Posted: 1/13/2013 12:49:11 PM EDT
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I'm past time for renewal. Time flies.
Who's running good CHL classes in DFW? Preference toward Denton... Thanks folks! |
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I did mine through DFW gun in Dallas (as did 5 of my friends). All had good experiences.
http://www.dfwgun.com/training/calendar |
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There's a married couple that does their class at Cabelas. I cant remember the company name for the life of me right now though.
Marty and Linda. I'll hunt around for the name and website. Really nice people, they used to teach for me when I had a small gunshop in N Fort Worth. OK, here it is. http://www.crossfire-training.com/content/home.html |
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Sgt Keith McGuire out of Ft Worth... I think every saturday..probably around 11am to 4pm for renewal...you are short on time I imagine...don't you have like 60 days from expiration and then you have to start a NEW Application?
McGuire is pretty cool, but I question his knowledge of the parking lot law...he was tired from staying up late..who knows http://www.safeshot.com/ |
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Sgt Keith McGuire out of Ft Worth... I think every saturday..probably around 11am to 4pm for renewal...you are short on time I imagine...don't you have like 60 days from expiration and then you have to start a NEW Application? McGuire is pretty cool, but I question his knowledge of the parking lot law...he was tired from staying up late..who knows http://www.safeshot.com/ No, a person does not have to start over unless his license expires over a year. What did the Sgt say about the parking lot lot that causes you to doubt him? |
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Sgt Keith McGuire out of Ft Worth... I think every saturday..probably around 11am to 4pm for renewal...you are short on time I imagine...don't you have like 60 days from expiration and then you have to start a NEW Application? McGuire is pretty cool, but I question his knowledge of the parking lot law...he was tired from staying up late..who knows http://www.safeshot.com/ No, a person does not have to start over unless his license expires over a year. What did the Sgt say about the parking lot lot that causes you to doubt him? I wasn't sure on the duration of expiration, in Michigan you did a renewal whether it was 5 days or 10 years after your CCW/CPL expired. It's all subject to change...for example it used to be you had to reside in texas 6 months before you could get a CHL here, now it is not. McGuire stated you couldn't have a firearm in your car at your place of employment...this was at the end of the class session and after he got confused in regards to some things regarding your employer and employee rules, the 30.06 signage. I think he was just tired.. and SB 321 is fairly new so not sure he is up to date. Some of the questions asked were about the signage rule and about parking lots and about rules for employees. Example: If you work for a business and that business is open to the public but they do not post a 30.06 sign on the front door that does not mean that the employee can carry inside that place of business during working hours, the employer could prohibit employees from carrying at work while working, BUT they cannot prevent them from keeping their gun in their vehicle in the parking lot in accordance with SB 321. The employer cannot determine on their own who can keep their guns in their parking lot, that is done solely through SB 321. You had to be in the class to see the whole situation. McGuire is a good man and a good teacher, he just made a mistake is all, and it's a new law. Just if you go to get a CHL print off a copy of SB 321 and ask questions about it, no matter who you go through. BTW not bragging but I got 50 out of 50 on the written and McGuire looked up at me with a kind of double take and look of disbelief, pretty sure the thoughts inside his head were "YOU, you of all people, you look so stupid how could you have achieved a PERFECT SCORE" rotflmao |
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Sgt Keith McGuire out of Ft Worth... I think every saturday..probably around 11am to 4pm for renewal...you are short on time I imagine...don't you have like 60 days from expiration and then you have to start a NEW Application? McGuire is pretty cool, but I question his knowledge of the parking lot law...he was tired from staying up late..who knows http://www.safeshot.com/ No, a person does not have to start over unless his license expires over a year. What did the Sgt say about the parking lot lot that causes you to doubt him? I wasn't sure on the duration of expiration, in Michigan you did a renewal whether it was 5 days or 10 years after your CCW/CPL expired. It's all subject to change...for example it used to be you had to reside in texas 6 months before you could get a CHL here, now it is not. McGuire stated you couldn't have a firearm in your car at your place of employment...this was at the end of the class session and after he got confused in regards