Posted: 11/3/2010 11:52:55 PM EDT
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Sound like a good idea?
I think so. I've been contacted by a fellow from one of the French shooting associations with a view to getting this up and running for next year. It's very early days but they have been in contact with their counterparts from Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Luxembourg and plan to hold the event somewhere near the France, Belgian, Germany border region. They have also sent me a provisional CoF and asked for our views. I have my own thoughts on this but will post it up later for all to mull over |
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Are we disadvantaged by only having straight-pull? G Suppose it depends on COF, but theoretically, yes ! 
I used straight pulls in their infancy back in the day & hated them. I think the straight pull has no doubt been refined by those producing them as some of the makers compete also. But, the man behind the gun can make the difference. 
Regardless, a Euro comp is always a bloody good crack ! 
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Well, I have only shot at a comp in Europe once and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Count me in. Need lots of notice though. Eh? We can't even get you to shoot at Bisley  I get to Bisley with my home club 12 times per year. I also do the 3 gallery rifle / action weekend / championships. I managed the CSR championships this year. So, I do get there a fair bit 
I would shoot seven days a week but pesky things like work, paying the mortgage, financial issues, waiting for gunplumbers to build rifles and a wife demanding of my time make it impossible. I had lots of notice for the CSR championships and managed to attend. If I get same for the Euro thingy, I am sure I can manage that too. |
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What a load of old cobblers...
What about the 3 NRA action weekends. How many do you miss due to prior engagements?? How many of those ultra dynamic 12 club shoots do you miss through other commitments? But whn it comes to the absolutely fabulous CSR matches? You always seem to find a stone in your shoe or some other lame excuse. You're almost as bad as the bloke with the owl....... |
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What a load of old cobblers... What about the 3 NRA action weekends. How many do you miss due to prior engagements?? How many of those ultra dynamic 12 club shoots do you miss through other commitments? But whn it comes to the absolutely fabulous CSR matches? You always seem to find a stone in your shoe or some other lame excuse. You're almost as bad as the bloke with the owl....... Bollocks I was busy. PS Lumpys now gonna get ya 
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You might want to let some of your buddies across the water know about this one, there might be a few that would like to attend.  Well I certainly would do that but this may well prove to be more difficult than I imagined! I've spent the day emailing the guys in France trying to find some common ground, but it seems we n the UK are light years ahead of our European brothers when it comes to SR 
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......but it seems we in the UK are light years ahead of our European brothers when it comes to SR I expected no less... Indeed but I had lived in hope.... 
I'll post up the other stuff when I get in tonight so you can all see what I mean. I do have a proposal though that Litlegavin and I gave been formulating |
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......but it seems we in the UK are light years ahead of our European brothers when it comes to SR I expected no less... Indeed but I had lived in hope....
