Posted: 12/20/2009 9:37:29 AM EDT
| What are a person's obligations (legal and other) when doing a private fact to face sale of a firearm, say at a gunshow linking up with someone over the internet for a local meet? |
|
Quoted:
What are a person's obligations (legal and other) when doing a private fact to face sale of a firearm, say at a gunshow linking up with someone over the internet for a local meet? legally nothing as long as a reasonable person believes the buyer can legally own a firearm. some people want to visually check ids to make sure they are over 18, some want to exchange info, some want a bill of sale. but legally it's just property, like selling a tool. |
|
Quoted:
What are a person's obligations (legal and other) when doing a private fact to face sale of a firearm, say at a gunshow linking up with someone over the internet for a local meet? Make sure they are a Texas resident and that you do not have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. Asking to see that they have a Texas drivers license takes care of the first part. (no need to write down the info on the DL) http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html Unlicensed Persons Questions Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30] Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30] Quoted:
...but legally it's just property, like selling a tool. When was the last time someone went to jail or was fined for selling a hammer to a sixteen year old? It is most definitely NOT like selling a tool. |
|
Find a nice quiet comer of the gun show to look over the gun and quibble over the price then Pass the gun for the cash, shake the mans hand and walk away.
Having said this i don't sell to: kids. Non English speakers gang banger want to bees you need to be carefull and follow the rules but don't feel like you have to be a want to be FFL. If you are unsure find an FFLs at the show to do the transfer. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies... I can say unequivocally I wouldn't sell to someone overtly questionable (no speaka da English/gansta/looks like a meth head), just wondering what the "rules" were... Cool! You have not really been to a show untill you have bought and sold guns. How can you really know what you like to shoot untll you buy and live with a gun for a while. Say you don't like it or want something else there is no need for you to take a bath on it. Say you buy a Glock 19. Retail is $550.00 plus tax. You buy one from a private seller for $450.00 cash. Shoot and pack it for 6 months and realize you want a .40 cal. Just take it back to A show and swap, sell it outright or trade it in on one. A private sale will swap you even. A FFL will only give you maybe $350.00 so you are out $200 plus tax. |
|
Quoted:
What are a person's obligations (legal and other) when doing a private fact to face sale of a firearm, say at a gunshow linking up with someone over the internet for a local meet? If they wont show a Texas ID, no sale in my opinion. 18+ for any non NFA firearm. |
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies... I can say unequivocally I wouldn't sell to someone overtly questionable (no speaka da English/gansta/looks like a meth head), just wondering what the "rules" were... The rules are, (and I am goin to put this as my father once told me.) "Don't be a fucking idiot, use your common sense and your ass is covered" It's worked so far for me and It really is just like selling a tool. In that you don't sell a machete to a guy who is telling you about how much he hates his wife.... |
|
OK, I'll chime in, a friend of mine bought a gun from a dealer we both know well. A couple months later, he decides he does not wantn it and sells it to some yoyo at a gun show, never asked for any ID. Another few months go by and the original dealer gets a trace call, the gun was used in a crime in Houston and recovered, soooooo, the dealer had to give his friends info, the guy he sold the gun to.
I will NOT sell to anyone without seeing their DL and recording the number, no DL, no sale! The few bucks just ain't worth it! |
|
Quoted: OK, I'll chime in, a friend of mine bought a gun from a dealer we both know well. A couple months later, he decides he does not wantn it and sells it to some yoyo at a gun show, never asked for any ID. Another few months go by and the original dealer gets a trace call, the gun was used in a crime in Houston and recovered, soooooo, the dealer had to give his friends info, the guy he sold the gun to. I will NOT sell to anyone without seeing their DL and recording the number, no DL, no sale! The few bucks just ain't worth it! Why not? Your friend is not liable. Unless there is more to the story? |
|
Quoted:
So?
OK, I'll chime in, a friend of mine bought a gun from a dealer we both know well. A couple months later, he decides he does not wantn it and sells it to some yoyo at a gun show, never asked for any ID. Another few months go by and the original dealer gets a trace call, the gun was used in a crime in Houston and recovered, soooooo, the dealer had to give his friends info, the guy he sold the gun to. |
|
Quoted:
Yes, that is true, he is NOT liable, BUT who wants to deal with the hassle of the law knocking on your door, etc. If he was not 56 and a generally good guy, could have been a LOT of questions. You think having a piece of paper would have kept them from knocking on his door? Good grief man, the police STILL would have gone to your friends house. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, that is true, he is NOT liable, BUT who wants to deal with the hassle of the law knocking on your door, etc. If he was not 56 and a generally good guy, could have been a LOT of questions. How did the police know he was a generally good guy ?? They didn't. There was nothing linking him to the crime. |
|
Quoted:
18+ for any firearm NFA included, but I don't sell any NFA stuff so its a moot point for me check(and record if its a stranger) for a TX DL/CHL me get money, they get gun, we shake hands, bid farewell and off we go in our separate directions. NFA is 21+ but you know that I'm guessing. |
| Like I mentioned, nothing linking him to the crime, 56 years old, federal employee, owns NFA, etc. BUT, if he was younger, maybe not "as clean", more questions than I want to answer. By getting a DL, I am protecting myself, let the other guy answer the questions. |
|
Quoted:
so if someone from out of state is in Texas and wants to buy a gun from me I cant legally sell it to him ? correct. Whats worse is if your brother from Oklahoma swings down for lunch and you want to give him your dad's old shotgun to take home... you've just committed a federal felony 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
so if someone from out of state is in Texas and wants to buy a gun from me I cant legally sell it to him ? correct. Whats worse is if your brother from Oklahoma swings down for lunch and you want to give him your dad's old shotgun to take home... you've just committed a federal felony thanks for the info....but that really sucks 
|
|
Quoted: Yes, that is true, he is NOT liable, BUT who wants to deal with the hassle of the law knocking on your door, etc. If he was not 56 and a generally good guy, could have been a LOT of questions. Dude, if you do not want to deal with the hassle of the law knocking on your door, then you are making the case NOT to check/record ID. Of course, the nunber of traces is microscopically small to be irrelevant IMO. The paper trail argument to CYA is one of the biggest myths in the gun world. The Brady Bunch is proud to keep it going, as it is the first step to National Gun Registration. In Texas their is absolutely NO NEED to ever record who you sell to.
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: 18+ for any firearm NFA included, but I don't sell any NFA stuff so its a moot point for me check(and record if its a stranger) for a TX DL/CHL me get money, they get gun, we shake hands, bid farewell and off we go in our separate directions. NFA is 21+ but you know that I'm guessing. |
I wont sell to sketchy looking people and i will look at the dl. Other than that not much you can do. My dad bought a gun from a cop at a gunshow the cop said all these gang bangers kept trying to buy it off him. He told my dad (to the gang bangers) no thats ok i dont want to find my gun on your dead body in a week  ...
|