to some things regarding your employer and employee rules, the 30.06 signage. I think he was just tired.. and SB 321 is fairly new so not sure he is up to date. Some of the questions asked were about the signage rule and about parking lots and about rules for employees. Example: If you work for a business and that business is open to the public but they do not post a 30.06 sign on the front door that does not mean that the employee can carry inside that place of business during working hours, the employer could prohibit employees from carrying at work while working, BUT they cannot prevent them from keeping their gun in their vehicle in the parking lot in accordance with SB 321. The employer cannot determine on their own who can keep their guns in their parking lot, that is done solely through SB 321. You had to be in the class to see the whole situation. McGuire is a good man and a good teacher, he just made a mistake is all, and it's a new law. Just if you go to get a CHL print off a copy of SB 321 and ask questions about it, no matter who you go through. BTW not bragging but I got 50 out of 50 on the written and McGuire looked up at me with a kind of double take and look of disbelief, pretty sure the thoughts inside his head were "YOU, you of all people, you look so stupid how could you have achieved a PERFECT SCORE" rotflmao The paking lot law (BTW, use of "SB321" is no longer approproiate unless you cite the session and year because a new session is in progress) is weak, at best. It made a change to the labor code and tells employers they cannot have a policy prohibiting employees from keeping lawfully posessed firearms and ammunition in the employees car on the employers parking lot. However, there is no remedy if the employer has such a policy. The law gives no right or priviledge to the employee. Also, there are many exceptions to the law. I don't think a law that went into effect in September of 2011 is what I'd call a "new law". Good score on the test. I prefer it when my students score well. The more perfect scores the better. ;) |
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The paking lot law (BTW, use of "SB321" is no longer approproiate unless you cite the session and year because a new session is in progress) is weak, at best. It made a change to the labor code and tells employers they cannot have a policy prohibiting employees from keeping lawfully posessed firearms and ammunition in the employees car on the employers parking lot. However, there is no remedy if the employer has such a policy. The law gives no right or priviledge to the employee. Also, there are many exceptions to the law. I don't think a law that went into effect in September of 2011 is what I'd call a "new law". Good score on the test. I prefer it when my students score well. The more perfect scores the better. ;) http://tx.opengovernment.org/sessions/82/bills/sb-321 It became law 9-1-11 so employers cannot prohibit it unless you fall under one of the 'exceptions' included in the bill http://tx.opengovernment.org/system/bill_documents/001/190/177/original/SB00321S.htm?1308733674 my buddy at work said the same thing, but if your employer fires you for this then you could sue for wrongful termination, as the law says they cannot prohibit you..what 'remedy' is the law supposed to state? |
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Yes, I wrote that the law became effective 9-1-11.
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The paking lot law (BTW, use of "SB321" is no longer approproiate unless you cite the session and year because a new session is in progress) is weak, at best. It made a change to the labor code and tells employers they cannot have a policy prohibiting employees from keeping lawfully posessed firearms and ammunition in the employees car on the employers parking lot. However, there is no remedy if the employer has such a policy. The law gives no right or priviledge to the employee. Also, there are many exceptions to the law. I don't think a law that went into effect in September of 2011 is what I'd call a "new law". Good score on the test. I prefer it when my students score well. The more perfect scores the better. ;) http://tx.opengovernment.org/sessions/82/bills/sb-321 It became law 9-1-11 so employers cannot prohibit it unless you fall under one of the 'exceptions' included in the bill I realize what the law says, but what remedy is available to you if your employer has a policy in violation of that law? Who would you complain to? What state agency enforces this law, and what is the penalty for a company violating such law? If you carry in spite of an unlawful policy and are fired, can you afford an attorney while unemployed and with no source of income? I will leave this with an exerpt from Walker, Wisdom & Rice, P.C, in a newsletter from last year regarding this issue; Employee Parking Lots:
