[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How Hillary lost. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/9/2016 7:57:57 PM EDT
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These are just my observations. I have a different point of view, a kind outside observer with no real interest or stake involved. And the guys here that know me pretty well can attest that I don't see things the same way most of you do, nor do I think the same way as most of you. Fuck, I may not even be able to see or think the way you do. I love getting down to the root cause of something and then solving the problem...and I've made a career from that.
This recent campaign and election was damn near a masterpiece in manipulation. First off, the GOP died June 19th, 2016. Maybe we'll end up with a Republican Party or a Conservative Party...we'll see....we should always be up for an adventure. But I kinda see that the old GOP needed to die..change...evolve...whatever. The DNC was manipulated...in many states that Hillary won, more people voted for her than there were registered Democrats for that state. A lot of Asian countries casually observed her nomination, and a lot of them asked, "isn't she a really weak candidate?" I think Sanders wouldn't have won if he were nominated....that Democratic Socialist issue....bad choice of names. O'Malley is the wildcard, proven winner (even if only on the local level), seems like a level headed personable guy....good chance he might have able to pull it off, but the liberals and the millennials didn't like him. The polls were manipulated. First by the media. Polls are so fucking easy to manipulate; use questions that can only be answered the way you want them, target a specific group that will give the answers you want, toss out any questions that didn't get answered the way you want. The media used the polls in an attempt to demoralize the opposition...it didn't work they way they wanted. Second, we all know how much Conservatives love polls...we usually don't respond to them unless we're getting a free gift card or something...and we hate phone calls. Also, Conservatives love smashing polls to make them go the way that no one expected...or wanted. The liberals were manipulated. Putin....the guy is highly intelligent and dangerous. He knew how Trump would react when he complimented him. He knew how Hillary would react, he knew the liberals would immediately start spewing their venom to try and frighten people. Trump knew how easy it would be to push the buttons on the liberals. And he did it, repeatedly. Anything he said would whip them into a frenzy, Many of the states that Trump won...there aren't enough registered republicans and independents combined to sustain the numbers he got. That means a lot of Democrats crossed over to vote for him. I think the more moderate and conservative Democrats were actually frightened by the foaming at the mouth liberals. Along with being burden by the failed liberal agenda. And many Democrats see Hillary as an inept leader and a failure. Short version - The liberals caused Hillary to lose. Maybe now that the Democratic Party is leaderless, they'll purge the liberals. One can hope. mm |
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fwiw....
I don't how I really figured this out, but Friday I predicted to myself that Trump would approach 300 electoral votes. On Sunday with the Comey statement, I downgraded it to 281 votes. I don't know why people thought Clinton could win. I was kinda close. mm |
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fwiw.... I don't how I really figured this out, but Friday I predicted to myself that Trump would approach 300 electoral votes. On Sunday with the Comey statement, I downgraded it to 281 votes. I don't know why people thought Clinton could win. I was kinda close. mm Sure you did. What are the winning Powerball numbers for this week? |
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Sure you did. What are the winning Powerball numbers for this week? The ones on my ticket. Really....I just said to myself, he's gonna get 300 votes. I think she lost the election at the first debate. Alienated people.... and the fanatical liberals sealed the deal. mm |
PFFTTTTTT. People believe the polls. They are usually correct within their claimed margin of error. I don't remember any election polls being further off the mark at any level. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with the results. I hope Trump does not fuck up the entire planet. We will see.
