Posted: 4/4/2009 8:01:39 PM EDT
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I'm buying a bike and have a few questions -
1. What should I expect to haggle down from MSRP? 2. I assume it will be way overpriced to buy a helmet and jacket from the dealer. What website/catalog is the one stop shop for bike accs? 3. What brand helmet/jacket should I be looking at? |
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I'm buying a bike and have a few questions - 1. What should I expect to haggle down from MSRP? 2. I assume it will be way overpriced to buy a helmet and jacket from the dealer. What website/catalog is the one stop shop for bike accs? 3. What brand helmet/jacket should I be looking at? 1. depends on make/model but not much unless last year model 2. several places online and many brick and mortar shops at least here in dfw. 3. that all depends on your price range and needs. good full face helmets will start off around 150 and go 600+ some say some brands are better than others for safety but I believe once you are in a quality helmet then fit is the most important thing. after that point more money will just mean lighter and more comfortable. Also remember that a good jacket won't make you feel any better when there is no skin left on your legs ;) don't ask how I know 
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I had great luck with leathers at New Enough. It's *NEW* equipment but it may be 2-3 years old.
I'd recommend against a SNELL helmet and go for one that's just DOT approved. I've had great luck with my HJC. It was cheap, DOT approved, and visors are pretty cheap. Also, sounds like you might be new to riding, I'd definitely look at taking the MSF class. It saved my life at least 3 or 4 times in the first month or so of riding. Last bit of my $0.02, keep in mind that sweat wipes off but road rash doesn't. Wear your gear! |
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IMHO et a cheap beater bike first like a ninja 500 or sv650. these are good reliable bikes with power, yet not so much that you get stupid too quickly on them. For some reason I am assuming that were gonna get a sportsbike. If you are looking at a cruiser then nm. You can buy used also and save money. Look at cycletrader and local classifieds.
As for gear, it really depends on what your riding style is. I have had good luck on ebay, saving about 40% usually on new or slightly used gear. You can also go to a local Cycle Gear shop to find what size you are for helmets and jackets. They have a really good seleciton. I also share the same sentiment concerning the msf/rider safety course. Those are a great primer if you are new to riding and they give you insurance discounts. stay safe and keep the shiny side up. |
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1. Don't expect to haggle much, as summer comes on bike prices solidify, if you won't pay sticker the next sucker might...
2.Most dealers I've dealt with will hook you up on gear to go with your brand new bike, if you want a cheaper deal look online, check out cyclegear or google map search for "motorcycle" and you'll find the local shops you might want to support. 3. brand isn't as important as comfort and quality. I'm a huge firstgear fan, but i've owned 5 different makes of jacket from leather and textile to the mix. Just remember cheap bike gear is like cheap rifle gear, you get what you pay for. Sure it may meet DOT standards, but it doesn't necessarily breath or make riding enjoyable. Personally with the weather in TX i'd recommend textile/mesh jacket with decent shoulder/elbow/spine support, if you're set on leather enjoy the heat. As for a suitable lid, find a shop that sells Arai/shoei/KBC/Icon etc... the more the merrier. Try them on, notice weight and how it feels against your jaw... You want snug but not tight. I have a set of questions for you, as someone who has helped many a friend into the bike world I ask everyone these. 1. Have you ridden before? How long? Where (dirt/street/etc..)? 2. What kind of riding are you going to do? (long distance/commuting/weekend warrior/maybe you just want a pretty to sit on at sonic on thursdays) 3. How much money do you want to invest? because if you don't have a solid number the dealer will get you out of there for more than you thought. |
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For gear, you can go to Moto Liberty at I35E and Royal lane.