Many of you may be wondering if a school employee is treated differently by state law than a person visiting the school. As stated earlier, even if a person does not have a CHL, they are allowed to possess a loaded, concealed handgun in their motor vehicle, pursuant to Texas Penal Code §46.02(a)(2). Since parking lots are not considered school premises (TPC §46.035(f)(3)), both a CHL holder and a non-CHL holder can possess a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle on a school parking lot without violating state criminal law. Even though, concealed firearms are allowed to be kept in a motor vehicle located in school parking lots, employees of schools may be prohibited by their employer, the school, as a condition of continued employment, from having a concealed weapon stored in their vehicle. This issue along with many others has arisen in the wake of SB 321, the employer parking lot law. This law was eventually placed into the Texas statutes as Texas Labor Code §§52.061-52.064. As we wrote in our newsletters during the Texas legislative session, this law is far from the fix all for gun owners with regard to employer parking lots that it was touted to be. The stated purpose of the law was to legally protect all Texas firearms owners, both CHL holders and non-CHL holders, from their employers' prohibitions against lawfully keeping firearms in their locked motor vehicles. With regard to this stated goal, the law falls short. Many of our clients have contacted us concerning policies which their employers have circulated after SB 321 was passed. Most of these policies have been promulgated by large interstate and multi-national corporations. They have included examples of employee policies which state that the new law only applies to CHL holders and that non-CHL holders continue to be prohibited from keeping firearms in their automobiles. Some employers are requiring that all employees who intend on keeping firearms in their vehicle must register themselves, their vehicle, and their firearm with human resources. Some employers have decreed that an employee who intends on carrying a firearm in their motor vehicle may only carry one firearm. Many employers have also made it part of their policies that their employees must agree in advance to random searches of their vehicles by company security. These requirements place a great burden on employees who wish to exercise their Constitutional rights and their God given right to self-defense. Unfortunately, the Texas Legislature did not write a bill which was or is clear, straightforward or enforceable. In addition, the Texas Employer Parking Lot law is unclear in that it contains contradictory language which allows it to be logically interpreted as applying only to CHL holders, instead of to all lawful gun owners. Many employers have adopted this interpretation. In addition, the law was written to except out many employers, such as schools, chemical manufacturing facilities and oil and gas refineries, and companies whose primary business is the manufacture, use, storage or transportation of hazardous, combustible or explosive materials. The law also excludes employees who drive motor vehicles owned or leased by the employer. Many employers have written rules to exploit these exceptions and have attempted to apply them to parking lots and circumstances for which it was not intended. Further, as we stated in our previous newsletters, the Texas law does not provide for any enforcement provisions or penalties to the employer who violates an employees' rights under this law. This was a glaring omission from the law. Particularly, since Chapter 52 of the Labor Code contains several other miscellaneous restrictions on employer action (including one that says an agricultural employer must give an employee a hoe that has at least a four foot handle), all of which contain some form of civil or criminal penalty for employer violations. However, there is nothing to protect the lawful gun-carrying employee from the unreasonable regulations and restrictions of an overzealous employer. In many ways the law is only symbolic. Several other states have addressed this issue in a far more comprehensive way than Texas. Oklahoma has a very straightforward law which is stated in one clear, understandable sentence. Florida has a lengthy comprehensive law that contains a legislative statement of validation of a person's right to self-defense with a firearm. The Florida law also contains a very strong enforceability mechanism that allows an aggrieved employee or the State Attorney General to seek civil damages, injunctive remedies, administrative remedies and attorney's fees and costs, against an employer who infringes on an employee's right to lawfully keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle. Unfortunately, the best advice we can give our clients if faced with an employer who aggressively seeks to regulate their employees who keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle, is that you may be right, but you still may be fired with no recourse. Unfortunately, this is the current state of the law. We hope that this has cleared up any confusion and we are pleased to offer any advice or assistance to any of our clients as part of their Texas Law Shield membership. Stay Safe, Edwin Walker Attorney at Law / Vice-President Walker, Rice & Wisdom, P.C. |
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Yes, I wrote that the law became effective 9-1-11.
