Posted: 12/15/2011 9:04:51 AM EDT
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From the BBC:
Gun attacks in Europe As more details emerge of the shooting spree and grenade attack in Belgium in which five people died, the BBC News website takes a look at other recent incidents in Europe - and the effect they have had on each country's laws. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16176658 
(While gun homicides might be higher in Germany and France compared to England/Wales - Germany and France have about 5 times more guns in private hands than the British - the overall homicide rate in Germany is actually 30% lower than Britain's. And France's overall homicide rate is exactly the same as Britain's.) Norway Seventy-seven people were killed in twin attacks on 22 July 2011 in Norway. Anders Behring Breivik has admitted that he planted a car bomb that exploded close to government offices in the capital Oslo, killing eight people. He then drove to the island of Utoeya, where a summer camp for the governing Labour Party's youth wing was being held, and shot dead 69 people, most of them teenagers. Breivik has been declared a paranoid schizophrenic after months of assessment and is more likely to be detained in a mental institute rather than prison. In a 1,500 page manifesto, he outlined his radical right-wing views and the steps he took to obtain powerful guns - including joining a firearms club in 2005 to increase his chances to obtain a Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol six years later. Norway has restrictions on gun ownership but hunting is popular. Breivik wrote in his application for a licence to own a semi-automatic weapon that he needed the gun to hunt deer. In the aftermath of the attacks Norway's police chief, Oeystein Maeland, said that he wanted a tightening of the laws on semi-automatic weapon ownership. A committee established by the Norwegian Justice Department to investigate the country's gun controls has recommended a new law with greater emphasis on safety and preventative measures. Suggestions include regular monitoring of licensed gun owners and checking with household members of applicants that they are aware of the application. .......... Netherlands In April 2011 a gunman killed six people at a shopping centre in Alphen aan den Rijn using an automatic weapon. The attacker, Tristan van der Vlis, later killed himself. He was a member of a local gun club and legally owned three guns - despite having previously been a resident at a psychiatric institution. The Netherlands has low levels of gun ownership and relatively strict firearms laws. Applicants for a licence must prove that they have a genuine reason to want a gun, such as hunting, being a sports shooter or a collector. They must pass background checks and re-apply every year. In September Radio Netherlands Worldwide reported that the Dutch security and justice minister planned to ban semi-automatic rifles, saying it was unacceptable for members of a shooting club to have such a weapon, let alone keep one at home". .......... United Kingdom A gunman killed 12 people and injured 11 on a rampage in Cumbria in north-west England in June 2010. Taxi driver Derrick Bird shot dead a colleague in the town of Whitehaven, before driving through the countryside apparently targeting people at random. The 52-year-old used legally held firearms but had received a suspended sentence for theft 20 years earlier. In September 2011 the Home Office, reviewing recommendations from a committee of MPs in the wake of the attack, said it would update guidance rather than making any new laws. It indicated that in future it might be that someone who had been given a suspended sentence would be refused a firearms licence. Gun laws were significantly tightened in Britain following the massacres in Hungerford in 1987 and in Dunblane in 1996. .......... Germany Fifteen people plus the gunman died in a shooting spree by a teenager in south-west Germany in March 2009. The 17-year-old killed nine pupils and three teachers at his former school in Winnenden, then three more people after leaving the premises. The gunman's father was later convicted of breaking Germany's gun laws as his legally held weapons (one of which was used by his son) were not stored securely. In April 2002 a former student at a school in Erfurt killed 16 people then himself. German laws were tightened after the Erfurt massacre, increasing the minimum age for purchasing guns from 18 to 21, banning pistol-grip shotguns and outlawing certain types of knives. In July 2009, following the deaths in Winnenden, they were amended to allow routine checks on storage for firearms at licence holders' homes. .......... Finland In September 2008 a 22-year-old student shot 10 people at a college in the town of Kauhajoki before turning the gun on himself. It was less than a year after an attack at Jokela High School in which seven students, a teacher and the gunman died. Finnish gun laws were among the most relaxed in Europe, and in 2007 the interior ministry said there were 1.6 million licensed firearms for its population of just over five million people. Most of these licences are issued for hunting which is a popular sport in Finland. In June 2011 new laws came into force which raised the minimum age for a handgun licence to 20, introduced a risk assessment test for would-be gun owners, and restricted the availability of handguns. .......... Switzerland In 2001, a disgruntled local man shot dead 14 people in the Swiss town of Zug. Friedrich Leibacher, 57, burst into a session of the local assembly disguised as a police officer and opened fire. Switzerland has a high rate of gun ownership as Swiss men keep their army gun at home after they finish compulsory military service. No-one knows the exact number of guns as there is no national register but it is estimated that there are two to three million firearms in the country, which has a population of seven million. Voters rejected proposed tighter controls on gun ownership in a referendum in April 2011. |
| While gun homicides might be higher in Germany and France compared to England/Wales - Germany and France have about 5 times more guns in private hands than the British - the overall homicide rate in Germany is actually 30% lower than Britain's. And France's overall homicide rate is exactly the same as Britain's. |
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Notice they make no mention of illegally held guns.