If you are looking at sport bikes. MSRP is what you will pay in the metroplex unless you are looking at a Kawasaki. You can go to Kawasaki City in Irving. The owner there stacks them deep and sells them cheap. He prints a list online of his prices. No haggeling. You get a straight up OTD price that includes everything. Price list is Here. For anything else, shop in Dallas and then call the dealerships in Paris Tx. For about a 2 hour drive you will save 1-2K most of the time. Good luck and start with a small bike and the MSF course. David |
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I've been riding for 20+ years. Had 3 spills in my riding time. First one was when I first started riding. If your a beginner I recommend buying a 1000-1500 buck starter bike from craigslist first. Once you are comfortable and learn on that bike move up to a new one. As far as helmets go. I like my AGV brand. Its snell and DOT approved. Got it on a deal brand ne won ebay for 100. Im currently looking to buy a Sharl brand helmet. I buy pretty much all my gear here. www.motorcyclesuperstore.com They have awesome deals on last years stuff |
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I have a set of questions for you, as someone who has helped many a friend into the bike world I ask everyone these. 1. Have you ridden before? How long? Where (dirt/street/etc..)? 2. What kind of riding are you going to do? (long distance/commuting/weekend warrior/maybe you just want a pretty to sit on at sonic on thursdays) 3. How much money do you want to invest? because if you don't have a solid number the dealer will get you out of there for more than you thought. 1 Yes, one yr, street 2 commuting, weekend 3 $7,000 I *think* I have it narrowed down to a Yamaha FZ6r 600 and Suzuki GSX 650. I like the looks of the Yamaha a bit better but not sure if 600 will be enough. I'm 280lbs and don't want to outgrow it. |
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Forgot to add. Buy a good helmet. Don't listen to the previous posts that say a $100 helmet is good enough. You don't just get better ventilation and lighter weight with a better helmet, although those are great reasons to get one anyways. Get a Shoei or an Arai helmet. With a higher quality helmet, you do actually get better protection than with a budget helmet. Just because its DOT or SNELL rated means it meets the minimum. The better helmets really exceed them. They have better crush zones, better padding and most of the time a more comfortable and cooler fit which you will need in Texas. I have seen people go down in both cheap and expensive helmets, and there is a difference. That doesn't mean you are guaranteed to be 100% a ok in a good one, but you will have a better chance.
Stay away from the Icon line (clothing, helmets and gloves) also. A lot of places sell a lot of it because the squids and stunters want to look cool, but they really skimp on the protection and their stitching doesn't seem to hold up very well in an accident. Also. Get a used bike first. YOU WILL GO DOWN. There are 2 kinds of riders. Those who have been down and those who will go down. Its the nature of the beast. I have been down twice. 1st time was around 1700 miles after riding for about 2 months. It was on my first long ride. I didn't realize the fatigue from riding 400 miles. I hit a tiny pebble while slowing down and boom, down I went. Broke a mirror, scratched the fairings and bar end. I was wearing full gear. I got up and rode it another 75 miles home. 2nd time I went down we were riding around the Big Bend area. The jackass in front of me slams on the brakes in the middle of a strait away. I started slowing, crested a little rise, and on the other side there was sand all over the road. The front locked up so fast that I was sliding before I could process what happened. My girlfriend at the time was on the back. We both had on full gear and good helmets. After we slid to a stop we laid there and let the dust settle. My riding buddies stopped and we picked the bike up and I calmed down. Then I rode another 400 miles for our route for that day, albeit without a foot peg and mirror. Go to the MSF class the knowledge it teaches is well worth it. |
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I *think* I have it narrowed down to a Yamaha FZ6r 600 and Suzuki GSX 650. I like the looks of the Yamaha a bit better but not sure if 600 will be enough. I'm 280lbs and don't want to outgrow it. My wife rides a Ninja 650R. She really likes it. I have ridden it. Its quite comfy to ride and handles really well. You are not really hunkered over like a true sport bike, so it was really suprising how nimble it really is. I didn't like my test ride on the FZ6 when it first came out. I am not familiar with a GSX 650, but I think its just a stroked and bored GS 500. They made it 650 to compete with the ninja 650(who made that to compete with the SV650). I think the extra torque of the SV will suit your weight better and its a really fun bike. If you haven't taken a look at it, you should. |