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The paking lot law (BTW, use of "SB321" is no longer approproiate unless you cite the session and year because a new session is in progress) is weak, at best. It made a change to the labor code and tells employers they cannot have a policy prohibiting employees from keeping lawfully posessed firearms and ammunition in the employees car on the employers parking lot. However, there is no remedy if the employer has such a policy. The law gives no right or priviledge to the employee. Also, there are many exceptions to the law. I don't think a law that went into effect in September of 2011 is what I'd call a "new law". Good score on the test. I prefer it when my students score well. The more perfect scores the better. ;) http://tx.opengovernment.org/sessions/82/bills/sb-321 It became law 9-1-11 so employers cannot prohibit it unless you fall under one of the 'exceptions' included in the bill I realize what the law says, but what remedy is available to you if your employer has a policy in violation of that law? Who would you complain to? What state agency enforces this law, and what is the penalty for a company violating such law? If you carry in spite of an unlawful policy and are fired, can you afford an attorney while unemployed and with no source of income? I will leave this with an exerpt from Walker, Wisdom & Rice, P.C, in a newsletter from last year regarding this issue; Employee Parking Lots:
Many of you may be wondering if a school employee is treated differently by state law than a person visiting the school. As stated earlier, even if a person does not have a CHL, they are allowed to possess a loaded, concealed handgun in their motor vehicle, pursuant to Texas Penal Code §46.02(a)(2). Since parking lots are not considered school premises (TPC §46.035(f)(3)), both a CHL holder and a non-CHL holder can possess a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle on a school parking lot without violating state criminal law. Even though, concealed firearms are allowed to be kept in a motor vehicle located in school parking lots, employees of schools may be prohibited by their employer, the school, as a condition of continued employment, from having a concealed weapon stored in their vehicle. This issue along with many others has arisen in the wake of SB 321, the employer parking lot law. This law was eventually placed into the Texas statutes as Texas Labor Code §§52.061-52.064. As we wrote in our newsletters during the Texas legislative session, this law is far from the fix all for gun owners with regard to employer parking lots that it was touted to be. The stated purpose of the law was to legally protect all Texas firearms owners, both CHL holders and non-CHL holders, from their employers' prohibitions against lawfully keeping firearms in their locked motor vehicles. With regard to this stated goal, the law falls short. Many of our clients have contacted us concerning policies which their employers have circulated after SB 321 was passed. Most of these policies have been promulgated by large interstate and multi-national corporations. They have included examples of employee policies which state that the new law only applies to CHL holders and that non-CHL holders continue to be prohibited from keeping firearms in their automobiles. Some employers are requiring that all employees who intend on keeping firearms in their vehicle must register themselves, their vehicle, and their firearm with human resources. Some employers have decreed that an employee who intends on carrying a firearm in their motor vehicle may only carry one firearm. Many employers have also made it part of their policies that their employees must agree in advance to random searches of their vehicles by company security. These requirements place a great burden on employees who wish to exercise their Constitutional rights and their God given right to self-defense. Unfortunately, the Texas Legislature did not write a bill which was or is clear, straightforward or enforceable. In addition, the Texas Employer Parking Lot law is unclear in that it contains contradictory language which allows it to be logically interpreted as applying only to CHL holders, instead of to all lawful gun owners. Many employers have adopted this interpretation. In addition, the law was written to except out many employers, such as schools, chemical manufacturing facilities and oil and gas refineries, and companies whose primary business is the manufacture, use, storage or transportation of hazardous, combustible or explosive materials. The law also excludes employees who drive motor vehicles owned or leased by the employer. Many employers have written rules to exploit these exceptions and have attempted to apply them to parking lots and circumstances for which it was not intended. Further, as we stated in our previous newsletters, the Texas law does not provide for any enforcement provisions or penalties to the employer who violates an employees' rights under this law. This was a glaring omission from the law. Particularly, since Chapter 52 of the Labor Code contains several other miscellaneous restrictions on employer action (including one that says an agricultural employer must give an employee a hoe that has at least a four foot handle), all of which contain some form of civil or criminal penalty for employer violations. However, there is nothing to protect the lawful gun-carrying employee from the unreasonable regulations and restrictions of an overzealous employer. In many ways the law is only symbolic. Several other states have addressed this issue in a far more comprehensive way than Texas. Oklahoma has a very straightforward law which is stated in one clear, understandable sentence. Florida has a lengthy comprehensive law that contains a legislative statement of validation of a person's right to self-defense with a firearm. The Florida law also contains a very strong enforceability