I'll post up the other stuff when I get in tonight so you can all see what I mean. I do have a proposal though that Litlegavin and I gave been formulating Good luck with it. You have ny support. |
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You might want to let some of your buddies across the water know about this one, there might be a few that would like to attend. Well I certainly would do that but this may well prove to be more difficult than I imagined! I've spent the day emailing the guys in France trying to find some common ground, but it seems we n the UK are light years ahead of our European brothers when it comes to SR Why not hold it at Bisley Camp?. On second thoughts I wouldn't be able to bring the gun I want to - Europe it has to be. |
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OK,
Here's where we are, they sent me their proposed CoF, and to say I was disappointed would be an understatement. After talking to the French chap and me explaining that it was somewhat sedate and a far cry from what we do, he explained that he has tried to accomodate everyone, and in fact they are the only nation that shoots rapid fire (60 secs). I told him the we were used to stuff being a little dynamic. Anyhow, here's their CoF INTERNATIONAL SERVICE ARMS CONTEST 1.GENERAL RULES & MATCH PROGRAM 1.1.General Rules The following rules govern the ISAC, which is intended to bring together service firearms shooters who are members of the various European national Target Shooting Federations. Beyond the competition itself, this friendly match is to be a privileged opportunity for meeting, and sharing experiences with, shooters from all backgrounds and is meant to pave the way for a European Service Firearms Championship. 1.2. Match Program 1.2.1.Rifle matches – Distance : 200 meters 30 recorded shots, prone, no rests, C200 target Course of fire : -Sighters : unlimited (5 mn) -Slow fire : 2 strings of 10 shots (7 mm each) -Fast fire : 1 string of 10 shots in at least 2 loadings (3 mn for bolt rifles ; 90 s for semi-autos). 4 rankings for awards : a)Bolt rifles, original version, standard sights b)Semi-automatic rifles in calibers larger than 222/223 Rem, original version, standard sights c)Semi-automatic rifles in 222/223 Rem caliber, original version, standard sights d)“Open” Match : bolt & semi-automatic rifles with improvements of military manufacture or exact replicas (sights, stock, optics…). All shooting accessories accepted (e.g. ISSF jackets, slings). 1.2.2. 22 LR military training rifles – distance : 50 m 30 recorded shots, prone and standing, C50 target Course of fire : -Sighters : unlimited (5 mn) -Prone : 2 strings of 10 shots (7 mm each) -Standing : 1 string of 10 shots, no rests (5 mn). 1.2.3. Gong pistol match – distance : 25 meters 30 recorded shots, C50 target and gongs Course of fire : -Sighters : unlimited (3 mn) -Slow fire : 1 string of 10 shots in 2 loadings of 5, with one unsupported arm, C50 target (5 mn) -Fast fire : 20 shots in 4 series of 5 shots, 20 cm X 20 cm metal gongs at 20 cm intervals. First 2 strings in 20 secs each ; last two in 10 secs. Standing, no rests, arm(s) at a 45° angle in the waiting position until the command “FIRE” is given. 1.2.4. Military rapid fire pistol match – distance : 25 m 30 recorded shots, rapid fire 25 meter target Course of fire : -Sighters : 1 string of 5 shots in 20 secs -3 strings of 5 shots in 20 secs each -3 strings of 5 shots in 10 secs each Standing, no rests, arm(s) at a 45° angle in the waiting position until the command “FIRE” is given. 2.FIREARMS, AMMUNITION AND EQUIPMENT 2.1. Firearms 2.1.1.Rifle requirements for bolt and semi-automatic matches -All military firearms and their civilian “clones” are eligible, original caliber or rechambered. -External appearance must be the same as that of the original model (standard sights). Minor modifications in front and rear sights dimensions will be accepted. -Sling must be attached in two points and must be of an unmodified military model, though not necessarily the firearm’s original sling. -Minimum trigger weight is 1.360 kg ; 1.5 kg for semi-automatic rifles. 2.1.2.Rifle requirements for the “OPEN” match Same rules as for the above matches, except for the sights which may be benefit from improvements of strict military design : -Match military diopters, tunnels - front sights can be of the ring type -National Match front and rear sights -Military optics or their exact civilian replicas. Specialized military sniper rifles (e.g. FRF1, Dragunov, etc.) are also welcome. 2.1.3. 22 LR military trainers -All 22 LR bolt military training rifles and their civilian “clones” are eligible. External appearance must be strictly identical to the original model, but sight improvements of military manufacture (such as diopters or 8/53 alternative sight) will be accepted. -The sling, of unmodified military design, must be attached in two points. It may not be the rifle’s original sling. -Minimum trigger weight is 1.360 kg. 2.1.4. Handguns All service handguns and their civilian “clones” are eligible. “Combat-type” sights only (no finely adjustable rear sights) Grips must be of standard design (no anatomic grips). Minimum trigger weight is 1.360 kg. 2.2. Ammunition Either manufactured or properly handloaded The following bullet designs will not be accepted : incendiary, explosive, tracer, armour-piercing, uncoated lead (except for the 22 LR caliber). 