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Posted: 2/20/2006 9:32:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:52:14 AM EDT by Lion_Dog]

New NJ AWB Bill (A2185)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A2185 was introduced 1/30/06 by Gusciora, Reed and would reclassify many of our rifles as assault weapons.


Quote:
This bill revises the criteria for determining whether or not a rifle is considered an assault firearm.

Currently, a rifle is considered to be an assault firearm if it is a semi-automatic rifle that has the capability of accepting a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following configurations: (1) a folding or telescoping stock; (2) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the rifle; (3) a bayonet mount; (4) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (5) a grenade launcher.

Under this bill, a rifle would be deemed to be an assault firearm if it is a semi-automatic that accepts a detachable magazine and has one, not two, of those qualifying configurations.


www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A2500/2185_I1.HTM



ET:sp
ETA: fixed link
ETA: Hand Guns also under attack.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:43:42 AM EDT
BOHICA
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:00:06 AM EDT
Sneaky bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to make sure this bill is DOA!!!!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:02:49 AM EDT
F'N laws these idiots always want to make.. Make NO f'n sense at all.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:11:26 AM EDT
Sorry it's too late. Corzine already signed it into law retroactive to 01-01-2006. You all need to report to your nearest PD and turn yourselves in.

No need to pack your anal lube as it will be supplied to you in your welcome kit when you check-in at the county jail.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:35:33 AM EDT
This would be REALLY bad news for us here in Jersey if the Dems get it out of committee and to the floor.

The big change here is that it means eliminating the pistol grip (defined under the law as "a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand") which protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the rifle.

Looking at an XM15 diagram, if you had a new 'non-pistol grip':

1. That was attached via the existing grip screw and washer from the bottom
2. That contained a hole in the top for the safety detent spring
3. And did not extend lower than bottom of the trigger guard beneath the lower receiver
4. And were not in possession of or had in your control ANY now-standard AR pistol grip

It would seem to me (a non-attorney) that you'd be in compliance with the terms of A2185
.

You'd still need your non-trigger hand to provide some support (maybe to the bottom of the magazine, or on the handguard) in order to fire the weapon, but it would seem to be doable imho.

Thoughts anyone?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:57:42 AM EDT
THOUGHTS ---- just forget it. they will not give up ! thank the voters
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:18:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 12:32:08 PM EDT by mchasal]

Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
This would be REALLY bad news for us here in Jersey if the Dems get it out of committee and to the floor.

The big change here is that it means eliminating the pistol grip (defined under the law as "a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand") which protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the rifle.

Looking at an XM15 diagram, if you had a new 'non-pistol grip':

1. That was attached via the existing grip screw and washer from the bottom
2. That contained a hole in the top for the safety detent spring
3. And did not extend lower than bottom of the trigger guard beneath the lower receiver
4. And were not in possession of or had in your control ANY now-standard AR pistol grip

It would seem to me (a non-attorney) that you'd be in compliance with the terms of A2185
.

You'd still need your non-trigger hand to provide some support (maybe to the bottom of the magazine, or on the handguard) in order to fire the weapon, but it would seem to be doable imho.

Thoughts anyone?



You mean something like this?

Edit: hotlink doesn't work because of the apostrophe in the url, cut and paste this url: http://www.fabten.com/what's_new.htm

Mike
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:11:56 PM EDT
This asshat first introduced this bill on Feb. 9, 2004 as A2108.

Here are the other bills he? introduced this year:

A541 Requires owner to report theft of Firearm to police within 72 hours.

A1394 Reduces years of law enforcement experience required for certain law enforcement officers to establish right to carry a Firearm.

A1609 Establishes the reckless discharge of a Firearm as a crime of the fourth degree.

A1720 Requires heir to undergo criminal background check before taking possession of Firearm.

A2185 Revises criteria for determining whether a rifle is an assault Firearm.