That 0.3% of gun crime for the England and Wales also includes illegally held guns and accounts for ALL reported gun crime - not just that from licensed firearms. The contribution of licensed firearms to that figure is miniscule. Note also that the Swiss rate of firearms ownership is almost 50 per 100 persons. Yet their crime figures are practically non-existant. The BBC doesn't point that out, instead it focuses mass shooting and tightening laws. |
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Quoted: Notice they make no mention of illegally held guns. That 0.3% of gun crime for the England and Wales also includes illegally held guns and accounts for ALL reported gun crime - not just that from licensed firearms. The contribution of licensed forearms to that figure is miniscule. he  he lets be honest , we have more deaths per year from dog bites than we do legally held firearms , but that don't make good news . |
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It's shocking to see that Britain is the most unarmed country in Europe. The tabloid media in Britain and the moral panic it provokes has completely decimated shooting sports. It's down to the public really. They have been brainwashed for years and assume that if you bury your head in the sand and make it all go away by law then there will never be a problem. They believe that to be unarmed is to be safe. It's at the point now where the idea of owning a firearm doesn't cross most people's minds. Firearms offences are so low in the UK that the fear is now pretty low and it's down to pure apathy. Gun ownership in the UK is purely for target shooting/hunting. The concept of firearms for self defence is a distant memory. The legislation has been effective in detering legitimate gun ownership, that's for certain, and many people are still under the illusion that guns are completely banned outright. This has ld to a national de-skilling when it comes to firearms handling. Even if the laws were repealed and ownership were to be encouraged, there are insufficient facilities to be able to train a large influx of new civilian shooters in the safe handling of firearms. Owning firearms requires a degree of independence, trust, personal responsibility and accountability. Our Govt for the last 40 years has deemed us unworthy of independence, trust, responsibility and accountability. However criminal gun ownership is on the increase and as is the risk to national security from armed attackers. The reality is that if you can flood the country with drugs, you can flood it with illegal firearms. We are rapidly approaching a position where it may be easier to get a gun illegally than by doing it illegally. |
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Quoted: Might be true. Might not - it really is hard to be sure.I understand gun crime in Britain (despite it being low to start with) has actually doubled since 1997. As ususal, the figures can be read in different ways. When the figures are so low to start with (as you point out) you have to be careful about the conclusions you draw so for example the BBC says this : '...According to Home Office figures, there were 59 firearms-related homicides in 2006-07 compared with 49 in the previous year. That is an increase of 18% in just one year....' The antis will scream OMG! thats a disaster, think of the childeren - and call for yet more bans, compulsory licensing of cap-guns...we know the story. But in fact the number of homicides went up by just 10. Which I'd say isn't significant at all in population of 60-odd Million. More Austrailians die from iPods than that. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/07/ipod_fatalities/ And then the BBC go on to say "...There were 507 serious injuries from firearms - more than one incident a day. But at the same time, the trend in gun crime overall has been going down." Its hard to know what the hell is going on. Those who are claiming a "doubling of gun crime" frequently forget to mention that the way that gun crime is recorded has changed significantly because many new 'gun crime offenses' have been created, which weren't gun crime at all before. e.g. possesing a gun shaped bit of wood with intend to play cowboys is now a firearms offence  Full Article is here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm And before you all get sand in the mangina, I know the BBC are a bunch of leftie faggots and you can't trust a word they say.  |
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Might be true. Might not - it really is hard to be sure.
I understand gun crime in Britain (despite it being low to start with) has actually doubled since 1997. As ususal, the figures can be read in different ways. When the figures are so low to start with (as you point out) you have to be careful about the conclusions you draw so for example the BBC says this : '...According to Home Office figures, there were 59 firearms-related homicides in 2006-07 compared with 49 in the previous year. That is an increase of 18% in just one year....' The antis will scream OMG! thats a disaster, think of the childeren - and call for yet more bans, compulsory licensing of cap-guns...we know the story. But in fact the number of homicides went up by just 10. Which I'd say isn't significant at all in population of 60-odd Million. More Austrailians die from iPods than that. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/07/ipod_fatalities/ And then the BBC go on to say "...There were 507 serious injuries from firearms - more than one incident a day. But at the same time, the trend in gun crime overall has been going down." Its hard to know what the hell is going on. Those who are claiming a "doubling of gun crime" frequently forget to mention that the way that gun crime is recorded has changed significantly because many new 'gun crime offenses' have been created, which weren't gun crime at all before. e.g. possesing a gun shaped bit of wood with intend to play cowboys is now a firearms offence
Full Article is here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm And before you all get sand in the mangina, I know the BBC are a bunch of leftie faggots and you can't trust a word they say.