mechanism that allows an aggrieved employee or the State Attorney General to seek civil damages, injunctive remedies, administrative remedies and attorney's fees and costs, against an employer who infringes on an employee's right to lawfully keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle. Unfortunately, the best advice we can give our clients if faced with an employer who aggressively seeks to regulate their employees who keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle, is that you may be right, but you still may be fired with no recourse. Unfortunately, this is the current state of the law. We hope that this has cleared up any confusion and we are pleased to offer any advice or assistance to any of our clients as part of their Texas Law Shield membership. Stay Safe, Edwin Walker Attorney at Law / Vice-President Walker, Rice & Wisdom, P.C. Well I know for a fact my employer is already being sued for this exact reason, I have a buddy who is now a tattoo artist's who was also fired and had a gun in the parking lot, but he also had an argument with someone higher up so, the gun is just a bad situation made worse. It's pretty "funny" though that you have a law and need recourse/penalty in order to make it hold weight, sounds like BS to me. Is this 'symbolism' due to Texas being a right-to-work state? As far as employer fear goes,I don't go out looking to get fired..but I also know that you have to make sure you are financially stable and prepared to fight a battle. I am BATTLE-READY as I have been aware that a person should not live paycheck to paycheck since 1997! I hope they lose the lawsuit and the employees who were fired are reinstated and awarded back pay! Who knows what will happen...but they should make sure that an employer cannot fire an employee simply for having a CHL 'handgun' in the vehicle. If I had my way there wouldn't be any restrictions except for a CHL and anyone with a history of violent behavior going back to age 12 would not be allowed to have a CHL... #1 places to get shot in a mass shooting are work/school/public places where there are a lot of people... if 9 out of 10 people are carrying and 1 of those 10 decides to go crazy..you have 9 sane responsible chances to stop the crazy person...laws don't stop crazy... and BTW that first part about the school parking lot and employees is pretty much the part that McGuire got wrong. Here is the other thing though...what sort of civil or criminal penalty is needed to make the employer not be able to fire you...couldn't they say create a penalty of $100,000 and the employer fires you and pays the $100,000 but you still don't get back-pay or your job back? Seems as though I need to become a cop just so I can have the right to carry more often than not ~derp I hope Texas becomes more Gun-friendly as time passes and I am going to call a lawyer and ask some questions |
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Please provide a court or case number over the suit, I would love to read the petition. Or just name the employer. (Even in a PM, I will keep it private) That allows me to search court records and read the lawsuit.
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Yes, I wrote that the law became effective 9-1-11.
Quoted:
The paking lot law (BTW, use of "SB321" is no longer approproiate unless you cite the session and year because a new session is in progress) is weak, at best. It made a change to the labor code and tells employers they cannot have a policy prohibiting employees from keeping lawfully posessed firearms and ammunition in the employees car on the employers parking lot. However, there is no remedy if the employer has such a policy. The law gives no right or priviledge to the employee. Also, there are many exceptions to the law. I don't think a law that went into effect in September of 2011 is what I'd call a "new law". Good score on the test. I prefer it when my students score well. The more perfect scores the better. ;) http://tx.opengovernment.org/sessions/82/bills/sb-321 It became law 9-1-11 so employers cannot prohibit it unless you fall under one of the 'exceptions' included in the bill I realize what the law says, but what remedy is available to you if your employer has a policy in violation of that law? Who would you complain to? What state agency enforces this law, and what is the penalty for a company violating such law? If you carry in spite of an unlawful policy and are fired, can you afford an attorney while unemployed and with no source of income? I will leave this with an exerpt from Walker, Wisdom & Rice, P.C, in a newsletter from last year regarding this issue; Employee Parking Lots:
Many of you may be wondering if a school employee is treated differently by state law than a person visiting the school. As stated earlier, even if a person does not have a CHL, they are allowed to possess a loaded, concealed handgun in their motor vehicle, pursuant to Texas Penal Code §46.02(a)(2). Since parking lots are not considered school premises (TPC §46.035(f)(3)), both a CHL holder and a non-CHL holder can possess a concealed handgun in a motor vehicle on a school parking lot without violating state criminal law. Even though, concealed firearms are allowed to be kept in a motor vehicle located in school parking lots, employees of schools may be prohibited by their employer, the school, as a condition of continued employment, from having a concealed weapon stored in their vehicle. This issue along with many others has arisen in the wake of SB 321, the employer parking lot law. This law was eventually placed into the Texas statutes as Texas Labor Code §§52.061-52.064. As we wrote in our newsletters during the Texas legislative session, this law is far from the fix all for gun owners with regard to employer parking lots that it was touted to be. The stated purpose of the law was to legally protect all Texas firearms owners, both CHL holders and non-CHL holders, from