A2224 Authorizes trained and qualified county corrections to carry a Firearm at all times in New Jersey.

A2413 Requires collection of data on whether Firearm used in offense was illegally possessed.

A2429 Creates crime of criminal negligent homicide, negligent assault with a Firearm and reckless endangerment.

A2453 Authorizes school boards to establish a Firearm safety program.

S517 Enhances penalties for trespassing on private or posted property while possessing a Firearm.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:28:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 1:30:33 PM EDT by rkbar15]

Originally Posted By PK90:
This asshat first introduced this bill on Feb. 9, 2004 as A2108. Here are the other bills he? introduced this year:



Geez, someone should take his keyboard away. He must be planning to run for NJ Governor when Corsuck retires.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 2:38:08 PM EDT by Accuracy_With_Volume]
Please excuse my ignorance, but what happens if something like this passes? Will I have to surrender in my AR (and other guns in my collection), or will they have to be registered, or will they be grandfathered?
Or should I lose them in a tragic boating accident?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:50:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 2:51:15 PM EDT by BSOG1]
NJ doesnt grandfather shit.
been there -1990......
better warm up that outboard motor......
thinking about it passing ? who's going to stop it???
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:37:16 PM EDT
Another bill on the books to steal private property.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:34:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:14:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Accuracy_With_Volume:
Please excuse my ignorance, but what happens if something like this passes? Will I have to surrender in my AR (and other guns in my collection), or will they have to be registered, or will they be grandfathered?
Or should I lose them in a tragic boating accident?



Nothing gets grandfathered. Take a boat trip.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:32:16 PM EDT
think they might try to classify that fab ten thingy as a thumbhole stock?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:32:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
think they might try to classify that fab ten thingy as a thumbhole stock?



I was thinking the exact same thing.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 1:00:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:22:45 AM EDT
I knew Corzine was gonna be trouble.Can't believe he was a Marine. Well I am building my AR anyway. Molone Labe. gd

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:01:36 AM EDT
MF'er. This really needs to be stopped. There is no way in hell I'm giving up my legally owned firearms because they have a f'ing pistol grip.


...sigh..screw it, it needs it:

Fuck them. Fuck them in their stupid asses.

Sorry, this just gets me all riled up...
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:07:31 AM EDT
I HEAR YA. JUSTIFIED RANT. GD
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:11:22 AM EDT
Where do you find the info on the upcoming laws they want to pass. I would like to keep up on all this crap.

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:37:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndel:
Where do you find the info on the upcoming laws they want to pass. I would like to keep up on all this crap.

Thanks



Here's the bill. I left the link cold on purpose. Copy and paste it into your browser.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A2500/2185_I1.PDF

Status:
2/9/2004 Introduced, Referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

New Jersey Legislature Committees and Membership
2006-2007 Legislative Session
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Law and Public Safety
(Group B)
Barnes, Peter J. - Chair
Johnson, Gordon M. - Vice-Chair
Albano, Nelson T.
Bramnick, Jon M.
Rumpf, Brian E.
Steele, Alfred E.

Law and Public Safety
Thursday, February 23, 2006 02:00 PM Committee Room 12, 4th Fl., State House Annex, Trenton, NJ
Monday, January 30, 2006 02:00 PM Committee Room 12, 4th Fl., State House Annex, Trenton, NJ


It looks like this committee meets in 2 days, this Thursday!
Do any of you live in assembly districts represented by these members??
Probably wouln't be a bad thing to call their offices and express your displeasure with this proposed bill and ask for their help in keeping it from seeing the light of day.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:13:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
think they might try to classify that fab ten thingy as a thumbhole stock?



That's certainly a possibility, but supposedly it is "ATF approved". I know that doesn't carry any actual weight in state law issues, but it would probably mean something. I doubt any of the legislators know about the fabten grip anyway.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:39:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 7:41:29 AM EDT by 5thCavGuy]

Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
[It looks like this committee meets in 2 days, this Thursday!
Do any of you live in assembly districts represented by these members??
Probably wouln't be a bad thing to call their offices and express your displeasure with this proposed bill and ask for their help in keeping it from seeing the light of day.