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These are just my observations. I have a different point of view, a kind outside observer with no real interest or stake involved. And the guys here that know me pretty well can attest that I don't see things the same way most of you do, nor do I think the same way as most of you. Fuck, I may not even be able to see or think the way you do. I love getting down to the root cause of something and then solving the problem...and I've made a career from that. This recent campaign and election was damn near a masterpiece in manipulation. First off, the GOP died June 19th, 2016. Maybe we'll end up with a Republican Party or a Conservative Party...we'll see....we should always be up for an adventure. But I kinda see that the old GOP needed to die..change...evolve...whatever. The DNC was manipulated...in many states that Hillary won, more people voted for her than there were registered Democrats for that state. A lot of Asian countries casually observed her nomination, and a lot of them asked, "isn't she a really weak candidate?" I think Sanders wouldn't have won if he were nominated....that Democratic Socialist issue....bad choice of names. O'Malley is the wildcard, proven winner (even if only on the local level), seems like a level headed personable guy....good chance he might have able to pull it off, but the liberals and the millennials didn't like him. The polls were manipulated. First by the media. Polls are so fucking easy to manipulate; use questions that can only be answered the way you want them, target a specific group that will give the answers you want, toss out any questions that didn't get answered the way you want. The media used the polls in an attempt to demoralize the opposition...it didn't work they way they wanted. Second, we all know how much Conservatives love polls...we usually don't respond to them unless we're getting a free gift card or something...and we hate phone calls. Also, Conservatives love smashing polls to make them go the way that no one expected...or wanted. The liberals were manipulated. Putin....the guy is highly intelligent and dangerous. He knew how Trump would react when he complimented him. He knew how Hillary would react, he knew the liberals would immediately start spewing their venom to try and frighten people. Trump knew how easy it would be to push the buttons on the liberals. And he did it, repeatedly. Anything he said would whip them into a frenzy, Many of the states that Trump won...there aren't enough registered republicans and independents combined to sustain the numbers he got. That means a lot of Democrats crossed over to vote for him. I think the more moderate and conservative Democrats were actually frightened by the foaming at the mouth liberals. Along with being burden by the failed liberal agenda. And many Democrats see Hillary as an inept leader and a failure. Short version - The liberals caused Hillary to lose. Maybe now that the Democratic Party is leaderless, they'll purge the liberals. One can hope. mm Hillary caused Hillary to lose. She was never trusted by anyone but her most ardent supporters. The DNC got caught manipulating the primaries in favor of Hillary and a lot of libs didn't like it. They either stayed home, voted 3rd party or voted for Trump. The "stealth voter" was probably real. It looks like a good number of white, college-educated folks voted for Trump but probably never admitted to any pollster. Voter turnout, or the lack of it, in certain states and communities hurt Hillary. Polls are generally very accurate. I doubt they were intentionally manipulated but it appears that the pollsters missed some indicators that they should have taken into consideration. Plus, the polls were damn near neck and neck a couple of days before election day, so they weren't that far off. Trump won the states he needed to win and you have to give him credit for that. But, Hillary still won the popular vote and I think a better Democratic candidate, like Jim Webb, or hell, just about anyone but Hillary, could have taken the election. |
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Trump won the states he needed to win and you have to give him credit for that. But, Hillary still won the popular vote and I think a better Democratic candidate, like Jim Webb, or hell, just about anyone but Hillary, could have taken the election. But winning the popular vote doesn't guarantee a win. That's spelled out up front, those are the rules and hence how the game is played. That's why everyone focused on winning the swing states and not California, Texas and New York. It would be a different campaign if it was strictly popular vote. I'm ok with the way it is. I don't like the idea of giving control to very small urban inner city areas. They have a very different set of issues than the rest of us. |
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The ones on my ticket. Really....I just said to myself, he's gonna get 300 votes. I think she lost the election at the first debate. Alienated people.... and the fanatical liberals sealed the deal. mm Quoted:
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Sure you did. What are the winning Powerball numbers for this week? The ones on my ticket. Really....I just said to myself, he's gonna get 300 votes. I think she lost the election at the first debate. Alienated people.... and the fanatical liberals sealed the deal. mm The final counts for electoral votes are not complete. He will have over 300. Not to mention popular vote will be so close it will squeak. We wont see this until next week. http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president |
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But winning the popular vote doesn't guarantee a win. That's spelled out up front, those are the rules and hence how the game is played. That's why everyone focused on winning the swing states and not California, Texas and New York. It would be a different campaign if it was strictly popular vote. I'm ok with the way it is. I don't like the idea of giving control to very small urban inner city areas. They have a very different set of issues than the rest of us. Quoted:
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Trump won the states he needed to win and you have to give him credit for that. But, Hillary still won the popular vote and I think a better Democratic candidate, like Jim Webb, or hell, just about anyone but Hillary, could have taken the election. But winning the popular vote doesn't guarantee a win. That's spelled out up front, those are the rules and hence how the game is played. That's why everyone focused on winning the swing states and not California, Texas and New York. It would be a different campaign if it was strictly popular vote. I'm ok with the way it is. I don't like the idea of giving control to very small urban inner city areas. They have a very different set of issues than the rest of us. I understand how the election works and I'm not advocating changing the electoral college. It's one of the examples of how smart our Founding Fathers were. My point was that despite her nature and how much people didn't like her she still got plenty of votes, she just didn't get them were she needed them. Trump did his job but I think a Dem who was a little bit more likable could have pulled in some of those swing states. Not every one who voted for Trump did it because they love the guy. This election is about Hillary being a horrible candidate more than it is about Trump being a great one. |
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People woke up and it was enough THIS TIME to overcome manipulation, corruption, and fraud.