2.3. Equipment The following chart indicates the compulsory (C), accepted, (A), forbidden (F), or not applicable (NA) status of each item of equipment for the different matches : EquipmentStandard rifleOPEN rifle22LR trainerHandgun Ear protectionCCCC Eye protectionCCAC Shooting matAAANA Spotting scopeAAAA ISSF equipment (jacket, glove, etc.)FAFF/NA Non ISSF jacket and gloveAAANA Soft elbow padsAAANA Special Knobloch-type shooting glasses are accepted for all matches. The lenses, made of unbreakable material, must be large enough to provide full frontal eye protection while in the shooting position. Any devices with peep sights, magnifying, polarizing lenses, etc., are forbidden. 3.Refereeing 3.1. Firearms inspection -Firearms will be inspected on the firing line at the beginning of each relay. A firearm that does not comply with the rules may be fired, except if that firearm is deemed unsafe (e.g. trigger weight under the minimum limit). However, the score will not be considered for ranking or awards. -On the day of the match or the day before, shooters will have to withdraw their match card(s). While doing so, they will be allowed to have their firearms inspected for compliance with the match rules if they wish to, in order to avoid any unpleasant surprises on the firing line inspection. -Should a range officer or referee’s decision be challenged, the complaint will be decided by an international jury with one representative from each participating country. 3.2. Scoring -In the event of a bullet impact cutting the line between two rings, the higher point will be scored. -In the Gong pistol match, the gong must fall over to be scored (not just hit). 5 points will be scored for each fallen gong. -In the 22 LR match, the number of bull’s eyes will be counted and used to break ties. -If the shooters with the best three scores are tied, the following rules will apply : -1. The highest score in the fast fire string will win, -2. Then, if necessary, the highest number of 10s, then 9s, then 8s … for the whole match. -3. If any shooters are still tied, the jounger/youngest one will rank higher/highest.. This set of rules is meant to be subject to change. Any worthwhile proposal will be considered after being sanctioned by a technical committee. |
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I then sent him the CoF for the last CSR match at Bisley and also the one for next weekend to show him how we roll in Blighty and he said "Aah................I see what you mean by more dynamic"!! He then explained that what we do would be hard in France...and other parts of Europe because: In France, they find it difficult to shoot further than 200M, and their ranges don't have butts or mechanical frames. The Belgians and Luxemburgers only have access to 100M ranges. The Swiss only use bipods and prone shooting. I asked him if this is what their military shot and he said that when he was in 20 years ago, all military shooting was done on bullseyes at 200M with bipods. Their match will also use bullseyes and in fact what they do is classic style shooting, albeit with Service type firearms. It was at this point that I realised that even with all the griping, we really are very lucky here in the UK with the matches we shoot and all the fantastic ranges we have access to |
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I'm all for supporting this and would like to see it come to fruition but that course of fire does lack they dynamic shooting we are used to and may not attract a lot of interest
It seesm that we have the best facilties and are far more advanced in our courses of fire. Perhaps we could invite our Euro-chums over for a comp and let them experience our shooting. It may be something they enjoy and might lead to a shift towards more dynamic shooting on the continent. Just because we have a more dynamic course of fire doesn't mean that we can't share our shooting. If we invited them over to shoot our course of fire and they came along, it would only be fair to reciprocate and have a go at theirs. It may even influence them to adopt some more dynamic stages. |
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Hmm, not very dynamic ,as you say. However, there is a pistol element
I'd still be up for a jolly highly competitive match against our european chums. It will probably cost me both my testicles, but hey , they don't get out much anyway. 
Any issues with us using .223 /5.56 in France? |
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I think it could be good. Just because it's not as dynamic as we are used to doesn't mean it can't be fun, and it's always nice to meet new people. As ever, logistics and cost will determine participation.
For those who don't think it's challenging enough, then you should expect to win with ease............