Neither of my assemblymen are on that committee, but I'll be writing them anyway tonight. Given the short timeline, I'll be calling also. (edit to add: by "them" I mean I'll be writing both my reps as well as the ones on the committee)

I was amazed to see the effect of handwritten letters on Senator Byrd (WV) during the Alito hearings...did anyone else catch that?

Byrd stood up at the podium, told the story of all the handwritten notes he'd gotten from his constituents and acknowledged their anger over the conduct of the hearings...then he voted in favor of Alito's confirmation. He specifically said they weren't emails or form letters. (he's up for re-election this year)

So tonight I'll be hand-writing notes to my two Assemblymen, my state Senator, and the committee members. Both of my Assemblyguys have solid NRA ratings, so I'm preaching to the choir a bit, but it's worth it.

Short and to the point, here's the context:

1.) As a voter, I want action taken on violent criminals, not on law-abiding citizens. Increase the penalties for illegal purchase and possession, and push the judges to enforce them vigorously.

2.) In England, where a complete ban has been in place since 199x (need to research this), UN crime data shows a 2x per-capita violent crime rate compared to the US. 4x in Scotland. How can we hope for gun bans here to increase the safety of ourselves and our families?

3.) The weapons that will be banned under this bill are safer for in-house defensive use than most pistols, according to (need to find that FBI penetration data I've seen). The police nationwide are adding these same rifles for reasons of public safety, given that commonly-used pistol ammunition is more prone to penetrate multiple walls and harm innocent citizens.

4.) There were over 50 home invasion robberies (need to research this) in nearby Long Island last year, many of which involved the homeowners and families being savagely beaten in their own homes. With stores and other usual robbery targets becoming equipped with video surveillance technology, criminals are moving to easier residential targets. How does disarming us, or limiting us to more dangerous defensive firearms, increase our safety?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:45:16 AM EDT
I am on the link to send this asshole that created this bill... Reed Guscoria email. Now.. WTF do I want to type. I don't want to sound like the angry prick that I am. So. Help me. What should I write to this tool. I know it isn't gonna mean shit.. but i figured I would send him some hate mail or something.. I don't know.. this is so tiring.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 7:55:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5thCavGuy:
3.) The weapons that will be banned under this bill are safer for in-house defensive use than most pistols, according to (need to find that FBI penetration data I've seen). The police nationwide are adding these same rifles for reasons of public safety, given that commonly-used pistol ammunition is more prone to penetrate multiple walls and harm innocent citizens.

4.) There were over 50 home invasion robberies (need to research this) in nearby Long Island last year, many of which involved the homeowners and families being savagely beaten in their own homes. With stores and other usual robbery targets becoming equipped with video surveillance technology, criminals are moving to easier residential targets. How does disarming us, or limiting us to more dangerous defensive firearms, increase our safety?



Keep in mind that you are communicating with rabid anti-gun politicians that if given the chance would ban all firearms in NJ. The above arguments will be viewed as good reasons to ban handguns in addition to semi-auto rifles.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:03:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndel:
I am on the link to send this asshole that created this bill... Reed Guscoria email. Now.. WTF do I want to type. I don't want to sound like the angry prick that I am. So. Help me. What should I write to this tool. I know it isn't gonna mean shit.. but i figured I would send him some hate mail or something.. I don't know.. this is so tiring.



DO NOT send anything that even remotely resembles hate mail to a elected official. The bill sponsor is not interested in your comments. You will accomplish more if you call and write letters to the other committee members and your Assembly representatives.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:58:08 AM EDT
I didn't send anything.. Altho I really wanted to. It is a lose lose situation for us in NJ. F'n people are brainwashed in this state.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:02:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:

Originally Posted By johndel:
I am on the link to send this asshole that created this bill... Reed Guscoria email. Now.. WTF do I want to type. I don't want to sound like the angry prick that I am. So. Help me. What should I write to this tool. I know it isn't gonna mean shit.. but i figured I would send him some hate mail or something.. I don't know.. this is so tiring.



