User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 10:11:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Welcome to the Republik, fellow subject.
And you know what, it's only gonna get worse, I'm afraid, with Korzine in charge in January. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 10:35:48 AM EDT
[#2]
That's why I finally decided to get the paperwork in now, before it's too late. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:52:20 PM EDT
[#3]
That sucks. I completely agree that NJ is totally off the wall with these things. That being said it didn't take me more than 30 days to get my FID card and first Permit to Purchase
 .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 2:22:46 PM EDT
[#4]
in the town i live in its takes 2 months to the day to get a pistol permit, they give a form that states their demands, two valid froms of I.D, two documents verifying home address, money order, etc. etc. the last item is in big letters- EXPECT A LONG PERIOD OF TIME ( AT LEAST 2 MONTHS) FOR PROCESSING. DO NOT CALL FOR STATUS UPDATES. they claim its the state police backround check that takes so long.
yea, what ever, it couldnt possiably be that the whole office is sitting around stuffing their fat faces and talking about their retirement packages and vacation days now could it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 2:33:55 PM EDT
[#5]
You really lucked out, how long ago did you get your FID? It took me almost 4 months to get my FID and first pistol purchase permit, I applied for it this past August. NJ once was a great state, now is slowly making me want to move away forever. ^_^_^ |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 2:39:42 PM EDT
[#6]
It's been that way for as long as I can remember . I had the same problem when I applied for my FIDC back in 1973!!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 6:44:00 PM EDT
[#7]
My local PD has never failed to get me the permits within 30 days. Nor my FID address change. The initial FID process, in another town, took 3 months. That was it.
I've called for status updates when I knew for a fact that a state police check wasn't going to be done, but I've always been courteous. They haven't had a problem w/it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 7:35:50 PM EDT
[#8]
I suppose if I call the town PD, they will pass the buck and say it's held up at the state police even if they haven't even forwarded the forms to state. I suppose I could then ask for the person to contact at the State to see why the 30 day law is being violated. That is sure to make friends no matter how politely it's done. I want to walk in to the PD waving the friggin law book and say they are breaking the law. It's akin to getting pissed at the cop who is cruising down the GSP doing 90 mph without his lights on just because he can. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 4:02:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Most of the time, delays are caused by the SP fingerprint / background checks. The second reason is that most PDs do not have someone waiting just to do Firearms permits. Officers have other responsibilities as well. You should realize that the Courts will not hold PDs to 30 days. PK90 can cite the case. The whole system needs to be revamped. The instant check done at the time of purchase is more comprehensive then the check done by the SP or your local PD. A better system would be to take your FID and go to the gun shop and have them fill out the purchase permit at the time of sale. No difference in background checks and less expensive. Background checks are a profit center for the SP. I think about 20 million per year. Only a small portion is from firearm related checks. Mike |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 5:05:51 AM EDT
[#10]
I got my FID in May, IIRC. My PD has a dedicated permit/background Detective, so things tend to go a little quicker here. The best advice I can give you is to just tough it out. I know it sucks, but short of moving out of NJ there's not much you can do  .
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 6:26:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Vadge - You will have to wait however long it takes, we've all gone through this at one point.
Be happy when you do get your FID. Yes, they are supposed to approve or deny you within 30 days by law. However, if one looks to the reality of the situation one realizes a few things. The taxpayers of your town don't care if you have to wait 30, 60, 90 or 120 days. The taxpayers would rather the PD focus on quality of life issues like crime solving, more patrols, etc. Hence, your local PD and town doesn't assign a high priority to speedy FID and/or Pistol Permit approvals. Therefore, minimal staff is assigned to this particular task. Given the minimal resources assigned to the task, be happy if the paperwork gets submitted for the various criminal & mental health records checks within that 30 days. If you come in to complain that they haven't complied with the 30 day law, they will comply by giving you a denial based on the fact that such and such check hasn't come back yet and you are demanding approval or failure. So your best bet is to vent on a board like this and stay cool during the process. This isn't the way things should be run, but this is the way things are, at this time, in NJ. Don't be surprised if things get more difficult for us in the future. Buy all your handguns and semi-auto long arms ASAP, before things get more restrictive. For example, see Canada or the UK or Australia (you know what I mean). |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 7:53:06 AM EDT
[#12]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 3:02:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks. Judicial proof that we just have to take whatever they dish out. I'm fully intent on waiting this out without doing anything, but it so frustrating. What makes matters worse is that during all this waiting around, all you can do is think about the wait. I feel like a kid a Christmas. The killer is that both of the firearms I'm looking to buy off the bat will probably take at least a month to come in after ordering. ARHGHGHGH! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 3:12:17 PM EDT
[#14]
took me eight months....
