Posted: 11/1/2010 9:34:15 AM EDT
| I was told by a neighbor that game camera evidence of tresspassers or thieves on your property is inadmissable unless the landowner posts a sign stating that the property is under camera surveillance. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he was given this info by one our sherriff's deputies when he turned in a picture of a strange truck on his property that clearly showed the license plate. Is there a law stating that you must have signs indicating the property is under surveillance? |
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I was told by a neighbor that game camera evidence of tresspassers or thieves on your property is inadmissable unless the landowner posts a sign stating that the property is under camera surveillance. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he was given this info by one our sherriff's deputies when he turned in a picture of a strange truck on his property that clearly showed the license plate. Is there a law stating that you must have signs indicating the property is under surveillance? I think the deputy is full of fertilizer, but IANAL. There are places all over that have cameras and no signs. Places that do have signs I believe do it to increase the deterrent effect, not because there is a legal requirement for notice. If the Sheriff's office won't do their job y'all might want to track that truck down on your own. Have you been having troubles with thieves, vandals, meth cooks or poachers? If you suspect the latter then you may want to try contacting the game warden for your area, they may be more interested in taking action. If there is evidence of drug activity then maybe go to the feds... |
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I was told by a neighbor that game camera evidence of tresspassers or thieves on your property is inadmissable unless the landowner posts a sign stating that the property is under camera surveillance. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he was given this info by one our sherriff's deputies when he turned in a picture of a strange truck on his property that clearly showed the license plate. Is there a law stating that you must have signs indicating the property is under surveillance? If I rob a bank, are the videotapes allowed in the courtroom even if the bank didn't have one of those signs???? That should answer your question. |
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From the way it sounded to me it was claimed that any evidence from the camera, even if a crime was committed, would be inadmissable. As far as tresspassing it seems that cutting a lock or chain or cutting a fence and gaining entrance to a property belonging to someone else would constitute tresspassing whether or not signage was visible. That a picture of the perp in the act would be inadmissable without signage seems ludicrous.
We have been told various things by the local deputies that don't make much sense. It all seems to culminate in whatever would generate the least work for them to follow up with. In one instance of vandalism (cutting donuts in a pasture) around our renters trailer we were told that we could not file charges even if the perp were caught because the renter would have to file the charges even though the property is ours. To answer the first reply, we have had a rash of rural break-ins in several central Texas counties so many folks have started putting up cameras in strategic locations. The neighbor that I mentioned in the original post has been broken into twice. The first time it took two days for the sherriff's office to respond. The second time it took a follow up call to get a deputy onsite and that was several hours later. |
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I live out in the country, and if I had a pic of someone coming on my property, like this person has. The last phone call I would make would be to the Sheriff. Problems like this are best handled personally. So tell me what you would plan on doing? Confront them with a bat, gun, or just beat the crap out of them? What would be the end result? |
| Sounds like some sheriff's don't want to do their jobs, especially with the BS about the renter's are the ones who have to call in for damage done by a 3rd party on property you own. As for the signs, I've never heard of any legal requirement regarding posting signs for video surveillance on private property. I do work for retail security/loss prevention and the majority of stores don't have any signs up notifying of CCTV systems in use. I know a few do post signs, but I think that tends to be done as a deterrant. I do believe you have to have a sign clearly posted if there is audio recording being done though. |
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All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land.
Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. If you have video cameras such as spy cameras with no signs in your house which is also private property and you catch a burglar inside or trying to make entry it is also admissable in court. |
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All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. If you have video cameras such as spy cameras with no signs in your house which is also private property and you catch a burglar inside or trying to make entry it is also admissable in court. I miss the times I was growing up in the 70's. We leased land close to Cedar Park and had signs post 'No Tresspassers, Tresspassers will be shot without warning per state code...(I can't remeber the penal code number but the sign was legal per state law)'. The signs had to be posted every 50 feet to be valid. It wa funny when we caught people and the sheriff would walk them over to one of the signs and have them read it then explain what could have happened. Look up about posting then if the sheriff will not do anything go to the local DA or the State's attorney general to complain. |
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Thanks everyone for the replies.
