[ARCHIVED THREAD] - .22LR machine guns (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/28/2006 8:40:47 AM EDT
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I just love .22LR machine guns. I have a Norrell trigger pack for a 10/22, and .22LR conversion kits for my MP5, Uzi, M16, and will get one for my 1928 Thompson smg. The American 180 is high on my list for my next transferrable machine gun. But this is just cool: fully-functioning .22LR minigun Halo Manufacturing          |
I got the spring and ball bearing from Ace True Value Hardware the next day, and it works perfectly. I don't even need to use the anti-bounce carrier weight. (Thanks for the tips, Gorilla, on the modification you did to your Ceiner kit. I did the same thing to mine now: Gorilla's mods to Ceiner kit). |
| I bought extra ball bearings and I have enough spring left over for you, it doesn't take much. I also have tips if you try to do this modification to your own Ceiner kit. Be aware the Ceiner bolt is extremely hard, so you have to use the correct cutter. We wore out several bits in the milling machine, but we finally got the hole drilled. The other challenge was lining up everything in the mill, because the groove for the rail is at an odd angle. But now my Ceiner .22LR kit runs like a sewing machine, and just like Gorilla, I don't even use the carrier anti-bounce weight with it anymore. |
I have a Ciener kit, and would love to do the Gorilla mod, when's a good time? TRG |
Once you said first round, I knew exactly what the problem is with your kit. That's an easy fix, and it is not bolt bounce. Everyone who uses the Ceiner .22LR kit recommends removing the latch from the charging handle. The first round has to overcome just a little bit of extra force from the charging handle's latch being under spring pressure. I would be willing to bet removing the latch from the charging handle will fix that issue for you if you just remove the latch, spring and drift pin from the charging handle. My complete .22LR upper came with a charging handle sans latch and works perfectly. Try it and let us know how it works.... |
I'll give it a try. TRG |
Would a 1/8" titanium drill bit be better suited for the bolt than a standard (i.e. cheap) end mill? As far as the groove on the rails go, I would think you could just clamp the rails down to a riser block and go at them from the side with the end mill. Of course this may make more sense in my head than it does when I actually put the parts on my mill. Do we need to plan a "Gorilla mod" party? |
Well, that would then be bolt bounce. I did my modification at Mark's place in Wills Point, so the next time I head out there, I'll let you know and you can come by and use his shop. (unless JasonDCrum gets his mill up and running soon and volunteers to do it for you)... |
Alrighty, just drop me a line. TRG |
16" upper with FA Ceiner kit so I can use for either M16 or AR15 lower and not worry about SBR legality. |
JasonDCrum knows how to do this modification to the Ceiner M16 .22LR kit because he helped with mine. With so many DFW'ers wanting this modification done to theirs, and with JasonDCrum setting up his own milling machine, I would suggest doing the "Gorilla mod" party at his place soon. |
Cool. I'm getting a 5" barrel for use with my 22 can. Rick said most standard vel ammo is subsonic out of the 5" barrel. I'm going to use it w/ an M16 ceiner kit and put it inside a solid 7" float tube, so you won't even see the barrel. At a glance, the can should just look like a bull barrel. I'll use it on my M16 or my SBR lower. I'll probably end up building a pistol lower for it w/ no receiver extension. We'll all have to get together and have a 22 MG party sometime. Good cheap fun! |
Sounds great. This is my first 22 for M16/AR15 series. Don't like 22 that much because you have to tinker with to make it work well and the ammo is just too dirty and jam often. Hopefully, this changes my perception. |
sounds good to me. TRG |
That's the exact set-up I have. I plan to get the ACE folding stock for mine too. I'm curious whether the new KPF/Kuehl barrel breech design will work better than the old design...? I'm not sure whether I like the new breech adapter, but at least you don't have to modify the receiver plate rails on the Ceiner kit. NEW BARREL BREECH DESIGN DETAILS  New design barrel with breech adapter and unmodified Ciener receiver plate (left). Original design barrel with modified Ciener receiver plate (right).  New design barrel breech end and assembled Ciener kit with breech adapter (top). Original design barrel breech and modified Ciener kit (bottom).  New design barrel and assembled Ciener kit with breech adapter (top). Original design barrel and modified Ciener kit (bottom). |
