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Bachman Guns Boycott!

Posted By: Randy in Tx. (38.96.218.103)
Date: 2/4/06 21:17

Guys this is kind of long but factual. I had been debating AOW or SBS
and
decided to do both. Bachman Guns in Dallas,Tx. carries the factory
Reminton AOW's and was close to my work. Not to mention I frequent
their
shop and have made many purchases there in the past. Here goes:

On Thursday, Feb. 2,2006 I traveled 45mi. to buy an AOW Remy from
Bachman
Guns in Dallas, Tx. When I got to their store they were busy. I looked
around and decided all I was going to get on this trip was the AOW. I
notified a sales person that I had purchased from before that I wanted
to
purchase the AOW. He told me Shawn the owner was the only guy who could
do
the paperwork. The salesman told Shawn that I wanted to buy an AOW.
Shawn
asked if I was a corp. or individual buyer. He asked what county I
lived
in and I responded as well as held up a copy of a previous F4 with cleo
sig. He said with a disgusted look on his face that he didn't have time
to
do the paperwork. No apologies whatsoever. OKay! I left in disbelief.
Cooler heads pervailing I thought maybe he was too busy. Round 2:

On Friday, Feb. 3,2006 I went back to Bachman's shop looking to turn in
a
F1 & F4 for CLEO sig that day. I had photo's, prints, & citizenship
forms
with me to deliver as I left his shop. I walked into the shop as always
the sales people ask "what can I help you with!" I told them I was back
to
buy an AOW. They summoned Shawn and as he walked up I stated it was
much
quieter in there than the day before. I told him once again I wanted to
buy an AOW. He asked his salesperson to write me up an invoice. He
brought
out a NIB AOW so the S/N could be recorded on the invoice and I could
inspect. He took my copy of a previous F4, picked up his forms to type
up,
and as he walked to the back I heard him say to his employee's in the
back
"I don't have time for this shit." He returned with his part typed and
asked me to fill out the back including signature. My cleo as well as
the
F4 instructions state to sign in front of sheriff or his designee. I
simply told Shawn about this and he said "I will not sell you a gun
unless
you sign the form." So I signed. He went back to make a copy and came
out
with finger print cards and the old citizenship forms. I told him I
already had print cards made out ready to ship and that there was a
revised citizenship form out(titleii.com). He took them back and came
out
with an envelope stating that after the sheriff signed, he wanted to
review all the forms and I had to bring him the check payable to BATF&E
in
the whopping amount of $5. He and he only would send the forms in
certified mail. I offered to bring in my forms and fp cards for him to
review right then. I said I live 45mi. away and it would be next week
before I could get back as well as I wanted to mail them that day. He
then
looked at me and said "I don't want to sell you a gun." He asked his
sales
person to give him my check back which was paid in full. He handed me
back
my check and said "I don't want to do business with you." I was stuned.

As I was driving my 45mi. back home a buddy of mine that runs Classic
Gun
Shows which Bachman is always at called. I told him the story and he
couldn't believe it. He stopped by and spoke to Shawn in person within
minutes of our conversation. Shawn told my buddy that I was a wise ass
and
that I had previously been in his shop with a dealer picking out a gun
and
then letting my alleged buddy do a dealer transfer for me right there
in
his shop. Folks that never happened!

I will never darken their door again nor give any referals for business
as
I have done in the past. Shawns demeanor and customer service needs a
kick
in the ass. All my buddies are already onboard. Word of mouth and vote
with your feet.

There's too many gun shops to treat people like shit.

If you read this post, THANK YOU!!!

Randy

I don't frequent Dallas guns shops much as I live in Ft. Worth, but I don't reckon wander in that one.  Thanks for lookin' out!

hmm.. they are usually at the houston gunshows.

oh.. I've had a similar issue with them.

I called and got a quote on something, then I drove straight to their shop when I confirmed price and availability. (little did they know I had this quote recorded)

When I got there, they had what I wanted, marked up higher ($5 more) than I was quoted. I pointed this out, they discussed it and came back and said they'd give me the quoted price-- great. I went to pay-- they decided I had to pay 3% higher for a credit card since they are lowering the price "below dealer cost"... that's what they said! WTF? I know for a fact dealer cost is MUCH lower than that!

After driving about 45 miles ON HORRIBLE ICY ROADS DURING RUSH HOUR, I told them I will order online or buy elsewhere. They won't get a dime of my money.

You get the same piss-poor attidtude from the Bachman Pawn people at gun shows.  They act like you are asking too much from them to just look at a gun.  I too have done business with them in the past and will never do business with them again.  What ever happended to trying to make a customer happy.  