Let's just hope 1) people stay awake and cause those in denial to wake the fuck up 2) those media outlets individuals, particularly millennials, will now be turning to do not take advantage of increased trust and 3) Trump stays true to his promise and dismantles the establishment from the inside out. The war on the corrupt establishment has not been won it is just beginning. |
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People woke up and it was enough THIS TIME to overcome manipulation, corruption, and fraud. Let's just hope 1) people stay awake and cause those in denial to wake the fuck up 2) those media outlets individuals, particularly millennials, will now be turning to do not take advantage of increased trust and 3) Trump stays true to his promise and dismantles the establishment from the inside out. The war on the corrupt establishment has not been won it is just beginning. I'll admit up front that I'm very cynical about people in general and politicians in particular so I'm don't expect any earth shattering changes in the next four years. It's enough for me that Hillary won't be picking replacements to SCOTUS and, maybe, Trump will walk back some of Obama's Executive Orders. Plus, we appear to be less likely to be involved in a shooting war with Russia, so that's good. |
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The ones on my ticket. Really....I just said to myself, he's gonna get 300 votes. I think she lost the election at the first debate. Alienated people.... and the fanatical liberals sealed the deal. mm Quoted:
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Sure you did. What are the winning Powerball numbers for this week? The ones on my ticket. Really....I just said to myself, he's gonna get 300 votes. I think she lost the election at the first debate. Alienated people.... and the fanatical liberals sealed the deal. mm IMO... The two factors that helped Trump win the election: The emails that FBI investigating a week and half before the election really re-enforced the undecided voters to vote for Trump and the last effort to campaign again at some of the swing states by Trump. To win the election, you have to win some of the battle states. |
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The war on the corrupt establishment has not been won it is just beginning. Agreed. I'm not a "Trump Supporter" but I am conservative. And this election is a big finger to the "establishment" and hopefully a pivot point for common sense and fiscal responsibility. - Eliminate Obamacare - Revamp Tax Code - Energy Independence - Shrink Government - Balance Budget - Set the Supreme Court - Fix Immigration - Strengthen Military - Lock up Criminals Just to get started..... |
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I told my co-worker that Trump would win as people are too sick of the BS and Hillary sucks/lies. I won a case of beer from my co-worker that voted for HiIllary.
I put my money where my mouth was. 
Edit to add: Agreed. I'm not a "Trump Supporter" but I am conservative. And this election is a big finger to the "establishment" and hopefully a pivot point for common sense and fiscal responsibility. - Eliminate Obamacare - Revamp Tax Code - Energy Independence - Shrink Government - Balance Budget - Set the Supreme Court - Fix Immigration - Strengthen Military - Lock up Criminals Hang criminals Just to get started..... |
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2008 Obama got 69M votes 2012 Obama got 65M votes 2016 Clinton got 59M votes That is how she lost. Voters did not show up. Distribute that electorally and it is easy to see how she lost. Yep and Trump got about a million less than Romney. So turnout affected the whole race, he was just better at getting folks to the polls than she was. |
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Which is irrelevant because Trump (and others) would run an entirely different campaign if the goal was to win popular vote. Quoted:
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But, Hillary still won the popular vote Which is irrelevant because Trump (and others) would run an entirely different campaign if the goal was to win popular vote. I understand the popular vote is irrelevant to winning the Presidential election. But is is a statistic that has value after the fact. She got a lot of votes in the swing states, just not enough. My point is that a "better" Dem candidate might have been able to energize all those Dems who stayed home in the swing states. I apologize for not being clearer. |
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I understand the popular vote is irrelevant to winning the Presidential election. But is is a statistic that has value after the fact. Quoted:
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But, Hillary still won the popular vote Which is irrelevant because Trump (and others) would run an entirely different campaign if the goal was to win popular vote. I understand the popular vote is irrelevant to winning the Presidential election. But is is a statistic that has value after the fact. No, it is irrelevant and has NO value because candidates did NOT try to win popular vote. It would be like point out which golfer finished the round of 18 first. That is not the goal. Lots of folks do not vote in states that are reliably R or D. |
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No, it is irrelevant and has NO value because candidates did NOT try to win popular vote. It would be like point out which golfer finished the round of 18 first. That is not the goal. Lots of folks do not vote in states that are reliably R or D. Quoted:
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But, Hillary still won the popular vote Which is irrelevant because Trump (and others) would run an entirely different campaign if the goal was to win popular vote. I understand the popular vote is irrelevant to winning the Presidential election. But is is a statistic that has value after the fact. No, it is irrelevant and has NO value because candidates did NOT try to win popular vote. It would be like point out which golfer finished the round of 18 first. That is not the goal. Lots of folks do not vote in states that are reliably R or D. You're absolutely right and I clearly chose the wrong line of reasoning to make my point. |
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You're absolutely right and I clearly chose the wrong line of reasoning to make my point. Quoted:
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But, Hillary still won the popular vote Which is irrelevant because Trump (and others) would run an entirely different campaign if the goal was to win popular vote. I understand the popular vote is irrelevant to winning the Presidential election. But is is a statistic that has value after the fact. No, it is irrelevant and has NO value because candidates did NOT try to win popular vote. It would be like point out which golfer finished the round of 18 first. That is not the goal. Lots of folks do not vote in states that are reliably R or D. You're absolutely right and I clearly chose the wrong line of reasoning to make my point. No problem, these are my talking points when libtards tried to marginalize Bush43. still work now. |
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Yep and Trump got about a million less than Romney. So turnout affected the whole race, he was just better at getting folks to the polls than she was. Quoted:
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2008 Obama got 69M votes 2012 Obama got 65M votes 2016 Clinton got 59M votes That is how she lost. Voters did not show up. Distribute that electorally and it is easy to see how she lost. Yep and Trump got about a million less than Romney. So turnout affected the whole race, he was just better at getting folks to the polls than she was. No, I think Hillary was better at getting people to the polls - to vote against her. |
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Thanks for the replies. You all are making it a wonderful thread.
I can see while point of views may be similar, but each individual point of view is just that....an indvidual. We're debating, learning, teaching, explaining. Not arguing, fighting or melting down. mm |
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She lost because she is a lying cunt and a criminal that is responsible for getting people killed.
The DNC could have had a easy time winning if they got a different candidate. They decided to rig their primary and screw over their party. The same thing can be said about the GOP. They wanted to rig the primary but pullled back real quick when they started to see what the DNC was doing and just assumed Trump would burn out. Now the GOP has to try and fix their image. |
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Hillary caused Hillary to lose. She was never trusted by anyone but her most ardent supporters. The DNC got caught manipulating the primaries in favor of Hillary and a lot of libs didn't like it. They either stayed home, voted 3rd party or voted for Trump. The "stealth voter" was probably real. It looks like a good number of white, college-educated folks voted for Trump but probably never admitted to any pollster. Voter turnout, or the lack of it, in certain states and communities hurt Hillary. Polls are generally very accurate. I doubt they were intentionally manipulated but it appears that the pollsters missed some indicators that they should have taken into consideration. Plus, the polls were damn near neck and neck a couple of days before election day, so they weren't that far off. Trump won the states he needed to win and you have to give him credit for that. But, Hillary still won the popular vote and I think a better Democratic candidate, like Jim Webb, or hell, just about anyone but Hillary, could have taken the election. Quoted:
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These are just my observations. I have a different point of view, a kind outside observer with no real interest or stake involved. And the guys here that know me pretty well can attest that I don't see things the same way most of you do, nor do I think the same way as most of you. Fuck, I may not even be able to see or think the way you do. I love getting down to the root cause of something and then solving the problem...and I've made a career from that. This recent campaign and election was damn near a masterpiece in manipulation. First off, the GOP died June 19th, 2016. Maybe we'll end up with a Republican Party or a Conservative Party...we'll see....we should always be up for an adventure. But I kinda see that the old GOP needed to die..change...evolve...whatever. The DNC was manipulated...in many states that Hillary won, more people voted for her than there were registered Democrats for that state. A lot of Asian countries casually observed her nomination, and a lot of them asked, "isn't she a really weak candidate?" I think Sanders wouldn't have won if he were nominated....that Democratic Socialist issue....bad choice of names. O'Malley is the wildcard, proven winner (even if only on the local level), seems like a level headed personable guy....good chance he might have able to pull it off, but the liberals and the millennials didn't like him. The polls were manipulated. First by the media. Polls are so fucking easy to manipulate; use questions that can only be answered the way you want them, target a specific group that will give the answers you want, toss out any questions that didn't get answered the way you want. The media used the polls in an attempt to demoralize the opposition...it didn't work they way they wanted. Second, we all know how much Conservatives love polls...we usually don't respond to them unless we're getting a free gift card or something...and we hate phone calls. Also, Conservatives love smashing polls to make them go the way that no one expected...or wanted. The liberals were manipulated. Putin....the guy is highly intelligent and dangerous. He knew how Trump would react when he complimented him. He knew how Hillary would react, he knew the liberals would immediately start spewing their venom to try and frighten people. Trump knew how easy it would be to push the buttons on the liberals. And he did it, repeatedly. Anything he said would whip them into a frenzy, Many of the states that Trump won...there aren't enough registered republicans and independents combined to sustain the numbers he got. That means a lot of Democrats crossed over to vote for him. I think the more moderate and conservative Democrats were actually frightened by the foaming at the mouth liberals. Along with being burden by the failed liberal agenda. And many Democrats see Hillary as an inept leader and a failure. Short version - The liberals caused Hillary to lose. Maybe now that the Democratic Party is leaderless, they'll purge the liberals. One can hope. mm Hillary caused Hillary to lose. She was never trusted by anyone but her most ardent supporters. The DNC got caught manipulating the primaries in favor of Hillary and a lot of libs didn't like it. They either stayed home, voted 3rd party or voted for Trump. The "stealth voter" was probably real. It looks like a good number of white, college-educated folks voted for Trump but probably never admitted to any pollster. Voter turnout, or the lack of it, in certain states and communities hurt Hillary. Polls are generally very accurate. I doubt they were intentionally manipulated but it appears that the pollsters missed some indicators that they should have taken into consideration. Plus, the polls were damn near neck and neck a couple of days before election day, so they weren't that far off. Trump won the states he needed to win and you have to give him credit for that. But, Hillary still won the popular vote and I think a better Democratic candidate, like Jim Webb, or hell, just about anyone but Hillary, could have taken the election. A LOT of people wouldn't admit it upfront to Polls or sometimes to people they know that they were voting for Trump, because the Media tried so hard to manipulate his image as Satan incarnate and him, (and his supporters) as all Racists,Rapist, Ignorant, In Bred, & Just The Worst of America (According to the leftist Media)... The Media worked overtime to Scream - "YOU MUST VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON OR YOU ARE AS EVIL AS DONALD TRUMP!!!!" Trumps election was a lot about "The Average People" rising up & deservingly giving Big Left Media "The Finger' ... |
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer.