that was back in 1988. be patient,it all works out.once you have it you have it forever, even if you move out of state. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 4:36:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Hang on a sec... The address on the FID card must be current for it to be valid. If you move out of NJ, how will a non-NJ Chief issue a current address NJ FID?? And even if he could, as a non-FFL holder and a non-NJ resident (with the hypothetical out-of-state issued NJ FID card) what the hell good would it do you? You couldn't buy anything in NJ anyway, could you?? My brain hurts  This system sucks, but it's the only one we've got at the moment here in the Garden of Evil State. Brian |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 5:46:47 PM EDT
[#16]
my buddy inquired about an out of state FID and was told no
problem. i think it was thru the state boys. its not that bad,shoot more !!! then your brain wont hurt.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 5:36:08 PM EDT
[#17]
March 10, 2005
CB1 XXXX XXXX Grand Prairie, TX XXXX Dear Mr. CB1 If you wish to apply for a duplicate Firearms Purchaser Identification Card you must make application in person to the chief police officer of the municipality where you reside or to the Superintendent of State Police if you reside in a State Police patrolled area, or outside the State of New Jersey. The application process includes completing the application for a duplicate Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (form STS-3), a request for a ‘Criminal History Name Check (SBI-212A) accompanied by an $18.00 money order made payable to the “Division of State Police-SBI”. A consent for mental health records search form (form SP-66) must also be submitted. Being you reside in Grand Prairie Texas, you must make application to the New Jersey State Police Woodstown Barracks located at 769 Route 40 Pilesgrove, N.J. 08098, telephone number 856-769-0775. All forms (with the exception of form SBI-212A) needed for you application may be downloaded via Internet access at www.njsp.org and click on the services bar then on forms to be downloaded. The Division of State Police provides information concerning gun laws via Internet access at www.njsp.org and then by clicking the services bar, then click on the firearms bar. I hope this information is helpful to you. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me at 609-882-2000, extension 6619, or you may e-mail me at: [email protected]. Sincerely, For Colonel Joseph R. Fuentes Superintendent J.F. Corbley, Acting Lieutenant Unit Head Firearms Investigation Unit |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/21/2005 7:34:37 AM EDT
[#18]
Here's an UPDATE to my processing:
I went to my local PD today just to make sure that my app was sitting in someone's mailbox. One of the two town cops that handles the apps happened to be there and was VERY helpful in checking into the status. My town PD processed my app and sent all of the info out to the State Police. The NJSP then sends info to the FBI. My town hasn't received ANYTHING back from the state or feds after 6 weeks. The cop was pretty sympathetic towards the situation and told me that the Feds could care less about processing the fingerprints and doing the background check. He said it is the lowest of low priorities for them. He then told me that the town PD has no recourse or even contact at the NJSP or FBI to check on the status of the app once it's in their hands. He said we are both in their mercy. Ironically enough, he also mentioned that he thought the NJ process is a little ridiculous because of all the beauracracy and inter-agency back and forth. He told me that he thinks it's BS that after waiting 3 months to get a pistol permit and going through all of that rigorous background checking that the feds have the nerve of charging $15 for a NICs check at time or purchase that's a lot LESS in-depth. He said that NICs checks are fine for states where you can just walk in and buy a gun, but in NJ, it's totally useless and money-making operation. The worst news is that he told downgraded the length of time to get a permit from an optimistic 6 weeks when I applied to 6 months! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!? He did say he did not consider it to be a bother to check in with him from time to time regarding the app status which I thought was nice. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/21/2005 8:22:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Minor correction. The NICS check is performed by New Jersey, not the FBI. NJ is a POC state for the NICS system. You would not be paying the $15 if it was the feds doing it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/21/2005 11:11:22 AM EDT
[#20]
That's probably why he though it was dumb then...If NJ just went through the process, why does is it need to again...oh yeah...for your $15. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/22/2005 4:15:44 AM EDT
[#21]
When I lived in NJ and went to get my permit (2003) I went to my local PD and filled out the app and got printed. I asked him how long it takes and he said he doesn't know because they don't have anything to do with it other than sending in the app to the FBI in Trenton. So according to my local PD the problem is with the FBI.