Randy has been a customer of mine for 4 years now. Actually, it's more like a customer turned friend. He & I, along with several others, have some very long indepth conversations about everything from religion, our kids, wives, present or past, politics, and we sometimes disagree. I believe it's safe to say we know each other. Randy is very well-read on all the lastest NFA happenings & I very often ask his advice. It sounds like he may have embarrassed the man at Bachman because he knew more about the details of the paperwork than the shop did. He is knowledgable and honest to the point that he has run my shop for me while I ran a errand. He will very often help a customer with a problem because he can answer it better. Bottom line, if he was a smart ass he would never be aloud to talk to my customers. I don't know any body at Bachman, but I do know Randy!!!

Tom's Discount Gun Accessories
8438 Seawright LN.
Royse City, TX.75189
972-636-7226
[email protected]
www.tomsgunshop.com
Class2/sot.
Tom E Reynolds


__________________


Tom

oh yeah, what's an AOW Remy, and how much were they charging you? pics?

I bought one shotgun from Bachman's about a year ago at a gun show.

I got the clear message that they didn't care if I bought from them or not. Very indifferent to me as a customer. Oh well.

I take most of my business to the internet as a result of experiences like this. I sure would like to support local businesses with my patronage, however, I have to have one or the other. I will endure shoddy customer service to a certain extent to get a smokin good deal. OR, I will pay a slightly higher price to have excellent customer service. BUT NOT BOTH.

I can get a better deal on-line and simply not have a real person breathing the same air as me by going to the net..Sux, but hey...that's how people like this make it work out for everyone.

Sorry to hear you were mistreated as a customer.

Wow, I had no idea they did  NFA items.

I've only had one purchase from them, they were nice, but did not go out of thier way or anything. I was getting ready to purchase a SOCOM 16. I think I'll wait a little and shop them more first. Want to see if this is a continuious thing or just a bad week kind of thing.

Well.... there are two sides to every story.... I am not picking one, just saying before everyone dogpiles on.... you really need to see the complaint and rebuttal before you can make an informed decision.  The rebuttal above is hearsay.

That being said, I have always like Bachman.  Only seen them at the shows.... but the guys have always been pretty decent to me.  They are always really busy.... they dont take a lot of time to answer your questions.... but the deal I have done with them went just fine.  It is dissapointing to see this, however.  I hope it was a mistaken identity case.... for their sake.

I bought my first Glock from them in the late 80s. Many other guns over the years, they were my favorite place through the 90s. They have developed a lot of attitude in recent years, it is like you are inconveniencing them if you even ask a question or ask to see something.

I rarely buy from them anymore unless it is a great price or they are the only ones who have it.

He did do me the favor years ago and just came out and told me he does not sell NFA to non-Govt entities, saved me the hassle you went through. If I absolutely needed something NFA from him, I would have him send it to another dealer.

    I don't frequent Any gun shops.  It I want something, it's eighter Gun Shows or WTB on Texas forums.

Quoted: Many other guns over the years, they were my favorite place through the 90s. They have developed a lot of attitude in recent years, it is like you are inconveniencing them if you even ask a question or ask to see something. I rarely buy from them anymore unless it is a great price or they are the only ones who have it.

I have had the exact same experience with them.

At the big Houston show before Christmas, while I finally got them to do the transaction on a pistol, I actually overheard the red/blond headed dude say to one of the other guys working there that they should take their time and slow down a little bit because they had just sold a whole shitload of guns and stuff, including a Barrett.  
Things seemed to work differently when Shawn was actually at the show with them.

I am leary of them because I to was once quoted one price over the phone only
to show up and find it was different once there.

I have not felt any love from these guys, at the shop or show.

I will not spend a dime of my money from people that treat me like crap.

I dont care if I am spending a dollar or 1K !

You are supposed to treat people with respect and not like a piece of crap.

I look at their tables but dont go out of my way to their shop any longer, they really blew it with me.

There have been several threads about issues and this is just another one.

Some day they may get a clue but I doubt it, they havent change in the 10yrs I have known of them

My 2 cents.

I have gotten to know the Bachman employees and Shawn pretty well. I'll buy my guns somewhere else, even if they do have good prices. There are lots of other people who have good guns, good prices, and much much better attitudes.

Nuff said?

Even Jeff Schramm and his people are nicer.