But if you take the overall rate of reported gun crime (according to your Home Office), if memory serves, there were something like 4500 reported incidents in 1997. Fast forward 6 years (again if memory serves) that figure had risen to just under 10,000. The last time I checked the reported figures were above this number. The Home Offices figures also show that handgun crime has doubled since the end of the 90s. You can't base conclusions as you quite rightly say on one year's figures, but you can point to the fact that gun crime has risen substantially. As you have started from nowhere makes the rise even more dramatic, but it still is a very dramatic and worrying rise. In fact, I seem to recall, your Home Secretary at the time (Jack Straw I think) actually admit in an interview with one of your left leaning broadsheet newspapers that gun crime had nearly tripled in some parts of Britain. |
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A thread like this comes up about once every 6 months or so.. it always ends with the same conclusion too - one that adds further support to the overwhelming weight of evidence of what we already know to be true -that the BBC (and more generally the tabloid press and UK MSM) has been overrun by a collective of pussy-whipped liberal-fucktards cast from the same socialist-nanny-knows-best-European-'project' super state, skinny latte-with-a-hint-of-f*cking-mint c**ts as the bunch that started reaming us out in 1997. The facts may speak for themselves, unfortunately the sheeple are for the most part too stupid to question, understand or care.  |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Might be true. Might not - it really is hard to be sure.
I understand gun crime in Britain (despite it being low to start with) has actually doubled since 1997. As ususal, the figures can be read in different ways. When the figures are so low to start with (as you point out) you have to be careful about the conclusions you draw so for example the BBC says this : '...According to Home Office figures, there were 59 firearms-related homicides in 2006-07 compared with 49 in the previous year. That is an increase of 18% in just one year....' The antis will scream OMG! thats a disaster, think of the childeren - and call for yet more bans, compulsory licensing of cap-guns...we know the story. But in fact the number of homicides went up by just 10. Which I'd say isn't significant at all in population of 60-odd Million. More Austrailians die from iPods than that. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/07/ipod_fatalities/ And then the BBC go on to say "...There were 507 serious injuries from firearms - more than one incident a day. But at the same time, the trend in gun crime overall has been going down." Its hard to know what the hell is going on. Those who are claiming a "doubling of gun crime" frequently forget to mention that the way that gun crime is recorded has changed significantly because many new 'gun crime offenses' have been created, which weren't gun crime at all before. e.g. possesing a gun shaped bit of wood with intend to play cowboys is now a firearms offence
Full Article is here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm And before you all get sand in the mangina, I know the BBC are a bunch of leftie faggots and you can't trust a word they say.
But if you take the overall rate of reported gun crime (according to your Home Office), if memory serves, there were something like 4500 reported incidents in 1997. Fast forward 6 years (again if memory serves) that figure had risen to just under 10,000. The last time I checked the reported figures were above this number. The Home Offices figures also show that handgun crime has doubled since the end of the 90s. You can't base conclusions as you quite rightly say on one year's figures, but you can point to the fact that gun crime has risen substantially. As you have started from nowhere makes the rise even more dramatic, but it still is a very dramatic and worrying rise. In fact, I seem to recall, your Home Secretary at the time (Jack Straw I think) actually admit in an interview with one of your left leaning broadsheet newspapers that gun crime had nearly tripled in some parts of Britain. As individual says the reporting of these offences has changed. The law has been changed to being about a whole new raft of offences for airsoft guns and replicas has changed under the Anti-Social Behaviour legislation. Whichever way you look at it, if you get gun ownership down far enough and dumb people down enough, you can tell them anything because they lack the knowledge to see through the bullshit. |
| Murder rates are irrelevant to a law abiding citizen who legally carries a gun who is also backed by self defense laws tilted in favor of the law abiding. In the US they add homicides (killings of criminals) by police officers into the murder statistic and because we have a very aggressive war on drugs it makes the murder statistic in the US completely irrelevant. A high murder rate in a region could simply be due to a well funded police force. |
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Quoted: Notice they make no mention of illegally held guns. That 0.3% of gun crime for the England and Wales also includes illegally held guns and accounts for ALL reported gun crime - not just that from licensed firearms. The contribution of licensed firearms to that figure is miniscule. Note also that the Swiss rate of firearms ownership is almost 50 per 100 persons. Yet their crime figures are practically non-existant. The BBC doesn't point that out, instead it focuses mass shooting and tightening laws. It's an unfortunate fact that the three most horrific gun crimes, and a few other less well known incidents, in the UK, Hungerford, Dunblane and Whitehaven, were all perpetrated with legally held firearms (although arguably the first two could have been prevented). It was some cold comfort that even the PM commented that you can't legislate for a madman though.......... Much gun crime with unlicensed firearms goes unreported as it's gang on gang related. |