DO NOT send anything that even remotely resembles hate mail to a elected official. The bill sponsor is not interested in your comments. You will accomplish more if you call and write letters to the other committee members and your Assembly representatives.




Telling a SPONSOR his bill sucks is like tell someone their spouse sucks - must go around them, to the others in committee.

Remember:

A Snail MAIL has like 10x the weight as an email.

A phone call like 5x the weigh of an email.

Email - not to disparage this too much, email is pretty much just a point and click.

Don't ask me to back this with facts but I'm pretty sure that is accurate enough for us all to take note, the MORE (PAIN) you take time and effort out to notify you elected officicals the more WEIGHT (GAIN) your efforts have.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:02:08 AM EDT
Please forgive my ignorance, but would the passage of this bill ban future sales or make AR owners forfeit weapons they already own?
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:13:41 AM EDT
As a general rule politicians for the most part only care about campaign contributions and what special interest groups will deliver them the votes for re-election or moving up the political food chain. There are some exceptions but for the most part the era of statesmen in politics is gone.

If every gun owner in NY and NJ would get off their collective asses and get involved in pro-gun organizations we might be able to turn the anti-gun tide in NY and NJ.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:23:06 PM EDT
I guess its either:
-Hope the right-tilted SC hears a AWB-related case and shit-cans these laws as unconstitutional (lol)
-CA "non-pistolgrip" grip
-Rivet/epoxy a decent 10/15rnd mag into the well and install a kit over the mag release button and load via hand/strippers like a FAB10 (at least the rifle will still look original and its still "savable" if you move out of NJ/laws change)
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:27:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:56:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:
Hey Thom - could the NJCSD craft a form letter and post it? Something that could be copied and pasted into and email and printed off and signed for snail mail? Make it as easy as possible for folks to voice their opinion on this!



Good Idea
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:04:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoingIncognito:
MF'er. This really needs to be stopped. There is no way in hell I'm giving up my legally owned firearms because they have a f'ing pistol grip.


...sigh..screw it, it needs it:

Fuck them. Fuck them in their stupid asses.

Sorry, this just gets me all riled up...



It will probably be like the last NJ ban when people lined up at the Delaware Water Gap to throw their AKs and M1 carbines into Pennsylvania in order to be "law abiding" little shits. Then again maybe that was only "One Term" Jimmy Florio's wet dream and those guns are still in-state, waiting for better days to re-emerge. I'll never tell.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:13:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:
Hey Thom - could the NJCSD craft a form letter and post it? Something that could be copied and pasted into and email and printed off and signed for snail mail? Make it as easy as possible for folks to voice their opinion on this!



I'll work on that,

thank you.

[SchwartzenGovernor] I'll be BACK.[/SchwartzenGovernor]
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lion_Dog:

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:
Hey Thom - could the NJCSD craft a form letter and post it? Something that could be copied and pasted into and email and printed off and signed for snail mail? Make it as easy as possible for folks to voice their opinion on this!



I'll work on that,

thank you.

[SchwartzenGovernor] I'll be BACK.[/SchwartzenGovernor]



Yes, please, I'm horrible at these letters. I can sure as hell hit print, sign my name, and lick a stamp, though .
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:16:05 PM EDT
i know its all about control, confiscation, gun free,the children, why dont these guys just come right out and ban everything? i mean, whats the point of this kind of law, is the xm15 any less deadly with this awb ? between this kinda shit and taxs, etc. etc. im at the point of move'in out of this state. lion-dog at njcsd emailed me and its members to put together some material, i will do my best. im all for signing and mailing out any kind of letter put togther and will do so, but whos going to pay any attention to it? i write these bums all the time and NO response, i never voice hate or bash them," why punish the law abbiding voteing tax payer, blah blah blah." only one time one of them sent me some shit about how hes all for the 2nd amendment (ya,ok).. we need some really BIG help in this proposed awb, some folks with BIG money and BIG lawyers. my three cents.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 8:34:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
Here's the bill. I left the link cold on purpose. Copy and paste it into your browser.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A2500/2185_I1.PDF