They could not care less about a few unhappy customers, I have heard they do more firearm transfers than most business in the nation. For them it is all about volumn.  Customer service is a luxury they dont take the time for. I have puchased several pistols from them over the years and its only because they have the best price. They have always had that insane 3% charge for cards. So if I have to buy from them I make sure to take cash. I know the customer service from them will be lousy to non existent so I go in expecting it and am not dissapointed

Quoted: Even Jeff Schramm and his people are nicer.

that is sayin something right there folks

Quoted: Even Jeff Schramm and his people are nicer.

Sad but all too true.

Remington AOW

Quoted: Quoted: Even Jeff Schramm and his people are nicer. Sad but all too true.

talked to both of them about an FNP-9 at the last DACA show. At least Shram would acknowlegde the gun exists.


Also, after seeing Bachmans $2395 for a PS-90 i decided never to buy from someone who was out to screw customers that bad.

Quoted: Man I thought I was the only one with a bad experience with them. When I first moved to TX, I went there and was looking at a Walther P22. I asked one of the guys to see I could look at one of them. He said he ws helping someone and will be with me shortly. Well he gets done and starting helping someone else. So another guy passes by, I ask for help. I get the same story. After he finishes helping his customer he too starts to help someone else. So I just walked out and bought mine at Gunmaster.

I tried to by my P22 from them a couple of years ago at the Market Hall show. Their attitude was as if they just got audited. They were pretty rude and acted like my money ment nothing. Then with luck on my side I posted a WTB on the EE and found a P22 with less than 100 rounds for $125

In my opinion, word of mouth can be the best advertisement (bad or good) Bachman employees just might need a refresher course on how to treat a customer.

Wow, I have never had a bad experience with bachman.  They are busy, and it's obvious it's a volume business.  

I do know they do business their way.  When I bought my AR10T from them, I got a great deal, because they were pissed at Armalite, and were no longer going to carry their weapons.  They said Armalite was giving to another distributer cheaper than them.  He sold me the T for cost plust 10% (PLUS 3% FOR USING A CC, A STANDARD IN THE GUN INDUSTRY, NO MATTER WHAT THE CC COMPANIES SAY ABOUT IT, WHINEY BITCHES).  And I ended up getting it around $1800.


Bachman also has the lowest prices I ever see at any gunstores.  

I have, and will continue to recommend them to folks.

TXL

I've always had good luck at BP & G..........

Not that I'm saying you should be vindictive or anything... but companies that charge different prices for using a credit card are violating the terms of the card agreement and can have their accounts suspended for the practice if the card company finds out.

Quoted: Not that I'm saying you should be vindictive or anything... but companies that charge different prices for using a credit card are violating the terms of the card agreement and can have their accounts suspended for the practice if the card company finds out.

Almost EVERY dealer at every gunshow offers a "cash discount".  This is the way of things.  When margins are tight... they have to do this.  3% is a big chunk of a small margin.  I'd rather have this option of a better cash price than complain about it... and see the cash prices taken away, and everything being charged the higher price.

Quoted: Quoted: Not that I'm saying you should be vindictive or anything... but companies that charge different prices for using a credit card are violating the terms of the card agreement and can have their accounts suspended for the practice if the card company finds out. Almost EVERY dealer at every gunshow offers a "cash discount".  This is the way of things.  When margins are tight... they have to do this.  3% is a big chunk of a small margin.  I'd rather have this option of a better cash price than complain about it... and see the cash prices taken away, and everything being charged the higher price.

+1

Yeah I don't have any strong feelings either way, just pointing out that it is in violation when people do that.

Quoted: Not that I'm saying you should be vindictive or anything... but companies that charge different prices for using a credit card are violating the terms of the card agreement and can have their accounts suspended for the practice if the card company finds out.

We are not charging a different price for using your credit card, we are offering you a discout for using cash.

Quoted: We are not charging a different price for using your credit card, we are offering you a discout for using cash.

While I have NO problem with it.... you and I BOTH know that is just twisting words around.  

^  +1

Who wants to carry that much cash around anyway?  I always use my CC for large purchases because I don't like to carry around 100's of dollars.  Pisses me off that gun dealers don't like CCs.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: We are not charging a different price for using your credit card, we are offering you a discout for using cash. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While I have NO problem with it.... you and I BOTH know that is just twisting words around.

+1

Who wants to carry that much cash around anyway? I always use my CC for large purchases because I don't like to carry around 100's of dollars. Pisses me off that gun dealers don't like CCs.

They have to pay that fee to the cc company to allow you the convenience of being able to use your cc.  I guess they could all just charge the cc price and not offer a cash discount to those of us willing to carry the cash around.....