I think by now I can safely presume that: 1. Our sherrif's dept is useless. 2. Signage isn't required for cameras or tresspassing. and 3. Citizens of my county will have to appeal to a higher authority than local if they want any justice whatsoever. |
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I think by now I can safely presume that: 3. Citizens of my county will have to appeal to a higher authority than local if they want any justice whatsoever. Look up the law specifically in the penal code, get officers name that came out by calling the records dept of the SO. Call the main office, ask to speak to someone in internal affairs. |
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I think by now I can safely presume that: 1. Our sherrif's dept is useless. 2. Signage isn't required for cameras or tresspassing. and 3. Citizens of my county will have to appeal to a higher authority than local if they want any justice whatsoever. 4. Vote the Sheriff out if he won't make his Deputies do their job |
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All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. If you have video cameras such as spy cameras with no signs in your house which is also private property and you catch a burglar inside or trying to make entry it is also admissable in court. I miss the times I was growing up in the 70's. We leased land close to Cedar Park and had signs post 'No Tresspassers, Tresspassers will be shot without warning per state code...(I can't remeber the penal code number but the sign was legal per state law)'. The signs had to be posted every 50 feet to be valid. It wa funny when we caught people and the sheriff would walk them over to one of the signs and have them read it then explain what could have happened. Look up about posting then if the sheriff will not do anything go to the local DA or the State's attorney general to complain. No shit? You mean Texas has dumbed down so much you now have to put up signs? I guess they figure so many people from California and other short bus states have come here they need written instructions. I'm for letting them find out what crossing a barbed wire fence earns them the hard way. |
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Painting the top of fence post purple also means Private Property. Weird but true but why purple? Purple paint on a fence post ain't likely to be there by accident or coincidence is it? One of the few pieces of info I got out of the state's hunters education class that I didn't already know was that I believe purple paint/tape/markings are supposed to signify no hunting/tresspassing. But that is only good if everyone else knows what that color and markings mean and I doubt many do. I doubt the OP's local deputies would even know what it meant. |
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All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. If you have video cameras such as spy cameras with no signs in your house which is also private property and you catch a burglar inside or trying to make entry it is also admissable in court. I miss the times I was growing up in the 70's. We leased land close to Cedar Park and had signs post 'No Tresspassers, Tresspassers will be shot without warning per state code...(I can't remeber the penal code number but the sign was legal per state law)'. The signs had to be posted every 50 feet to be valid. It wa funny when we caught people and the sheriff would walk them over to one of the signs and have them read it then explain what could have happened. Look up about posting then if the sheriff will not do anything go to the local DA or the State's attorney general to complain. No shit? You mean Texas has dumbed down so much you now have to put up signs? I guess they figure so many people from California and other short bus states have come here they need written instructions. I'm for letting them find out what crossing a barbed wire fence earns them the hard way. Back then when you posted the sign it was a defence from prosecution if you ventilated a tresspasser. Think of it as going green by cutting down on paper work. |
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All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. If you have video cameras such as spy cameras with no signs in your house which is also private property and you catch a burglar inside or trying to make entry it is also admissable in court. I miss the times I was growing up in the 70's. We leased land close to Cedar Park and had signs post 'No Tresspassers, Tresspassers will be shot without warning per state code...(I can't remeber the penal code number but the sign was legal per state law)'. The signs had to be posted every 50 feet to be valid. It wa funny when we caught people and the sheriff would walk them over to one of the signs and have them read it then explain what could have happened. Look up about posting then if the sheriff will not do anything go to the local DA or the State's attorney general to complain. No shit? You mean Texas has dumbed down so much you now have to put up signs? I guess they figure so many people from California and other short bus states have come here they need written instructions. I'm for letting them find out what crossing a barbed wire fence earns them the hard way. you do not need signs if it is fenced Notice" means: (A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner; (B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock; (C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden; (D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are: (i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width; (ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and (iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than: (a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or (b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land |
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Why Purple Paint to mark a "No Trespass area in Texas?
Purple Paint on fence posts is MUCH cheaper than the LARGE number of "No Trespassing" that would otherwise be needed to mark a ranch or farm. Also as previously posted, purple paint is highly unlikely to be there on the perimeter for any "accidental" reason. |
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Painting the top of fence post purple also means Private Property. Weird but true but why purple? Purple paint on a fence post ain't likely to be there by accident or coincidence is it? Hell no...but again, why purple? Why not red, blue, yellow, or white. I've seen purple on fence posts and it doesn't pop like other colors. On old cedar posts it sometimes looks like part of the natural color when it's wet. Plus, it's looks gay like some hippy head shop in Austin. |
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I think by now I can safely presume that: 1. Our sherrif's dept is useless. 2. Signage isn't required for cameras or tresspassing. and 3. Citizens of my county will have to appeal to a higher authority than local if they want any justice whatsoever. 4. Vote the Sheriff out if he won't make his Deputies do their job That's part of the problem. If I remember correctly, in my lifetime, every sheriff we've had has been there until he died or retired. After that someone in the local leo clique or the chief deputy would inherit the office. The only election opponent there has been was from outside the county and few seemed to want a non local for sherriff. I suppose, in spite of all the criticism our sherrif's dept. gets, for the voters it was a case of "the devil you know". |
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I think by now I can safely presume that: 1. Our sherrif's dept is useless. 2. Signage isn't required for cameras or tresspassing. and 3. Citizens of my county will have to appeal to a higher authority than local if they want any justice whatsoever. 4. Vote the Sheriff out if he won't make his Deputies do their job That's part of the problem. If I remember correctly, in my lifetime, every sheriff we've had has been there until he died or retired. After that someone in the local leo clique or the chief deputy would inherit the office. The only election opponent there has been was from outside the county and few seemed to want a non local for sherriff. I suppose, in spite of all the criticism our sherrif's dept. gets, for the voters it was a case of "the devil you know". Sounds like Lee,Co |
| In the National Forests of East Texas, federal lands are usually marked with red X blazes on trees. Private lands that run along the federal land will often show purple blazes. Green is a better color but does not stand out as well as the purple. Since you can walk for hours without coming across a fence, the blazes can become confusing when you see one. Unless a tree is properly blazed with a deeply scored X in the bark that is scarred and healed, I ignore it. Many blazes are put in illegally in the forest by hunters trying to keep other hunters away from their favorite spots. |
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I was told by a neighbor that game camera evidence of tresspassers or thieves on your property is inadmissable unless the landowner posts a sign stating that the property is under camera surveillance. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he was given this info by one our sherriff's deputies when he turned in a picture of a strange truck on his property that clearly showed the license plate. Is there a law stating that you must have signs indicating the property is under surveillance? No signs warning of video surviellance are required, however a picture of a vehicle's license plate is not enough to file charges against anyone. You cannot charge an inanimate object with a crime. Only people can be charged with crimes and you cannot identify the driver or anyone else by a license plate number. As far as tresspassing it seems that cutting a lock or chain or cutting a fence and gaining entrance to a property belonging to someone else would constitute tresspassing whether or not signage was visible.