ETA: i received mine in 3 months |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/22/2005 4:46:25 AM EDT
[#22]
I think that what gets sent to the State Police is the background check request. The actual application--your form that you fill out--apparently only goes to them after it gets issued and it indicates the permit numbers that were issued to you so they can then match it up in their computer after they get the FFL's copy once you make your purchase. Regardless, this stage of the process is indeed where the bottleneck occurs, especially if your physical fingerprints need to be checked. If you apply for a Florida carry permit, they take about 90 days too--because your physical fingerprint card needs to be checked by the FBI. It is reasonable to assume that this is true because if you do the Florida insta-fingerprint-check, your app comes back in only a couple of weeks.
It would not make any sense to send the copy of the app to the state police until after the background check has been concluded. If you have ever been fingerprinted for any other reason (work, et cetera) you will notice that the FID is a reason for getting a background check done through the state. Of course I could be completely off base here, but that is my current belief as to how the process works, based on my experiences so far. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/22/2005 4:18:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Are you a member of ANJRPC???
They might be in a position to help. ANJRPC FID Help Page
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2005 6:49:48 AM EDT
[#24]
I will be joining Cherry Ridge once I get my FID. If, for some weird reason, I don't get my FID, I don't want to be out $175 for a range I can't use. I did see that help page on their website and thought about contacting them, but I don't think anything completely unusual is happening in my case. I am just "going through the process". One of the links above pointed to case where someone sued the PD for taking longer than 30 days and the judge sided with the town because THEY did everything THEY COULD within the 30 days and got held up by the feds. I don't think suing the FEDERAL government is worth it unless the NRA is paying for it for me!
The system is flawed because it takes too much interagency interaction and there is 0% accountablity for each party involved. The local PD can blame the state, the state can blame the feds, and vice versa. It amazes me that in this day and age of computer networking that the applicant is not issued a case # at time of application that can be tracked through the stages of the application throughout its travel through the agencies. I have the sinking feeling that there is some state/fed department that looks like a DMV office where no one is motivated to work and there is no pressure on them to do these checks in a timely manner. If you've ever dealt with the State regarding taxes, sales tax or payroll, you'll know what I mean. No incentive to perform and too "out of reach" for any one of us to have an impact on. My town PD is not at fault (as far as I know) and is being pretty cooperative and sympathetic. The cop I talked to told me "It's not like I can call John Smith over at the FBI and ask him what the hold up is with Mr. XXX's background check." |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2005 7:35:44 AM EDT
[#25]
vadge:
I would exercise common sense and not call the police or give them a hard time unless you are explicitly told that you are not going to get your FID and it's for a BS reason. At that point, you have legal avenues throuch which to pursue getting your FID. Since it sounds like this is your initial application, just be patient. The first time always takes the longest because they do everything. After that, it won't take so long. I personally have only requested an "update" from the police once, because I knew for a fact a check wasn't being done through the state. Realistically, any police department can pull up your actual criminal history almost right away if they want to, but the FID law comes from the 1960s, and they do it the "old way" before everything was computerized. The ANJRPC is going after departments that purposely bust people's balls and try to prevent them from getting their FID or try to create "cause" to deny an FID when there is no real cause to do so. This doesn't sound like it's happening to you, especially considering that the police have been cooperative about it so far. So I would not burn any bridges. Believe me I have gone through my share of angst over the FID process as well, especially since I come from another part of the country where CCW is plentiful and the federal Brady law is the only thing that comes between you and a purchase. But I would never take it out on my local department, because it really isn't their fault. It's the fault of the NJ legislature. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2005 7:43:31 AM EDT
[#26]
You can JOIN ANJRPC.org with out paying for range priviledges.