FWIW

Quoted: They have to pay that fee to the cc company to allow you the convenience of being able to use your cc.  I guess they could all just charge the cc price and not offer a cash discount to those of us willing to carry the cash around..... FWIW

You sure about that? My bank says otherwise.

Quoted: Quoted: They have to pay that fee to the cc company to allow you the convenience of being able to use your cc.  I guess they could all just charge the cc price and not offer a cash discount to those of us willing to carry the cash around..... FWIW You sure about that? My bank says otherwise.

 there's a processing fee that cc charge us, at the gun shows we charge 3% more for the credit cards

Quoted: Quoted: We are not charging a different price for using your credit card, we are offering you a discout for using cash. While I have NO problem with it.... you and I BOTH know that is just twisting words around.

It is a legal distinction, yes.  Why do I want to loose $30.00 on every gun because YOU don't like to carry cash.  We both know the Credit Card Companies have powerful lobbying efforts.  What has been passed into law is not necessarily a good thing for businesses or consumers, it certainly is for Credit Card Compaines.  It is legal, so quit bitching and use cash.  Cash is King.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We are not charging a different price for using your credit card, we are offering you a discout for using cash. While I have NO problem with it.... you and I BOTH know that is just twisting words around.   It is a legal distinction, yes.  Why do I want to loose $30.00 on every gun because YOU don't like to carry cash.  We both know the Credit Card Companies have powerful lobbying efforts.  What has been passed into law is not necessarily a good thing for businesses or consumers, it certainly is for Credit Card Compaines.  It is legal, so quit bitching and use cash.  Cash is King.

+1

It is the lobbying efforts and our Representatives we should be fighting, not each other.

I guess I crossed the picket line-I just bought a NRM Colt 1911 at B P & G about 3 hours ago.

Quoted: I guess I crossed the picket line-

Mister, you LIVE on the other side of the picket line.  

Well I can understand small volume dealers not wanting to pay the CC company the fees but nonetheless the best deals I usually find are through companies that don't offer the 'cash discount' anyways.  It's a consumer-driven business.

I think gun dealing generally has a much smaller margin than other businesses because it's one of the only businesses I see doing this kind of thing.  People would throw a fit if other businesses did it.  I think the gun crowd likes to pay in cash because they're extra paranoid.

The 3% is lame anyway you look at it...
You have to run a business in a profitable way.  If 3% damages your business you need to re-evaluate your price structure.  
Dealers whine about small margins on guns, but never a peep on the jacked-up other stuff in the store.
The problem is business basics.  Most (not all) gunshops have sales people who can't sell water in the desert.  It’s all about price.  Which if they listened to people they would find it's not always about price.  It’s about a warm fuzzy for 9 out of 10 people.  
Alas the circle continues...  

Its the M&A Parts style of customer service rearing its ugly head again.

Quoted: The 3% is lame anyway you look at it... You have to run a business in a profitable way.  If 3% damages your business you need to re-evaluate your price structure.   Dealers whine about small margins on guns, but never a peep on the jacked-up other stuff in the store. The problem is business basics.  Most (not all) gunshops have sales people who can't sell water in the desert.  It’s all about price.  Which if they listened to people they would find it's not always about price.  It’s about a warm fuzzy for 9 out of 10 people.   Alas the circle continues...

And which gunshop do you own, run, work at or have in the past.  How many tables do you have at all the gunshows.  Don't you read all the post about what a great dealer X is because their prices are the best.  Sure there is more to running a successful gunshop other than price, but don't fool yourself, for the majority of people price is the primary concern.  I personally don't charge an additional charge for credit card use in face to face transactions.  I lose .0174, I suck it up.  It can be up to .0374 for non face to face transactions.  You take my product home with you that day and I might get paid two to four days later.  Then there is always the idiot who disputes the charge.  I lose if I don't have a signature and I have the charges associated with that.  Credit Cards are evil, a necessary evil.  Some of you act like it is some sort of liberal government entitlement program, take money out of my pocket so you have the luxury of immediate gratification.  I favor the pay as you go sort of approach.  You use the service, you pay for it.

