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Posted: 12/21/2005 9:03:03 AM EDT
Well I am doing some traveling through ny for xmas. Gona stop and see the wife's family for a few days. I am also going to ohio and might stop in PA. Well my Va carry permit works all the way up the the bridge going into NY. I called a police department in the area I will be staying asking if I can lock it in the trunk like the match rules in the state and was told that "officially" I wasnt allowed to do that and could be charged with unregistered possession. WTF is that. I also cant check it in or register it. So WTF do I do with it. I am not going to leave it at home. I am trying reasonably to comply with the law but it is very unreasonable. My car doesnt have to meet NY inspection requirements WTF.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:26:06 AM EDT
I would not bring the gun into NY. Even if you use it to defend yourself, you could get into trouble. Heck, in NY, even the Republican office holdersare for more gun control. There is only one party in NY. No matter who you elect, you get a liberal.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:52:19 AM EDT
The point is I wouldnt even use it in NY but the surounding states that I will be traveling through. I understand state to state has rules for carry that is a different argument for a different time. I am talking transport in a locked container that is sealed and will never be accessed while in the state. IE I shoot someone that is shooting at me I will spend more time in jail than htey will. I am better off to run off get the car and run them over with it than anything else.

Looks like the only thing that is halfway legal is pepper spray.

The only option seems to be stop on the bridge on the way into the state, toss my sig in the river, and on the way back out swim down there and get it.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:48:26 PM EDT
Well the cop is full of ...dirt. You can do exactly as you propose. Don't stop for a meal, only for fuel, and try to obey all the traffic laws, make sure your vehicle has all of it's equipment in working order, and you'll be fine.

I traverse NYC at LEAST 10-15 times a month (but I have a NYS permit) without ever a problem. On one occasion I was in an accident, wasn't sure if my car would be imponuded / towed and I notifed the cop - he was completely unfazed about the gun (of course, he wanted to see it to "make sure" it was secured - it was!)

/ml2150
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:22:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 8:23:39 PM EDT by KogaShuko]
The problem comes when we are going to stop at the inlaws in new york for a few days on the trip. Since the wife's grandmother is dying we intend to go to ohio and end our weeklong trip in ohio. If she dies sooner then we might end our trip in ny and go down to PA on the way out. Either way, ohio I can and intend to carry due to the part of town we will be in some. Pa I am really indifferent too but the law sais they honor any 50state permits for CCW in vehicle. There is a possibility we will stop at a battlefield or two depending on the time frame and I have no problem leaving the weapon in the car if the state law requires it.

It is foolish of the state to asume that dynamicly changing travel needs will heed to their registration process. I offered to register it and I cant. I cant just make it disapear.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:56:42 AM EDT
It's legal to carry your pistol and travel through New York. Travel through , means just that, it does not mean to stop and look around it means travel through, and with all the crap going on in NYC the police are, lets just say, not in the holiday spirit I wouldn't carry a pistol down there right now even if i was just passing through.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:12:25 AM EDT
If I were in your situation this is what I would proabably do:
Assuming that you don't fit any "profiles" and lets face it if you look suspicious their going to think you ARE suspicious, if you look like a regular, responsible family man passing thru on vacation you're not likely to have any problems. That being said, I would securely lock and case the handgun then place it inside a suitcase. there wouldn't be anything visable inside the vehicle to indicate that I even liked guns (no ammo, magazines, "They'll take my..." stickers, or what have you) and go on about buisnessa as usual.
IF for some reasion you were stopped for a traffic violation, the officer IS going to write you a ticket so when he asks intrusive questions you may politely answer to your satisfaction if he asks "may I search your vehicle?" You may answer "NO" and they have to let it go. (if they suspect drugs they'll keep you pulled over while awaiting a K-9 unit to sniff around your vehicle). The first questions an Officer will ask are "where are you going?" "where are you coming from?" and first and quickest answers are the ones the officer will use and will and be listening for when/if he asks again. Not to encourage lieing, but my answers would indicate that we're just passing thru.
"Don't ask, don't tell", and reserving the right to keep your mouth shut are the thought of the day.
YMMV
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:23:11 AM EDT
There are laws/rules/regulations NY has in place for situations such as yours (they coincide with federal provisions), hopefully rkbar will chime in with the exact code. Even passing thru NYC is permissible just use common sense. Using a handgun would be an absolutely last, life threatening resort and even then I would disappear as fast as I could.
Behave, and you won't have any problems. NY isn't run in Gestapo fashion.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:32:45 AM EDT
I kind of thought the original intent of the law was to prevent unregistered firearms from making their way to unlicensed residents in NY. I wouldnt see how me possessing something locked within a lock in a trunk (locked box can not be searched without a warrent) would affect that at all.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:14:47 AM EDT
With the new "gun trafficking" laws that were just passed, I would be very careful bringing a handgun into NY State (especially NYC). The laws for bringing illegal guns into NY are tightening.