Edit: sp |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2005 12:53:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Interesting. Is it always required for the PD with whom an address change has been performed to have the former town's firearms records on file? I guess that's why they never asked me to get re-fingerprinted during my address renewal. Thanks for sharing. This should shed light on other reasons as to why it's not always a good idea to blame your local department for FID delays. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 8:51:25 AM EDT
[#30]
I remeber waiting about 6 weeks for my FID in 1995, but my last three pistol permits all in 2005 were given to me the same day I submitted them. I guess i am very lucky.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 12:33:53 PM EDT
[#31]
From what the cop told me, pistol permits are given out at the Chief's discretion once they've done the whole FID background check. Thus, if the town doesn't have reason to believe you are a criminal, they can be given on the spot. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 1:01:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Thats not true. Once you have a FID and then apply for a pistol purchase permit a form, along with an $18.00 monet order, needs to be sent to the State Police. This is in lieu of the fingerprint cards. If you are getting permits the same day someone is "cutiing corners" Merry Christmas, Mike |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#33]
We have one day a week that we are supposed to go for Pistol Permits, Wednesday night. If I go on Wednesday the detective (nice guy) will usually have it signed by the chief by Monday, if the chief is available. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 1:18:25 PM EDT
[#34]
My FID card and initial pistol permits took about 7 months, every permit there after took about a week or less. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/24/2005 5:25:05 PM EDT
[#35]
From the NJSP guidelines dated 9/20/2000:
"Permit to Purchase a Handgun & Form of Register" application process (short version) Application Process: 1. Submit Application Form STS-33 2. Submit Mental Health Form SP-66 3a. If never applied for a permit, submit State fingerprint card SBI-19, Federal fingerprint card FD-258 and $54 fee 3b. If applying for subsequent permits, submit "Request for Criminal History Record Information for a Non-Criminal Justice Purpose" form SBI-212A along with $18. No fingerprints are needed. The department is supposed to collect the $18 fee everytime you apply for another permit. I have the entire guidelines in paperform, but will attempt to obtain it on disk. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2005 11:58:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Dude, nothing EVER is simplified by giving the state of NJ a computer. I've dealt with state systems in a few guises. They're still awed and confounded by Windows 95. They universally have the worst engineers with the biggest egos available, zero accountability, and a confounding interface. It's just like the paper system, only worse. Anything more complicated than one guy with a big stamp in Trenton with office hours between noon and 1:30 on Mondays is too fucking complicated for these people. Garbage in, garbage out. Welcome to the party. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2005 7:10:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Took me and a friend of mine 6-7 months to get our FID cards and initial pistol permits. We actually called at that time and they were still waiting on something from the state but they told us to come in and pick them up anyway...
Luckily that BS is over... Now to get subsequent permits, they've been pretty good. Drop off app on Wednesday and pick up in 1 week or less. Not too bad. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2005 1:31:45 PM EDT
[#39]
When was that and what town are you in? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2005 1:34:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Upper Saddle River 2 to 3 weeks to get my pistol permits costing 2 bucks eack permit
Palisades Park 3 months and cost 30 each They can get it done its a matter of man power and motivation of the PD |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/7/2006 11:01:55 PM EDT
[#41]
It took 2-3 weeks for my FID card and now a pistol permit takes 2-3 days.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 12:05:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Wow, whereabouts is that? Sounds like a sleepy town. It definitely does vary from town to town. My friend got his (FID + pistol permits) relatively quickly in Ridgewood - a rich white man kind of town. Other friends in other neighborhoods have had to wait a long, long time. It just took my friend's wife close to a year down in the New Brunswick area - thanks in part to screwed up fingerprinting. I'm waiting for some pistol permits now, since Dec 21. I figure I will call about them after I get back from the shot show the middle of february. The department says in their little written hand out "dont call us, we'll call you" but last time the permits were in for a month before the guy got around to calling me. The problem is they have one very busy detective handling the firearms paperwork here. At least in some towns the manpower excuse is a legitimate one. The whole system should be scrapped. At the very least, a FID + NICS check should be sufficient to buy a Glock since it's sufficient to buy an M1A, or five M1As. gotta love the people's republic. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 5:59:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Wolfy,
What town are you in? I find what you are saying VERY difficult to believe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 6:13:42 PM EDT
[#44]
I know someone else who just got 2 permits that quickly, I believe it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:21:20 PM EDT
[#45]
A pistol permit, maybe, but Wolf said he got is NJ FID in 2-3 weeks. Unless his town has some secret connection with the NJSP, I can't see the state doing background checks any faster for one town vs another. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:22:42 PM EDT
[#46]
I pay $2.00 each, and the last three I applied for only took a few hours for each.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/8/2006 7:31:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Without giving the exact town I am located in central Monmouth county. I am not a LEO and do not get special treatment. I suspect the Chief is pro gun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 2:39:48 AM EDT
[#48]
I am sort of testing the process. My son applied for his FID and P2P on 12/28/05. I have no pull at the state level, but the locals won't sit on it. The references already submitted their replies. He was told 6-8 weeks. I'll post when he gets the call.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 4:21:52 AM EDT
[#49]
What's a FID?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/9/2006 11:47:44 AM EDT
[#50]
From what I can tell a lot of depts only have one guy assigned to the process and he needs to have time to run the checks. With me it's ranged between 2 and 6 weeks for subsequent permits; therefore I would have to assume that it is simply a function of how much time the guy has on his hands.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