Status:
2/9/2004 Introduced, Referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

New Jersey Legislature Committees and Membership
2006-2007 Legislative Session
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Law and Public Safety
(Group B)
Barnes, Peter J. - Chair
Johnson, Gordon M. - Vice-Chair
Albano, Nelson T.
Bramnick, Jon M.
Rumpf, Brian E.
Steele, Alfred E.

Law and Public Safety
Thursday, February 23, 2006 02:00 PM Committee Room 12, 4th Fl., State House Annex, Trenton, NJ
Monday, January 30, 2006 02:00 PM Committee Room 12, 4th Fl., State House Annex, Trenton, NJ


It looks like this committee meets in 2 days, this Thursday!
Do any of you live in assembly districts represented by these members??
Probably wouln't be a bad thing to call their offices and express your displeasure with this proposed bill and ask for their help in keeping it from seeing the light of day.




Here are their phone numbers and addresses. Call, write or both. And be polite.

Barnes, Peter J. - Chair
Johnson, Gordon M. - Vice-Chair
Albano, Nelson T.
Bramnick, Jon M.
Rumpf, Brian E.
Steele, Alfred E.

Assemblyman Peter J. Barnes, Democrat
District Office: Stephenville Park Plaza, 3 Stephenville Parkway, Suite 2E, Edison, NJ 08820 (732)--548-1406

Assemblyman Gordon M. Johnson, Democrat
District Office: 1 Engle St., Suite 104, Englewood, NJ 07631 (201)-541-1118

Assemblyman Nelson T. Albano, Democrat
District Office: 21 North Main Street, Cape May Court House, NJ 08210 (609)-465-0700
District Office: 223 East Main Street, Millville, NJ 08332 (856)-293-8353
District Office: 1028 East Landis Avenue, Vineland, NJ 08360 (856)-696-7109

Assemblyman Jon M. Bramnick, Republican
District Office: 203 Elm St., 1st Floor, Westfield, NJ 07090 (908)-232-3673
District Office: 57 Union Place, Suite 310, Summit, NJ 07091 (908)-918-0414

Assemblyman Brian E. Rumpf, Republican
District Office: 620 West Lacey Rd., Forked River, NJ 08731 (609)-693-6700

Assemblyman Alfred E. Steele, Democrat
District Office: 100 Hamilton Plaza, Suite 1400, Paterson, NJ 07505 (973)-247-1521
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:16:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 6:17:14 AM EDT by 5thCavGuy]
It's too late to write these guys before Thursday's session, so I'll be burning cellphone minutes during lunch today calling the list above, even though I'm not a resident of their respective districts.

I'm expressing concern over bills A812 and A2185.

A812 would require handgun owners to demonstrate "justifiable need" to continue owning their firearms, even within their own homes. This "justifiable need" would be presented to your local police chief, who then gets to reject it based on his/her subjective beliefs. If you're denied, you turn in your legally-purchased handgun. If you're approved, you have to get a "certificate of ownership" which effectively registers your gun for later confiscation.

A2185 would basically extend the definition of "Assault Weapons" to include any semi-auto with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip.

I'll be very politely conveying my rejection of both bills as a law-abiding citizen of the state, who depends on his handgun for defending his family at home and who uses a legal rifle for sporting purposes.