From: www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm:

"No person may carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. New York does not issue licenses to non-residents nor does it recognize licenses issued by other states. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.)"

"Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence."

I would not want to fight it out in court...
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:20:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:21:14 AM EDT by KogaShuko]
LOL gun trafficing. Well I dont think anyone could say I was doing that. Now if my back seat had 40boxes of fivesevens that would be another story.

As far as pass through, it is time that the federal govt fix them. They passed the law years ago to protect people traveling through.

So once again they are saying I have to stop at the bridge and toss by gun out.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:46:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
LOL gun trafficing. Well I dont think anyone could say I was doing that. Now if my back seat had 40boxes of fivesevens that would be another story.



The threshold for a criminal sale of a firearm charge is five or more handguns. It makes no difference that your intent was only to travel peaceably through NYS and not sell them in NY. You can bring 18 USC 926A up as a defense at trial though.

§ 265.15 Presumptions of possession, unlawful intent and defacement.

6. The possession of five or more firearms by any person is presumptive evidence that such person possessed the firearms with the intent to sell same.

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 9:53:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
I wouldnt see how me possessing something locked within a lock in a trunk (locked box can not be searched without a warrent) would affect that at all.



If you arrested while traveling in NY for a traffic related or other crime and your vehicle is impounded its contents including the locked trunk and any locked containers can be searched as part of an inventory search.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:57:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 11:58:26 AM EDT by KogaShuko]
Hints why I would have one locked gun from where I came from where it was lawful to carry.

They dont impound vehicles as part of a normal traffic stop. Also inventory search doesnt apply to locked cases. Anything they get in the locked case without a warrent is not admissable. This is a very specific ruling but I cant think of the case at the moment.

The jacked up part is having to do stupid sh*t like that. I beleive 265.01 would probably be the propper charge in this case but the intent of it is possession of it in a ability to use it. If it is disasembled with the lower locked I dotn think it can be constrewed that way.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 12:47:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Hints why I would have one locked gun from where I came from where it was lawful to carry.



New York doesn't care about or comply with USC 926A. You are subject to arrest and prosecution for possession a handgun while traveling through NY in compliance with 926A. In any case if your intention is to travel through NY with a handgun why even bother to ask whether it's legal or not?


Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
They dont impound vehicles as part of a normal traffic stop. Also inventory search doesnt apply to locked cases. Anything they get in the locked case without a warrent is not admissable. This is a very specific ruling but I cant think of the case at the moment.



That would depend on what you call a "normal" traffic stop. There are numerous sections of the NYS VTL as well as Town and Village Traffic Laws that give authority to a PO to impound your vehicle if he chooses to. Obviously if you are properly licensed and commit a minor traffic violation and your vehicle is road worthy and properly insured your vehicle will not be impounded.

An inventory search of locked compartments and containers of a MV is permissible if it is the policy/procedure of the LEA to do so. If the officer has reason to believe that the trunk or locked containers contain contraband he would be wise to obtain a search warrant but a warrant is not required. In any case it would be months down the road before a judge decides whether the search was permissible or whether any contraband seized as evidence was admissible or not.


Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
The jacked up part is having to do stupid sh*t like that. I beleive 265.01 would probably be the propper charge in this case but the intent of it is possession of it in a ability to use it. If it is disasembled with the lower locked I dotn think it can be constrewed that way.



I thought we were are talking about unlicensed handguns. There are no restrictions on traveling through NY with unloaded long guns transported in compliance with 926A as long as they don't meet the definition of a banned assault weapon in NY. You would also be subject to arrest and prosecution for possession of any postban/no ban +10 mags in your possession.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:31:41 PM EDT
No it is a handgun but I will not be carrying it.

By reading the code they could it looks like charge you with that for a rifle or a handgun. Honestly if it locked and taken appart I dont see why anyone would have a problem with it unless I just took it appart after smoking like 12 people. That wouldnt happen.

It also said that ny will review other states laws anually to see what crimes in other states would be a felony in ny and what other state carry laws are. They obviusly dont do that otherwise they would honor other states permits.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:56:26 PM EDT
Wow I read this. That is jacked up. And I am trying to do the right thing at least.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
No it is a handgun but I will not be carrying it.