there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. |
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump |
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You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. |
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Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. May have been true in the past but if you don't think Texas can be a swing state... you're just in denial. |
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May have been true in the past but if you don't think Texas can be a swing state... you're just in denial. Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. May have been true in the past but if you don't think Texas can be a swing state... you're just in denial. I was only speaking of this election and this election only. I am well aware that there are plots afoot to turn Texas blue. ETA: and there was only a 10% spread between R's and D's this election vs. a 16% spread in 2012. I just hope that is a reflection of the candidates and not a trend. |
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You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump The chart I just saw showed that Trump took the vast majority of white, no college vote; a larger percentage than Hillary of the white male with college vote; about 40% or so of the white female with college vote and around 25% of the minority vote. I think this still more a case of who didn't show up for her than who showed up for him. I started thinking this morning about how much her primary performance against Bernie probably damaged her. The Bernie supporters never trusted her that much and her solid supporters saw how easily she morphed into a Bernie clone to get the vote. That and the obvious manipulation by the DNC and the Donna Brazille types generated a lot of distrust. So how many of the folks who had intended to support her ended up voting for Trump? How many of them stayed home or voted third party? It was very noticeable during the campaign that her numbers went up when she stayed out of the limelight. When she went on the news or released statements her numbers would go down a bit. When she wasn't taking up air time people started looking at her more favorably and when she spoke people started to remember why they didn't like her. At the end of the day she's a really nasty person who thinks nothing of manipulating her followers and enough people saw it. That's not to take anything away from Trump, he did what he had to do to win. He won the red states and flipped the swing states. He took advantage of her weaknesses which is what you're supposed to do. |
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Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. If we, as a country, want to be more conservative in the future, then it's the big and only reason. POTUS is a short term thing. SCOTUS is THE long term thing. |
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<snip> If we, as a country, want to be more conservative in the future, then it's the big and only reason. POTUS is a short term thing. SCOTUS is THE long term thing. The thing that really worries me about Trump, is that he is just as likely to get mad at Republicans in Congress and decide to nominate a moderate judge just because he can. |
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The thing that really worries me about Trump, is that he is just as likely to get mad at Republicans in Congress and decide to nominate a moderate judge just because he can. Quoted:
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<snip> If we, as a country, want to be more conservative in the future, then it's the big and only reason. POTUS is a short term thing. SCOTUS is THE long term thing. The thing that really worries me about Trump, is that he is just as likely to get mad at Republicans in Congress and decide to nominate a moderate judge just because he can. I would take a moderate over what Hillary would have nominated. Think about this as well, if Hillary had won and the Senate had flipped blue then Ginsberg or Breyer or both would have felt more comfortable in retiring. With Trump in office and the Senate red until 2018 then I'll bet neither leaves until the next election. If the Senate flips in 2018 which just might happen, then the Notorious RBG and Breyer might leave. If not, they will try and hang around until 2020 and see if a Dem gets elected. Both are pretty old but they seem healthy and it's not like they have a physically hard job. So Trump definitely has Scalia's spot to fill and hopefully he makes a good pick and we are back to status quo. If one of the libs leaves or croaks then he gets another shot. Unless Trump picks a David Souter type like Daddy Bush picked then we sill probably be okay. I would be very happy with another Scalia but I would settle for an Anthony Kennedy. |
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I would take a moderate over what Hillary would have nominated. Think about this as well, if Hillary had won and the Senate had flipped blue then Ginsberg or Breyer or both would have felt more comfortable in retiring. With Trump in office and the Senate red until 2018 then I'll bet neither leaves until the next election. If the Senate flips in 2018 which just might happen, then the Notorious RBG and Breyer might leave. If not, they will try and hang around until 2020 and see if a Dem gets elected. Both are pretty old but they seem healthy and it's not like they have a physically hard job. So Trump definitely has Scalia's spot to fill and hopefully he makes a good pick and we are back to status quo. If one of the libs leaves or croaks then he gets another shot. Unless Trump picks a David Souter type like Daddy Bush picked then we sill probably be okay. I would be very happy with another Scalia but I would settle for an Anthony Kennedy. Quoted:
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<snip> If we, as a country, want to be more conservative in the future, then it's the big and only reason. POTUS is a short term thing. SCOTUS is THE long term thing. The thing that really worries me about Trump, is that he is just as likely to get mad at Republicans in Congress and decide to nominate a moderate judge just because he can. I would take a moderate over what Hillary would have nominated. Think about this as well, if Hillary had won and the Senate had flipped blue then Ginsberg or Breyer or both would have felt more comfortable in retiring. With Trump in office and the Senate red until 2018 then I'll bet neither leaves until the next election. If the Senate flips in 2018 which just might happen, then the Notorious RBG and Breyer might leave. If not, they will try and hang around until 2020 and see if a Dem gets elected. Both are pretty old but they seem healthy and it's not like they have a physically hard job. So Trump definitely has Scalia's spot to fill and hopefully he makes a good pick and we are back to status quo. If one of the libs leaves or croaks then he gets another shot. Unless Trump picks a David Souter type like Daddy Bush picked then we sill probably be okay. I would be very happy with another Scalia but I would settle for an Anthony Kennedy. I agree and that is what ultimately got me to vote for him. But Kennedy and Breyer are both a little too moderate for my comfort level. |
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Breyer is a full blown leftist. Did you mean Roberts? Quoted:
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But Kennedy and Breyer are both a little too moderate for my comfort level. Breyer is a full blown leftist. Did you mean Roberts? This is true. I actually don't mind Kennedy since I'm more of a libertarian anyway but Roberts pissed me off with him deferring to Congress on the ACA instead of voting it down as he should have. |
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Breyer is a full blown leftist. Did you mean Roberts? Quoted:
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But Kennedy and Breyer are both a little too moderate for my comfort level. Breyer is a full blown leftist. Did you mean Roberts? My mistake..... Roberts I'm in bed sick and on drugs.....