I've also mailed letters to my two Assemblymen (both NRA A-listers) and my state Senator (NRA C rating). Here's the text if anyone finds it useful:
--------------------------------------
Dear _________,

I am writing to express my deep concern regarding legislation under consideration here in New Jersey, which would seriously harm our already-strained Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Bill A812 would strip me of my right to own a handgun and possess it even within my own home. It would require me to demonstrate “justifiable need” to own even a previously legally purchased handgun to my local police chief, and be subject to his/her own definition of this need. In the unlikely event that I was granted permission to keep my handgun, I would be required to obtain a “certificate of ownership” which amounts to forced registration.

As we have seen in recent years both in England and Australia, such registration processes have been a prelude to later outright confiscation.

We have also seen, via UN crime data publications, that violent crime has increased in both countries following their respective firearm bans. Disarming law-abiding citizens does not reduce violent crime, but rather emboldens criminals.

Bill A2185 would expand the legal definition of “assault weapons” significantly beyond the current state parameters, making nearly all semi-automatic rifles resembling military firearms illegal and turning a large number of citizens into criminals. Such rifles are used in NRA-sanctioned competition and other legal sporting activities here in New Jersey.

At the national level, the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban has been proven by FBI crime data both not to have measurably reduced violent crime while it was in effect, and not to have created a measurable increase in violent crime when it was allowed to expire. There is simply no rational basis for rendering these rifles contraband.

These bills are a direct violation of our Constitutionally guaranteed rights and must not be enacted into law. I sincerely hope I can count on your increased efforts to stop these and other such bills from becoming law, and offer my assistance as you may require.
---------------------------
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:25:06 AM EDT
Good luck guys. May God be with us (we certainly need his help!)
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:51:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5thCavGuy:
It's too late to write these guys before Thursday's session, so I'll be burning cellphone minutes during lunch today calling the list above, even though I'm not a resident of their respective districts.

I'm expressing concern over bills A812 and A2185.

A812 would require handgun owners to demonstrate "justifiable need" to continue owning their firearms, even within their own homes. This "justifiable need" would be presented to your local police chief, who then gets to reject it based on his/her subjective beliefs. If you're denied, you turn in your legally-purchased handgun. If you're approved, you have to get a "certificate of ownership" which effectively registers your gun for later confiscation.

A2185 would basically extend the definition of "Assault Weapons" to include any semi-auto with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip.

I'll be very politely conveying my rejection of both bills as a law-abiding citizen of the state, who depends on his handgun for defending his family at home and who uses a legal rifle for sporting purposes.

I've also mailed letters to my two Assemblymen (both NRA A-listers) and my state Senator (NRA C rating). Here's the text if anyone finds it useful:
--------------------------------------
Dear _________,

I am writing to express my deep concern regarding legislation under consideration here in New Jersey, which would seriously harm our already-strained Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

Bill A812 would strip me of my right to own a handgun and possess it even within my own home. It would require me to demonstrate “justifiable need” to own even a previously legally purchased handgun to my local police chief, and be subject to his/her own definition of this need. In the unlikely event that I was granted permission to keep my handgun, I would be required to obtain a “certificate of ownership” which amounts to forced registration.

As we have seen in recent years both in England and Australia, such registration processes have been a prelude to later outright confiscation.

We have also seen, via UN crime data publications, that violent crime has increased in both countries following their respective firearm bans. Disarming law-abiding citizens does not reduce violent crime, but rather emboldens criminals.

Bill A2185 would expand the legal definition of “assault weapons” significantly beyond the current state parameters, making nearly all semi-automatic rifles resembling military firearms illegal and turning a large number of citizens into criminals. Such rifles are used in NRA-sanctioned competition and other legal sporting activities here in New Jersey.

At the national level, the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban has been proven by FBI crime data both not to have measurably reduced violent crime while it was in effect, and not to have created a measurable increase in violent crime when it was allowed to expire. There is simply no rational basis for rendering these rifles contraband.