Quoted: Quoted: The 3% is lame anyway you look at it... You have to run a business in a profitable way.  If 3% damages your business you need to re-evaluate your price structure.   Dealers whine about small margins on guns, but never a peep on the jacked-up other stuff in the store. The problem is business basics.  Most (not all) gunshops have sales people who can't sell water in the desert.  It’s all about price.  Which if they listened to people they would find it's not always about price.  It’s about a warm fuzzy for 9 out of 10 people.   Alas the circle continues...   And which gunshop do you own, run, work at or have in the past.  How many tables do you have at all the gunshows.  Don't you read all the post about what a great dealer X is because their prices are the best.  Sure there is more to running a successful gunshop other than price, but don't fool yourself, for the majority of people price is the primary concern.  I personally don't charge an additional charge for credit card use in face to face transactions.  I lose .0174, I suck it up.  It can be up to .0374 for non face to face transactions.  You take my product home with you that day and I might get paid two to four days later.  Then there is always the idiot who disputes the charge.  I lose if I don't have a signature and I have the charges associated with that.  Credit Cards are evil, a necessary evil.  Some of you act like it is some sort of liberal government entitlement program, take money out of my pocket so you have the luxury of immediate gratification.  I favor the pay as you go sort of approach.  You use the service, you pay for it.

I'm confused do you or do you not stand by YOUR policy of not adding the 3%
Paying via CC is not any type of gov program.  It is the COST of doing business...just like lights, rent, electricity, ect ect.  
I do not own a gun shop...however Business is Business...
If price were EVERYONES only concern we would all only buy the cheapest widget…No one would buy MB/BMW, No Armani suits, no Rolex watches, you get the picture…correct?? Is this true?  No not at all.  People spend $$$ at places and things that make them happy.
Many folks will pay for service...Do you not agree?
I will pay more for a great shopping experience. I do not think I am different from many others on here.
The cheapskates will be cheap...you can't fight that.
However a LOYAL following is what will keep a gunshop in business (and profitable) for years to come. PERIOD
As far as covering your rear on CC transactions…That’s all part of the game.

Next issue on the gunstore owner’s list  is that they have to add a fee for "viewing"..You know those displays run $500-$1000 bucks, then you have your AC/Heating cost, Carpet (and carpet cleaning). Who do you think pays for those

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 3% is lame anyway you look at it... You have to run a business in a profitable way.  If 3% damages your business you need to re-evaluate your price structure.   Dealers whine about small margins on guns, but never a peep on the jacked-up other stuff in the store. The problem is business basics.  Most (not all) gunshops have sales people who can't sell water in the desert.  It’s all about price.  Which if they listened to people they would find it's not always about price.  It’s about a warm fuzzy for 9 out of 10 people.   Alas the circle continues...   And which gunshop do you own, run, work at or have in the past.  How many tables do you have at all the gunshows.  Don't you read all the post about what a great dealer X is because their prices are the best.  Sure there is more to running a successful gunshop other than price, but don't fool yourself, for the majority of people price is the primary concern.  I personally don't charge an additional charge for credit card use in face to face transactions.  I lose .0174, I suck it up.  It can be up to .0374 for non face to face transactions.  You take my product home with you that day and I might get paid two to four days later.  Then there is always the idiot who disputes the charge.  I lose if I don't have a signature and I have the charges associated with that.  Credit Cards are evil, a necessary evil.  Some of you act like it is some sort of liberal government entitlement program, take money out of my pocket so you have the luxury of immediate gratification.  I favor the pay as you go sort of approach.  You use the service, you pay for it. I'm confused do you or do you not stand by YOUR policy of not adding the 3% Paying via CC is not any type of gov program.  It is the COST of doing business...just like lights, rent, electricity, ect ect.   I do not own a gun shop...however Business is Business... If price were EVERYONES only concern we would all only buy the cheapest widget…No one would buy MB/BMW, No Armani suits, no Rolex watches, you get the picture…correct?? Is this true?  No not at all.  People spend $$$ at places and things that make them happy. Many folks will pay for service...Do you not agree? I will pay more for a great shopping experience. I do not think I am different from many others on here. The cheapskates will be cheap...you can't fight that. However a LOYAL following is what will keep a gunshop in business (and profitable) for years to come. PERIOD As far as covering your rear on CC transactions…That’s all part of the game. Next issue on the gunstore owner’s list  is that they have to add a fee for "viewing"..You know those displays run $500-$1000 bucks, then you have your AC/Heating cost, Carpet (and carpet cleaning). Who do you think pays for those

I do not charge for using credit cards.  My Merchant Account charges me .0374 if I did accept credit cards over the phone.  I do not accept credit cards over the phone.  Gunshows charge an entrance fee, Night Clubs charge a cover charge I think you might be on to something.  If I worked for a clothing store or a furniture store I don't think 3% would make much of a difference.  I sell guns and the national average is about 10%.  That is a significant difference.