their employers' prohibitions against lawfully keeping firearms in their locked motor vehicles. With regard to this stated goal, the law falls short. Many of our clients have contacted us concerning policies which their employers have circulated after SB 321 was passed. Most of these policies have been promulgated by large interstate and multi-national corporations. They have included examples of employee policies which state that the new law only applies to CHL holders and that non-CHL holders continue to be prohibited from keeping firearms in their automobiles. Some employers are requiring that all employees who intend on keeping firearms in their vehicle must register themselves, their vehicle, and their firearm with human resources. Some employers have decreed that an employee who intends on carrying a firearm in their motor vehicle may only carry one firearm. Many employers have also made it part of their policies that their employees must agree in advance to random searches of their vehicles by company security. These requirements place a great burden on employees who wish to exercise their Constitutional rights and their God given right to self-defense. Unfortunately, the Texas Legislature did not write a bill which was or is clear, straightforward or enforceable. In addition, the Texas Employer Parking Lot law is unclear in that it contains contradictory language which allows it to be logically interpreted as applying only to CHL holders, instead of to all lawful gun owners. Many employers have adopted this interpretation. In addition, the law was written to except out many employers, such as schools, chemical manufacturing facilities and oil and gas refineries, and companies whose primary business is the manufacture, use, storage or transportation of hazardous, combustible or explosive materials. The law also excludes employees who drive motor vehicles owned or leased by the employer. Many employers have written rules to exploit these exceptions and have attempted to apply them to parking lots and circumstances for which it was not intended. Further, as we stated in our previous newsletters, the Texas law does not provide for any enforcement provisions or penalties to the employer who violates an employees' rights under this law. This was a glaring omission from the law. Particularly, since Chapter 52 of the Labor Code contains several other miscellaneous restrictions on employer action (including one that says an agricultural employer must give an employee a hoe that has at least a four foot handle), all of which contain some form of civil or criminal penalty for employer violations. However, there is nothing to protect the lawful gun-carrying employee from the unreasonable regulations and restrictions of an overzealous employer. In many ways the law is only symbolic. Several other states have addressed this issue in a far more comprehensive way than Texas. Oklahoma has a very straightforward law which is stated in one clear, understandable sentence. Florida has a lengthy comprehensive law that contains a legislative statement of validation of a person's right to self-defense with a firearm. The Florida law also contains a very strong enforceability mechanism that allows an aggrieved employee or the State Attorney General to seek civil damages, injunctive remedies, administrative remedies and attorney's fees and costs, against an employer who infringes on an employee's right to lawfully keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle. Unfortunately, the best advice we can give our clients if faced with an employer who aggressively seeks to regulate their employees who keep a firearm in their locked motor vehicle, is that you may be right, but you still may be fired with no recourse. Unfortunately, this is the current state of the law. We hope that this has cleared up any confusion and we are pleased to offer any advice or assistance to any of our clients as part of their Texas Law Shield membership. Stay Safe, Edwin Walker Attorney at Law / Vice-President Walker, Rice & Wisdom, P.C. Well I know for a fact my employer is already being sued for this exact reason, I have a buddy who is now a tattoo artist's who was also fired and had a gun in the parking lot, but he also had an argument with someone higher up so, the gun is just a bad situation made worse. It's pretty "funny" though that you have a law and need recourse/penalty in order to make it hold weight, sounds like BS to me. Is this 'symbolism' due to Texas being a right-to-work state? Second, right to work has nothihg to do with this. A "right to work" state is one in which employees cannot be forced to join a union. |
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Quoted:Please provide a court or case number over the suit, I would love to read the petition. Or just name the employer. (Even in a PM, I will keep it private) That allows me to search court records and read the lawsuit.
Second, right to work has nothihg to do with this. A "right to work" state is one in which employees cannot be forced to join a union. I'll see if I can get that, I was told by someone else I work with so it's second-hand info don't know if he will give that info to me. If they give me that info I'll give you employer info as well. I did find where they make recourse for subpoena. (how they would do so for SB321) Tex. Lab. Code §52.051. That section expressly states that an employee discharged for complying with a subpoena is entitled to return to the same employment, damages up to six months' compensation, and attorney's fees I will check it out the friend that now does tattoo's on the side doesn't seem to care, he makes more money doing tattoo's anyways ;) and I don't know why SB 321 would get through an entire year without this being fixed? Perhaps a PETITION is needed? and should be passed on to ALL CHL instructors and GUN shops in order to get this changed! Pretty sure though you can and will always be able to SUE |