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This is an interesting take on Hillary's side of things. What's the name of that river in Egypt?
Clinton aids blame loss on everything but themselves. I found it real interesting that they ignored Bill advice on how to run the campaign. It might have helped them if they had listened. |
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It's simple numbers.
Trump got less than McCain or Romney in pure counts. Independents stayed about same. Hillary got a LOT less than Obama, and lost in some important winner take all states. Hillary lost because of 1) Hillary 2) Hillary 3) DNC rigging election pissing off democratic voters. |
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Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. I think you came to the conclusion that most did. Anyone that voted third wasted their vote. I don't care what anyone says but a third party vote for a party that has no chance to win is a wasted vote no matter how you try and reason it. The part that I hate is those that refused to vote because he was going to win Texas no matter what. All that does is show a hole in the red wall for the DNC to attack. If they know a area is solid red they will not waste their time there. If they see a drop in the numbers they will start to spend money there over the next several years because they go for the long game and the individual goes for the short game. |
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I was only speaking of this election and this election only. I am well aware that there are plots afoot to turn Texas blue. ETA: and there was only a 10% spread between R's and D's this election vs. a 16% spread in 2012. I just hope that is a reflection of the candidates and not a trend. Quoted:
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The polls were actually accurate, for the people that would answer. there were probably people that wouldn't admit to voting for Trump, but it appears a lot of people (me included) were pretty much undecided until they got into the booth and decided to go with Trump. You were thinking of going for her or third party ? Also when you look at the exit poll data only an additional 1% of white people voted for Trump vs Romney . The amount of minority's that voted for Trump vs what Romney got was huge. With that info that means that the minority vote elected Trump Honestly, for the longest time I was not going to vote at all. It would be the first time that I would have not voted for president, a few of my friends ended up voting Libertarian. End the end, I decided I hated her more than I dislike him. Besides, being Texas, he was going to carry this state whether I voted or not. But when I got in there and was looking at the screen....... all I could think of was the Supreme Court, so I voted Trump. God knows what he will do over the next 4 yrs. May have been true in the past but if you don't think Texas can be a swing state... you're just in denial. I was only speaking of this election and this election only. I am well aware that there are plots afoot to turn Texas blue. ETA: and there was only a 10% spread between R's and D's this election vs. a 16% spread in 2012. I just hope that is a reflection of the candidates and not a trend. Unfortunately it's a trend. Now it is a trend that can be broke but only if people stay united. |
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I think you came to the conclusion that most did. Anyone that voted third wasted their vote. I don't care what anyone says but a third party vote for a party that has no chance to win is a wasted vote no matter how you try and reason it. The part that I hate is those that refused to vote because he was going to win Texas no matter what. All that does is show a hole in the red wall for the DNC to attack. If they know a area is solid red they will not waste their time there. If they see a drop in the numbers they will start to spend money there over the next several years because they go for the long game and the individual goes for the short game. You should vote for the person you want to be in the office, not between who you think can win. This election, I really did not want any of them, including the 3rd party people, I was tempted to leave the president blank, but it came down to who I wanted to vote against the most. The candidate is supposed to earn your vote, none of them earned mine this time. In fact, Trump clearly said that he did not need my vote or want my vote. As for not voting, that is still a choice that people are free to make. Trump won because Hillary did not motivate enough people to go out and vote for her. |
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You should vote for the person you want to be in the office, not between who you think can win. This election, I really did not want any of them, including the 3rd party people, I was tempted to leave the president blank, but it came down to who I wanted to vote against the most. The candidate is supposed to earn your vote, none of them earned mine this time. In fact, Trump clearly said that he did not need my vote or want my vote. As for not voting, that is still a choice that people are free to make. Trump won because Hillary did not motivate enough people to go out and vote for her. Quoted:
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I think you came to the conclusion that most did. Anyone that voted third wasted their vote. I don't care what anyone says but a third party vote for a party that has no chance to win is a wasted vote no matter how you try and reason it. The part that I hate is those that refused to vote because he was going to win Texas no matter what. All that does is show a hole in the red wall for the DNC to attack. If they know a area is solid red they will not waste their time there. If they see a drop in the numbers they will start to spend money there over the next several years because they go for the long game and the individual goes for the short game. You should vote for the person you want to be in the office, not between who you think can win. This election, I really did not want any of them, including the 3rd party people, I was tempted to leave the president blank, but it came down to who I wanted to vote against the most. The candidate is supposed to earn your vote, none of them earned mine this time. In fact, Trump clearly said that he did not need my vote or want my vote. As for not voting, that is still a choice that people are free to make. Trump won because Hillary did not motivate enough people to go out and vote for her. Not to pick a fight but I think you are thinking of an election in the wrong way. You should vote for the person that will get you what your looking for. If you wait to vote on who you like you will never vote and or most likely never vote for a winning candidate. For me I made the decision that Trump would represent the best chance I would get for who would be appointed to SCOTUS. I could have placed anyone's name besides Trump I wished on the ballot but they had zero chance of winning. For my whole adult life I have never voted on anyone I really liked. I always had to vote for the person that represented the best chance of me getting what I wanted. Some may say that is a bad way to look at it but I am also a realist and don't wish to get screwed to hard. |
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Not to pick a fight but I think you are thinking of an election in the wrong way. You should vote for the person that will get you what your looking for. If you wait to vote on who you like you will never vote and or most likely never vote for a winning candidate. For me I made the decision that Trump would represent the best chance I would get for who would be appointed to SCOTUS. I could have placed anyone's name besides Trump I wished on the ballot but they had zero chance of winning. For my whole adult life I have never voted on anyone I really liked. I always had to vote for the person that represented the best chance of me getting what I wanted. Some may say that is a bad way to look at it but I am also a realist and don't wish to get screwed to hard. Quoted:
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I think you came to the conclusion that most did. Anyone that voted third wasted their vote. I don't care what anyone says but a third party vote for a party that has no chance to win is a wasted vote no matter how you try and reason it. The part that I hate is those that refused to vote because he was going to win Texas no matter what. All that does is show a hole in the red wall for the DNC to attack. If they know a area is solid red they will not waste their time there. If they see a drop in the numbers they will start to spend money there over the next several years because they go for the long game and the individual goes for the short game. You should vote for the person you want to be in the office, not between who you think can win. This election, I really did not want any of them, including the 3rd party people, I was tempted to leave the president blank, but it came down to who I wanted to vote against the most. The candidate is supposed to earn your vote, none of them earned mine this time. In fact, Trump clearly said that he did not need my vote or want my vote. As for not voting, that is still a choice that people are free to make. Trump won because Hillary did not motivate enough people to go out and vote for her. Not to pick a fight but I think you are thinking of an election in the wrong way. You should vote for the person that will get you what your looking for. If you wait to vote on who you like you will never vote and or most likely never vote for a winning candidate. For me I made the decision that Trump would represent the best chance I would get for who would be appointed to SCOTUS. I could have placed anyone's name besides Trump I wished on the ballot but they had zero chance of winning. For my whole adult life I have never voted on anyone I really liked. I always had to vote for the person that represented the best chance of me getting what I wanted. Some may say that is a bad way to look at it but I am also a realist and don't wish to get screwed to hard. "Vote for the person you like" was a poor choice of words on my part. I guess I'm lucky, because I really liked Ronald Reagan and got to vote for him twice. Our only disagreement is that I don't think voting 3rd party is a wasted vote, if you think that person is the best for the job. Maybe not voting at all is a wasted vote, but then, that is also a decision people make and why Hillary lost. It appears a lot of democrats could not vote for her or Trump, so they stayed home. I think it really does comes down to "Voting your conscience" - I know Cruz pissed a lot of people off with that. I know a few people that voted for Gary Johnson, because they believed he was the best person. I would not tell them they wasted their vote, at least they voted. It would be interesting to see if "None of the Above" was an option what the outcome would have been. I made my final decision based who Trump said he would appoint to the SCOTUS. But I have no idea what he may or may not do over the next 4 yrs, and everyone that voted for him has to take some responsibility for the outcome. |