the rest of us. Were all on equal footing again. Some cops want to back the laws that stomp my 2nd & take pics w/ the scum that sponsor these laws... Right back @ ya man! To those LE that dont sponsor the AW & dont think they are the only ones responsible enough to carry, my sympathies. Welcome to the civvy world where our problems are now your problems. -Justin

Edit to replace E w/ O. Cant spel fer shite.



I feel the same way. Hopefully the selfish LEO's who stand behind stupid gun laws will find out the hard way that these laws will eventually bite them in the ass, whether they find that they cant carry when they retire or that the officials will cripple their fighting ability while on the force. Just wait till they take their service pistols and only let them use tasers, then they'll regret going to those meetings to pass AW bans and pistol restrictions.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:38:59 PM EDT
Still supporting the Spitzer/Patterson ticket P.O. Lynch?

"Mr. Paterson's bill, which is intended to protect minority criminal suspects from being killed by police officers unnecessarily, has provoked a furious reaction from New York State and city police groups, which say the senator's legislation would handcuff police officers and ultimately leave the public in greater danger."


A Rift Opens For Spitzer, Paterson

BY JACOB GERSHMAN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
February 24, 2006

URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/28102

A push by Eliot Spitzer's gubernatorial running mate, David Paterson, to restrict police officers from using deadly physical force in the line of fire has opened a rift between the Harlem state senator and the state attorney general.

Yesterday, Mr. Spitzer, the leading Democratic candidate for governor, disavowed a bill introduced by Mr. Paterson that would prohibit police officers from shooting suspects with the intent to kill and would hold the officers liable for second-degree manslaughter, which carries a maximum prison sentence of 15 years.

"Eliot is not in favor of this revision to the penal code," the campaign manager for Mr. Spitzer, Ryan Toohey, said. "When David agreed to be Eliot's running mate, we knew they wouldn't be in lockstep agreement with each other. That's part of how good relationships work."

Mr. Paterson's bill, which is intended to protect minority criminal suspects from being killed by police officers unnecessarily, has provoked a furious reaction from New York State and city police groups, which say the senator's legislation would handcuff police officers and ultimately leave the public in greater danger.

Conceivably, under Mr. Paterson's law, the heralded police officer who killed the man who shot to death City Council Member James Davis on July 23, 2003, would be indicted for second-degree manslaughter.

Police groups also point to the recent slew of shootings, some of them fatal, of New York City police officers as evidence of the need for policeman to have the leeway to use deadly force to protect themselves.

The head of the Sergeants Benevolent Association, which represents 10,000 active and retired New York City police sergeants, yesterday described Mr. Paterson's bill as "lunacy."

"It's poor judgment on the part of Paterson to even initiate something like this," said the president of the association, Edward Mullins, who said he was writing a letter to Mr. Paterson denouncing the bill.

"In light of the police shootings and terrorism, why in the world would you create a bill that would actually tie the hands of police officers?... I see lunacy in creating a bill like this," he said. The heads of the New York State Association of Chiefs of Police and the New York State Troopers Police Benevolent Association also have criticized Mr. Paterson's bill, the Daily News reported.

Mr. Paterson, an influential black politician who has served as the senate's minority leader since 2002 and who was tapped by Mr. Spitzer to be the attorney general's lieutenant governor running mate last month, is seeking to amend the state penal code by putting severe restrictions on the amount of force police officers can use in the course of defending themselves from bodily harm, or detaining a suspect who is resisting arrest or trying to escape.

Under Mr. Paterson's legislation, police officers would be permitted to use the minimal amount of force to "needed to stop" a suspect. For instance, according to the bill memo, an officer who is under attack would be required to shoot a suspect in the leg or arm if such actions would stop the suspect from harming the officer or escaping.

"Further, the number of times an officer shoots a person should not exceed the minimal number necessary to stop the person. If one shot accomplishes the purpose, it is neither necessary or appropriate for an officer to empty his barrel," the bill memo states.