By reading the code they could it looks like charge you with that for a rifle or a handgun. Honestly if it locked and taken appart I dont see why anyone would have a problem with it unless I just took it appart after smoking like 12 people. That wouldnt happen.

It also said that ny will review other states laws anually to see what crimes in other states would be a felony in ny and what other state carry laws are. They obviusly dont do that otherwise they would honor other states permits.



Unless the firearm is permanently altered/modified etc. so it can no longer ever function as a gun merely disassembling a gun will buy you nothing. You don't have to be carrying the firearm on your person. You just need to be in possession of it. You are still in possession of it even if its disassembled and locked inside a locked box inside a locked trunk.

New York will never acknowledge or provide CCW reciprocity with any other state. NY is the only state in the U.S. that requires a license and registration to simply possess a handgun in your home or business.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:45:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fp1201:
There are laws/rules/regulations NY has in place for situations such as yours (they coincide with federal provisions), hopefully rkbar will chime in with the exact code. Even passing thru NYC is permissible just use common sense. Using a handgun would be an absolutely last, life threatening resort and even then I would disappear as fast as I could.
Behave, and you won't have any problems. NY isn't run in Gestapo fashion.




Nope , more like Bosnia after the cleansing.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:50:58 PM EDT
Just picture this, you're driving around on a bucolic country lane on the NY leg of your trip when you're rear ended. As you argue with the soccer mom in her SUV tank who plowed into you while chatting on the phone about her next hair appointment, the responding police officer walks past your trunk, which is now popped open from the crash, and sees your gun.

Sha na na na, na na na na, hey hey goodbye to you.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:52:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Wow I read this. That is jacked up. And I am trying to do the right thing at least.




Oh and this is a pretty funny quote from that article:

"It was a nickel-plated .380 Glock that could hold 10 shots, he recalled with a hint of nostalgia."


Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:00:55 PM EDT
After reading a little more about it it makes a little more sense why they passed the law. They have a real problem with people buying guns in other states and either selling them there or bringing them there. Whoever made the law didnt even bother to make a distiction on possessing while passing through and buying somewhere else to circumvent the law. Maybe they should stop to think the reason they have problems with the people doing that is becauseo of the damn laws up there.

I cant find where it is prosicuted on a regular bases but I am sure if I went strolling into a police station with it on my hip someone might say something. Out of the tons of illegal guns that are there it is hard to fathom that they wouldnt understand that registration isnt working.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 5:32:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Wow I read this. That is jacked up. And I am trying to do the right thing at least.




Oh and this is a pretty funny quote from that article:

"It was a nickel-plated .380 Glock that could hold 10 shots, he recalled with a hint of nostalgia."





oh man
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:01:30 PM EDT
In theory, the federal FOPA of 1986 should protect you legally if you're just driving through without stopping. In practice however, I'm not sure how that would pan out. It would most lilely cost you $$$ defending yourself in court using the '86 FOPA travel provision as an affirmative defense, should you be arrested with an unregistered handgun. Sucks, but that's reality. 99% of federal laws passed to supercede state laws are worthless and without "teeth" so to speak. The new federal law protecting the rights of current and qualified retired LEO's to CCW anywhere is the US is another toothless federal law. Yes, the laws define what the state/local gov't may or may not do, but there's no punitive aspects if they don't. For example, the '86 FOPA protects the right of travelers like you to securely carry a handgun from their point of origination to their point of destination, regardless of state/local laws enroute, as long as the weapon is legal where they began and legal where they'll end up. Of course, the law is simply words on a piece of paper to state/local gov't. They can and often will ignore the law and arrest someone "protected" by the FOPA. Now, if the law was written to say that any state/local gov't official who violates the law and arrests/prosecutes someone legally carrying within the scope of the FOPA will themselves be arrested by the BATFE, tried and convicted of a federal felony with a 10 year stint in Club Fed, I think there'd be more state/local gov't officials interested in obeying the FOPA. But, this is the real world and that's not going to happen. I hate to say it but leave the handgun at home, IMO.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:07:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By B-52Gunner:
It's legal to carry your pistol and travel through New York. Travel through , means just that, it does not mean to stop and look around it means travel through, and with all the crap going on in NYC the police are, lets just say, not in the holiday spirit I wouldn't carry a pistol down there right now even if i was just passing through.



no it's not
you might be able to drive through NY with it locked in the trunk unloaded, but carry it without a permit and you're going to jail
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:10:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Wow I read this. That is jacked up. And I am trying to do the right thing at least.