These bills are a direct violation of our Constitutionally guaranteed rights and must not be enacted into law. I sincerely hope I can count on your increased efforts to stop these and other such bills from becoming law, and offer my assistance as you may require.
---------------------------


Thats good stuff. Now we just need to mail it to the above list of people?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:56:29 AM EDT
"A812 would require handgun owners to demonstrate "justifiable need" to continue owning their firearms, even within their own homes. This "justifiable need" would be presented to your local police chief, who then gets to reject it based on his/her subjective beliefs. If you're denied, you turn in your legally-purchased handgun. If you're approved, you have to get a "certificate of ownership" which effectively registers your gun for later confiscation."

As the frog said: It's getting a little warmer in here.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 8:32:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 8:36:19 AM EDT by RavenVT100]
Actually, A812 is worse than you think. I've just finished reading the text of the bill.

Not only would it outright ban all handgun ownership and prevent people from even having a handgun in their own home without a permit to carry, but it would set a mandatory minimum sentence of five years for anyone who owns a handgun or brings one into the state.

Think about what the bill is saying. It means if you do not get rid of your handguns (ostensibly, by turning them into the police) before this thing goes into effect, you go to jail, period. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

This bill is far, far worse than the AWB bill. It threatens anyone who has ever applied for and/or gotten a pistol permit in this state because the state already has you on file. This would indicate that free mandatory minimum sentences would be handed out to anyone who appears on that list who still possesses a firearm, and your "form of register" would be viewed as prima facie evidence that you "possessed a handgun without a permit to carry." I would also go further and assume that most people will not be notified about this law, in true New Jersey style, until it's too late.

Am I getting anyone's attention here? Do you see how truly fucking horrible this is?
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:32:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndel:
Thats good stuff. Now we just need to mail it to the above list of people?



Thanks for your compliment, but I'd recommend avoiding just printing and mailing this...it then becomes a form letter and loses effect.

Take the context of it, write it in your own (polite) wording, and sign the sucker in blue ink so it's clear that you didn't just use an NRA form.

Over lunch, I called and left messages for Bramnik, Steele, and Rumpf. Just clearly stated both bill numbers and why I believed there were both bad as stated above. Taking rights away from law-abiding citizens is what it's all about.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:53:34 AM EDT
Thanks all for insights to the pending Hand Gun bills also - I amended the TITLE to reflect same.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:32:58 AM EDT
www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills/A1000/812_I1.HTM

Bramnick is one of my reps. I think I should send him a letter.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:38:26 AM EDT
Suppose this BS law gets passed. And further suppose most people are deemed "unworthy" of posessing handguns any longer. This law requires them to be turned in to the state, correct?

So, is the state of NJ prepared to dish out tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for fair market value for these confiscated weapons? Not that it makes it okay, I'm just wondering if the brialliant lawmakers have kept this in mind.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:44:49 AM EDT
Are you nuts? You aren't going to be compensated a dime for stuff that the state takes. Remember, the people who write these laws think that the very things that you think and believe make you the bad guy and you don't even deserve to own your own property, regardless of what is morally or ethically just.

Part of me wants this to be the wake up call that NJ desperately needs. Part of me thinks that if the average person sees ordinary, innocent people being given the choice between "turn in your property with no compensation or we imprison you" it would get them to realize that something is seriously wrong with the policies of this state and the Democratic Party in general.

But then I think about how this state reacted to the AWB initially and I get very, very discouraged.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:00:26 AM EDT
NRA GOA???? Anyone with deep pockets going to bat for NJ?? From the link above this seems like an outright handgun ban, which is Fu$king ludicrous....Chief's discretion my ass.... I don't think letters & calls are going to do crap, although I have called and left messages from the posted list. What is the time line? If we keep our AR's, can we take off the pistol grip(not lose the selector spring), go to PA and shoot and screw them back on? God damn socialists. Hey FM do you want to by three pistols for a dollar and hold them for me? You can shoot them all you want.
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