Could you possibly make those images a little bigger? Geezus!  TRG |
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I'm glad KPF came up with the new design. I had an idea for something amazingly similar in my head, and was trying to figure out how to explain to someone how to do it when I found out Rick was doing another run of barrels/uppers with this new design. I'm currently using the standard chamber adapter w/ my existing uppers, so its bound to be better than that. It doesn't look like the old KPF conversion captures the bolt when its out of the upper, but this one will. |
The standard *unmodified* Ciener .22LR conversion kit does capture the bolt when the complete kit is removed from the upper receiver, but KPF modifies the kit and hence, the old KPF conversion does not capture the bolt when it is out of the upper receiver. |
| I'm looking forward to getting a Ciener conversion for my AC-556 as it seems like nobody has any of the problems that you guys with M-16's have with yours...I'll keep this mod for the M-16 conversion in mind though for when I get the M-16. Great information in this thread! |
Exactly what I thought. I'm currently running the unmodified kit, so I know it captures the bolt. I haven't seen the old KPF conversion firsthand, but from the pictures it looks like he does away with the chamber adapter altogether. I figured no chamber adapter, no way to capture the bolt. Thanks for confirming my suspicion.  |
Actually, the bolt is captured only by the sear trip on the bottom of the rail, which can be slightly tricky to reassemble properly and insert into the upper receiver. |
Have you tried removing the charging handle latch, and if so, then did that remedy the problem with your Ciener bolt not completely closing on the first round? |
I have not tried it. I have not been using the kit much lately. Been busy with other things. TRG |
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SmallChange and/or TRG, wanna come to a machine gun shoot this Saturday, April 29, 2006, at Mark's ranch in Wills Point? It's not too far from you guys. We might also be able to do the modification to your Ciener kits while you're there. So far, I have the following guns coming: M60 belt-fed machine gun MG42 belt-fed machine gun MG34 (maybe) 1919A4 (maybe) American 180 Thompson M1A1 1928 Thompson smg Uzi's Mac10 M11 lots of MP5's (MP5SD, MP5K, MP5K-PDW, briefcase) HK53 M2 carbine Norrell 10/22 packs various M16's maybe (hopefully) a post-sample minigun, but don't count on it lots of suppressors in various calibers Also, there will be a lot of Tannerite and things to blow-up, including old ATM's, computer monitors, computer towers, etc. The only thing you would have to bring is yourself, whatever guns you want to shoot (I'm also bringing my shotgun and a box of clays for skeet), ammo, food and beverages. We plan to fire up the grill for lunch, so bring whatever you want to cook. Also, bring a little extra ammo so Mark and his kids can try all the toys. Let me know if either of you want to join us. |
I'll have to see if I can get a kitchen pass, but I doubt it since I've been on a bender of shooting-related activities the past few weekends. I'll talk to the boss and see what I can come up with. |
OK, see what you can do, this will be one you won't want to miss, I promise. You can bring "the boss" along too. Just look at the list of guns you both can try... |
Same place we hog hunted? I will be there. TRG |
I doubt I will bring a camera, how about I just bring a GF with a smoking hot body and a penchant for buggery? TRG |
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This is what we had today: M60 belt-fed machine gun MG34 belt-fed machine gun Maxim water-cooled belt-fed machine gun American 180 Thompson M1928A1 submachine gun Thompson M1A1 submachine gun several Uzi's several Mac's lots of MP5's (MP5SD, MP5K, MP5K-PDW, briefcase) two HK53's M2 carbine two Norrell 10/22 packs various M16's lots of suppressors in various calibers a lot of Tannerite and things to blow-up, including an old ATM machine The 1919A4, Glock 18, M240B, minigun did not make it to the shoot today, but maybe next time. Now I am going to hock everything I own to buy my own M60E3 or M60E4. |