Oh and this is a pretty funny quote from that article:

"It was a nickel-plated .380 Glock that could hold 10 shots, he recalled with a hint of nostalgia."





since when does Glock sell .380s in the US?
yeah, I know guns are smuggled in from other countries, but would they bother smuggling in glock .380s?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:28:21 PM EDT
All I am going to drive through.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:50:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
After reading a little more about it it makes a little more sense why they passed the law. They have a real problem with people buying guns in other states and either selling them there or bringing them there. Whoever made the law didnt even bother to make a distiction on possessing while passing through and buying somewhere else to circumvent the law. Maybe they should stop to think the reason they have problems with the people doing that is becauseo of the damn laws up there.

I cant find where it is prosicuted on a regular bases but I am sure if I went strolling into a police station with it on my hip someone might say something. Out of the tons of illegal guns that are there it is hard to fathom that they wouldnt understand that registration isnt working.



Toto, I don’t think we’re in Kansas Virginia any more!

Welcome to the Peoples Republics of the north east.
When it comes to gun rights in NJ, NY, MA don’t expect logic, reason or justice.
I’m a citizen subject of PRNJ but I can only travel with a gun in my car if it is locked, unloaded and out of reach. On top of that I can only be traveling to or from a gun range, gunsmith and my house. Drive with it to the local supermarket (locked and unloaded in the trunk) and I’m technically in violation of the law. Oh I almost forgot, don’t bring your daisy red rider BB gun here either, NJ considers it to be a firearm, and a BB pistol is a REAL pistol in the eyes of the law!
Stay away, far away if you value your freedom.
Rich V
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 8:00:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rich_V:

Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
After reading a little more about it it makes a little more sense why they passed the law. They have a real problem with people buying guns in other states and either selling them there or bringing them there. Whoever made the law didnt even bother to make a distiction on possessing while passing through and buying somewhere else to circumvent the law. Maybe they should stop to think the reason they have problems with the people doing that is becauseo of the damn laws up there.

I cant find where it is prosicuted on a regular bases but I am sure if I went strolling into a police station with it on my hip someone might say something. Out of the tons of illegal guns that are there it is hard to fathom that they wouldnt understand that registration isnt working.



Toto, I don’t think we’re in Kansas Virginia any more!

Welcome to the Peoples Republics of the north east.
When it comes to gun rights in NJ, NY, MA don’t expect logic, reason or justice.
I’m a citizen subject of PRNJ but I can only travel with a gun in my car if it is locked, unloaded and out of reach. On top of that I can only be traveling to or from a gun range, gunsmith and my house. Drive with it to the local supermarket (locked and unloaded in the trunk) and I’m technically in violation of the law. Oh I almost forgot, don’t bring your daisy red rider BB gun here either, NJ considers it to be a firearm, and a BB pistol is a REAL pistol in the eyes of the law!
Stay away, far away if you value your freedom.
Rich V



"watch it kid, or you'll shoot yer eye out!"
- NJ Politicians while they made the law that deemed bb guns as pistols/firearms
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:06:10 AM EDT
Well made it out without a problem. We ended up staying a few days so I had to be carefull. I talked to a number of people while visiting there and would talk about competition shooting. Several people wanted to get into it but couldnt due to price plus the fee for the permit. I talked to a couple other people that had permits at one time but let them expire. I didnt ask them what they did with their gun when it expired but I dont think they threw it in a river. I stopped at the local sporting good store to see what they had and talked to the cleark and asked if they had any handguns. He said they were too much trouble. He continied to tell my that anyone in NY, even law enforcement from other states, caught with a firearm gets 10 years in jail. I know a lot of LE with nationwide concealed carry and I think the ny police would have a hard time with that. Thats ok though I am out of there for at least another 2 years now.

I rearmed in PA and was glad I did. I passed through Ma (which it hadnt occured to me until I came our of the restroom at the rest area) and was at a real sketcy rest stop. The place was deserted except for one truck and a car that had what looked like a contractor that was working on the place there. While getting in the car with the wife the truck driver approached us. He simply wanted to ask for directions but my wife said later there was something weird about him. I think he was just new and scared because he was lost. Anyway, it was nice to be able to have the side arm if I had needed it. My wife then told me when I got in the car that in that incident and the whole stop in general at the weird rest area that she was glad I had my gun.

I in no way mean any disrespect to any of these states laws and attempted to comply within the original spirit of the law and get the hell out as soon as I could.
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