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Thanks for all the help guys, good stuff and I really appreciate it. Will I lose alot not getting the 650 and wish I had later? As apposed to getting what? a Ninja 250? The 650's are not that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Its like asking if you will regret not getting a Honda Civic. |
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600 instead of the 650 If you get a 600, like a ZX6R or a GSX-R 600, it will be totally diffrent than the SV650, or anything like that. The 600's are a tuned race bike. The 650's are parallel or V-twins. The twins will have more low end torque, but not anything on the top end. What are you going for exactly? They will be totally different bikes. A 600 will get you in trouble. Most people crash them when they snap. Its hard to type out what happens when you ride a 600, but I will try. A 600 is almost 2 stroke like in its power band. It has no balls down low, and then it all comes on up high. Mose amateurs crash because of this. They ride them around at first putting them around. Then they start to get ballzy with them. When you roll on them smoothly from the low end they have no power. Then you roll a little more, expecting a little more and you get a little more. Then you roll a little more, expecting a little more, but what you get is a split second change as it gets to its power. You go from an awesome 35 horsepower to the full fury of 100 horse power, when you are only expecting 45. Everyone says it won't happen to them, but it does. There you are, staring at the sky all of a sudden going WTF man? The twin 650's are different. They have a lot more predictable throttle curve. The power is almost linear, instead of exponential. On my SV1000(bigger SV650) the power is almost always the same. It doesn't matter if I am at 3K or 6K, if I twist the grip it goes X amount, it goes X amount. If you are new to riding, get a 650. You will probably ride longer .I know alot of people who have bought that new 600, it scares the shit out of them, and then it sits in the garage because they are scared of it. Get a starter bike. You say you have ridden for a year, but what have you been riding for that year? How many miles? and have you taken the MSF course yet? |
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600 instead of the 650 You say you have ridden for a year, but what have you been riding for that year? How many miles? and have you taken the MSF course yet? I rode for a year about 16yrs ago on a '79 Honda CB750K, put around 8K on it IIRC. No MSF course, have not checked into it yet. Anybody know the cost/hours? What speeds are you talkiing about with the 600 getting away from you? Do you mean it pops a wheelie or the rear tire slides out from under you? Not sure I'm following you |
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I have a set of questions for you, as someone who has helped many a friend into the bike world I ask everyone these. 1. Have you ridden before? How long? Where (dirt/street/etc..)? 2. What kind of riding are you going to do? (long distance/commuting/weekend warrior/maybe you just want a pretty to sit on at sonic on thursdays) 3. How much money do you want to invest? because if you don't have a solid number the dealer will get you out of there for more than you thought. 1 Yes, one yr, street 2 commuting, weekend 3 $7,000 I *think* I have it narrowed down to a Yamaha FZ6r 600 and Suzuki GSX 650. I like the looks of the Yamaha a bit better but not sure if 600 will be enough. I'm 280lbs and don't want to outgrow it. If you have street experience, then get something you'll be comfy on for commute, the sv650 is going to be less a less aggressive riding style (more upright, less knee bend) than a supersport 600. I too am 270+ but at 6'4" my bike choices are usually determined by my desire not to look like a gorilla humping a football. You're not going to like the 650's power when it comes to hwy travel as it will lack the throttle response of the supersports and won't be as capable of getting out of the way when you want to. However it's enough bike to be safe on if you know the limitations. I had the sv1k several years ago and loved the torque, however, my latest bike a zx9 would tear it to pieces on the hwy, with a smaller motor. As a fellow "big guy" i can tell you that after learning to ride in a small town i wouldn't take anything will less than 900ccs with the insane traffic we have here. as for pricing 7k won't get you far at a dealership, but buying used this time of year you might find a deal or two via craigslist or cycle trader... if you're set on new, find the one that feels the best to you and go for it. only other advice is keep the rubber side down and best of luck . |
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You can go to http://msf-usa.org and find a class near you. I think when I did it 5 years ago it was like $175. Its a 2 day thing, 1st day is 1/2 class in the morning, then riding in the afternoon in a closed environment, 2nd day is all riding. When you leave you have a certificate that exempts you from the road portion of getting your license. Taking that class saved my ass so many times the first years I rode.