Texas Penal Code 30.05, Trespassing, reads that "fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock" constitutes notice. Cutting a fence or lock would be criminal mischief for the damage to the property in addition to criminal trespass. Quoted:
All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. Sorry, this is just plain wrong. In order to have criminal trespass the person must have "had notice that the entry was forbidden" or "received notice to depart but failed to do so." There is no presumption under the trespassing staute. Unless there is "the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry" there had better be signs, a fence or oral or written communication before someone gets arrested or the person making the arrest is going to find themselves in a bunch of trouble for making a false arrest with no probable cause. Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person: (1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or (2) received notice to depart but failed to do so. (b) For purposes of this section: (1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body. (2) "Notice" means: (A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner; (B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock; (C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden; (D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are: (i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width; (ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and (iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than: (a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or (b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or (E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry. The entire statute can be found at Section 30.05. Criminal Trespass. Hell no...but again, why purple? Why not red, blue, yellow, or white. I've seen purple on fence posts and it doesn't pop like other colors. On old cedar posts it sometimes looks like part of the natural color when it's wet. Plus, it's looks gay like some hippy head shop in Austin. I don't know the origin of using purple, but several states use that color. I suspect Texas was trying to keep things simple by using the universal color. |
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I was told by a neighbor that game camera evidence of tresspassers or thieves on your property is inadmissable unless the landowner posts a sign stating that the property is under camera surveillance. He claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that he was given this info by one our sherriff's deputies when he turned in a picture of a strange truck on his property that clearly showed the license plate. Is there a law stating that you must have signs indicating the property is under surveillance? No signs warning of video surviellance are required, however a picture of a vehicle's license plate is not enough to file charges against anyone. You cannot charge an inanimate object with a crime. Only people can be charged with crimes and you cannot identify the driver or anyone else by a license plate number. As far as tresspassing it seems that cutting a lock or chain or cutting a fence and gaining entrance to a property belonging to someone else would constitute tresspassing whether or not signage was visible.
Texas Penal Code 30.05, Trespassing, reads that "fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock" constitutes notice. Cutting a fence or lock would be criminal mischief for the damage to the property in addition to criminal trespass. Quoted:
All property in Texas is to be assumed to be Private Property unless there are signs saying Public Property or Land. Get caught tresspassing and try and use the 'we didn't see any posted signs' excuse and the Game Warden or Sherriff will be happy to explain all that to you on the ride to jail. Sorry, this is just plain wrong. In order to have criminal trespass the person must have "had notice that the entry was forbidden" or "received notice to depart but failed to do so." There is no presumption under the trespassing staute. Unless there is "the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry" there had better be signs, a fence or oral or written communication before someone gets arrested or the person making the arrest is going to find themselves in a bunch of trouble for making a false arrest with no probable cause. Sec. 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person: (1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or (2) received notice to depart but failed to do so. (b) For purposes of this section: (1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body. (2) "Notice" means: (A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner; (B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock; (C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden; (D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are: (i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width; (ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and (iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than: (a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or (b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or (E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry. The entire statute can be found at Section 30.05. Criminal Trespass. Hell no...but again, why purple? Why not red, blue, yellow, or white. I've seen purple on fence posts and it doesn't pop like other colors. On old cedar posts it sometimes looks like part of the natural color when it's wet. Plus, it's looks gay like some hippy head shop in Austin. I don't know the origin of using purple, but several states use that color. I suspect Texas was trying to keep things simple by using the universal color. Four of five years ago I knew a poacher who stumbled out onto a road and right into the lap of parked Sherriff' Deputy after deer hunting on an unmarked property and he got hauled to jail and paid a hefty fine. |