The Daily News reported that Mr. Paterson authored the bill in reaction to the acquittals in 2000 of four police officers who shot and killed an unarmed West African immigrant, Amadou Diallo, firing 41 bullets and striking Diallo 19 times. The incident was triggered when a police officer mistook a black wallet Diallo was carrying for a gun.

"There is no justification for terminating another's life when a less extreme measure may accomplish the same objective," the bill memo states.

As the law stands, a police officer can use deadly physical force if a suspect is trying to kill him and the officer cannot safely retreat. An officer is also permitted to kill a suspect who is resisting arrest for a felony involving the use of physical force against a person. An officer is also permitted to kill a suspect who is attempting to escape and possesses a firearm or deadly weapon.

Moments after the Othniel Askew shot and fatally wounded Council Member Davis in the balcony of City Council chambers, the officer, Richard Burt, took aim from below amid the chaos and fired a reported six shots at Askew, striking him four times and killing him instantly. Mayor Bloomberg promoted Mr. Burt to detective and declared him a city hero who saved many lives.

Mr. Burt would be guilty of manslaughter if a jury found that he fired more bullets than he needed to stop Askew or could have stopped him without actually killing him.

A spokesman for Mr. Paterson did not return calls for comment yesterday.

Since Mr. Spitzer announced Mr. Paterson as his running mate, other sharp policy differences have emerged between the two politicians. In particular, Mr. Paterson has said he opposes the death penalty for "spiritual reasons," even for convicted terrorists, while Mr. Spitzer is a proponent of capital punishment. Mr. Paterson has also said he favors tax increases that Mr. Spitzer opposes.

A close observer of Albany politics, Alan Chartock, a SUNY professor of political science emeritus, said he doesn't view Mr. Paterson's bill as a political liability for Mr. Spitzer.

"This is a rather refreshing change from the Pataki administration, where everybody has to march in lockstep," he said. "If it were the other way around, it could be a problem. Everybody knows the governor is the key decision maker in this."
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:21:42 PM EDT
We have got to BAN POLITICIANS.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:30:28 PM EDT
you hit the nail on the head ...you can;t make this stuff up

Originally Posted By ICU:
Sound like a great bill. The State putting LE @ a disatvantage just like the rest of us. Were all on equal footing again. Some cops want to back the laws that stomp my 2nd & take pics w/ the scum that sponsor these laws... Right back @ ya man! To those LE that dont sponsor the AW & dont think they are the only ones responsible enough to carry, my sympathies. Welcome to the civvy world where our problems are now your problems. -Justin

Edit to replace E w/ O. Cant spel fer shite.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:23:40 PM EDT
I really don't have to tell you poor schmucks how much I'm trying not to laugh, do I?

Once, a couple of years ago, I drew and shot my Glock 17 at a Full Sized silhouette target about 5 yards away. I fired as fast as I could squeeze the trigger. Of the 17 rounds fired most of them missed anything critical. More than a couple only hit the white edges of the target. In real life, had I shot a real person, while I may have hit the person several times, unless I managed to hit something critical, said person might have managed to run away and lived. Blood loss not withstanding of course.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:01:48 PM EDT
well shit, now the police are effected by our shitty laws and are complaining....how about we let this pass, and when the NYS AWB is lifted, we lift this too....ITS FOR THE CHILDREN!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:09:59 PM EDT
This law makes perfect sense to someone for whom only knows about guns, combat/shootings from what they've seen on TV and movies. (sadly like most people. Fantasy and fiction) It's frightening that they are allowed to try and make laws. He really should be kicked out of his position and run out of town for even suggesting such an asinine thing.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:07:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cas:
He really should be kicked out of his position and run out of town for even suggesting such an asinine thing.



With a long list of other politicians, R & D, right along with him.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:31:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 4:32:21 AM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
I really don't have to tell you poor schmucks how much I'm trying not to laugh, do I?



Don't let us hold you back. Just be aware that for every laugh a liberal moron from NY or NJ moves to PA and will eventually elect the same idiots they elected in NY/NJ.

You can run but you can't hide.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:28:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 12:29:48 PM EDT by Aimless]
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