Like I said, its really hard to explain on the power band of the 600 Supersport bikes. They have no low end torque, All your acceleration is from your torque. On the 600's, you have to keep them wound up to have any real power. When you get a twin(any of the 650's), there is low end torque, so you don't always have to keep it would up. What I am saying about the snapping is that a lot of beginners ride it in the no torque area of the power band. Then when they are feeling a little frisky, and they start hitting the power curve it really messes them up. Here is another example of what happens. Say you are accelerating at 50% throttle input through the RPM band. You are expecting a nice linear acceleration through the RPM band. Well on a motorcycle like a 600, tuned for upper end max power, that doesn't happen. You are going along and the RPM's are rising at a nice clip. Then all of a sudden, BAM, the power band is reached, RPM's zing up and you sling foreward really fast. This is where newbies crash a lot. They are not used to the power variance and you see statements afterward like "It just accelerated all on its own!" I'm not trying to discourage you from one by any means. They are great fun, but they need to be respected. Alot of newbies have the mindset of 'its just a 600'. Those are the people who crash them when they 'accelerate all on its own'. For most people, the constant power of the V twins are a lot easier to learn on because its one less thing to think about. The acceleration is linear, you don't need to worry about what gear you are in, because it will accelerate in any gear at pretty much the same clip, and it won't just take off on you either. I would really recommend a SV 650 or a Ninja 650R . I can't recommend a GSX650 or whatever, just because I have never researched it. I am sure it would be fine also, as its probably just a stroked and bored GS500 which is a great starter bike. David |
| Depends on the make of the bike - if its a Harley, expect to pay MSRP but then you get some addons at a discount in some places. Accessories - check out Dennis Kirk or Cycle World here in Fort Worth. You will pay top dollar for HD. Jackets a dime a dozen as well as helmet....have to decide what type of helmet and gear you plan to wear....rain suit, chaps? Better to shop around a bit.... |
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besides seating position , not too much diff
dont buy new, save your money & buy used, if possible have you sat on both or ridden them? make sure they feel comfy sitting there. b/c if they arent you will hate it for rides longer than to grocery store. you can always get diff bars, seats, etc to custom fit it to you. both would be good starter bikes. if you can set your mind - a 600ish bike will be fine for you. its easy to want more power & speed though you will need to adjust the suspension. most bike suspensions are valved for 150lb riders. helmet / jacket are personal pref. go to cyclegear down 183 from you. best try on a few. make sure there are no pressure points. also, i think they have 30 day policy on the helmets if it doesnt work out....ask them |
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Can anybody else tell me if there is that much difference between 600 and 650? yes there is. it's the difference between a v8 truck and a v6 sports car. The 650 is a 90degree v-twin. It's pure torque. It's going to fight you in corners a bit more as the centrifugal forces of the actual pistons push the bike up in corners. It's riding position is less aggressive. Which translates into loss of road feel in the front end, and a higher center of gravity. Basically in the corners, getting aggressive on the 650 will require you to be a better rider than the inline 4. Vs the I-4 600 super sports, it's not much of a contest in a race. The i-4's are simply lighter (in most cases) and instead of pure torque and a smooth power band, you get hp within the narrow band and the bike responds differently. Most of what you'll notice unless you want to join the "stupid-fast on the hwy" club, is the v-twin's instant response at low rpms, and the i-4's acceleration (somewhere after 4k usually). The twin will pull hard but simply won't be able to accelerate you as fast. The i-4 will lag at the bottom and pick up sharply soon after. There's no right or wrong when it comes to which one you get. Simply which one you want to ride. |
| I've been riding for 20 years, I did two seasons of 600 Supersport racing (that killed my pocket book). With your experience, go with the SV650 or the 650 Ninja. End of story. The rider course is MANDITORY before you get the bike! Don't talk yourself out of it, it will save your life and make you a better rider. Last thing to note, do yourself a favor and get a used bike. The money you save can get you better gear. With helmets, go with fit first. Do note though, the higher priced ones are both lighter and quieter. I have both Arai and HJC helmets. I love both, they fit great. The Arai ran me $650 and the HJC was $200. The main difference is the Arai is about 3 times quieter than the HJC and a little bit lighter. Some people advise earplugs when riding, I'm not one of them. For jackets, make sure its a riding jacket and not some Harley looks good jacket. Eventually you'll need two jackets. A mesh style for summer and a good leather for cooler days. Mask sure what ever you get has the built in armor, no exceptions. Motorcycle gloves are also manditory. For footwear, a solid made shoe that covers the ankle will work. One thing that grinds away in a wreck is your ankle bones. Pants are up to you, they make specific ones but I generally run new stiff heavy duty levi's. Not the lightweight stone wash shit that is faded and worn-out. My last jacket was purchased at NewEnough, a $350 leather jacket on close out for $100. Once I took out the extra winter liner its been great. Welcome to motorcycling, take the course and buy a USED bike. You are going to wreck it, probably someone elses fault, but it will be you and the bike sliding down the unforgiving pavement. Be a boyscout, be prepared. |