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I think this highlights just how lucky we are to be able to enjoy our style of shooting over here, despite the restrictions.
All the more reason for everyone to participate & support our matches. I hope we can sort out some sort of euro comp Eta : page 2 is mine :-) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Not always. In fact I was free for a couple but waiting for arrival of my new toy. And as soon as I got it, I managed to get to the CSR championships.
What a load of old cobblers... What about the 3 NRA action weekends. How many do you miss due to prior engagements?? NONE - but thats because they are booked months in advance. How many of those ultra dynamic 12 club shoots do you miss through other commitments? This year, managed the first ten. Nov and Dec are looking tricky though.Again, they are booked 12 months in advance !! But whn it comes to the absolutely fabulous CSR matches? You always seem to find a stone in your shoe or some other lame excuse. You're almost as bad as the bloke with the owl....... Like I said, a bit of notice is all I need - I like shooting - if I can come, I will come. Now stop being so grumpy.
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I think this highlights just how lucky we are to be able to enjoy our style of shooting over here, despite the restrictions. All the more reason for everyone to participate & support our matches. I hope we can sort out some sort of euro comp Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Couldn't agree more. I've sent them an invite btw, to see how we do things |
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I think it could be good. Just because it's not as dynamic as we are used to doesn't mean it can't be fun, and it's always nice to meet new people. As ever, logistics and cost will determine participation. For those who don't think it's challenging enough, then you should expect to win with ease............ As you and Bogtrotter have seen some positive aspects in this, I've told them that not all here are detractors, so will fully expect you both to take part, along with Rarms and Fluffy Brian |
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I think it could be good. Just because it's not as dynamic as we are used to doesn't mean it can't be fun, and it's always nice to meet new people. As ever, logistics and cost will determine participation. For those who don't think it's challenging enough, then you should expect to win with ease............ As you and Bogtrotter have seen some positive aspects in this, I've told them that not all here are detractors, so will fully expect you both to take part, along with Rarms and Fluffy Brian Cool, are you going to sponsor us?..............................................
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Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off |
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Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Bollocks. I made it to Hungary for a few days of competition. I made it to Nuremberg for IWA. Given a bit of notice, I will make it to a Euro Shoot too. If you are so sure I wont turn up, you can safely offer me sponsorship knowing it wont be needed due to absence. Put your sponsorship where your mouth is
Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off In fact, if its after Feb 2011, I shall be out of my probationary period so a few days sick leave will be feasible. So, here is a challenge ( I know you like them ) - sponsor a few of your customers, enter a Team Bradley Arms and I will guarantee my attendance as long as its after 5th Feb 2011 Ball well and truely in your court. Hysterical Monkey Boy - care to join Team Bradley Arms for this event ??
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Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off Who pissed in your cornflakes? Where am I having a cheap crack? ....and I picked up on the 'once again' comment.......... |
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Quoted: Right here:Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off Who pissed in your cornflakes? Where am I having a cheap crack? ....and I picked up on the 'once again' comment.......... "Cool, are you going to sponsor us?.............................................. "Why do you think I would do that? and why even mention it? You would have absolutely no intention of going so why even suggest that I should sponsor you? This forum isn't about, not does it revolve around me. I just happen to be the moderator (if anyone else wants that job BTW, just speak up) and try to generate interest in the disciplines I shoot amongst other things. I also happen to build rifles that people seem to like, which I truly appreciate, and along the way have fun but there are certain aspects of all this that are wearing me down including comments like the above one. Why should I give anything else away or do more than I already am? I was merely trying to show what's going on with our colleagues across the channel and see if we had some common ground, it's not about me trying to sell my products abroad or anything else, it's just about shooting. Fuck this bollocks |
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Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off Who pissed in your cornflakes? Where am I having a cheap crack? ....and I picked up on the 'once again' comment.......... "Cool, are you going to sponsor us?.............................................. "
Why do you think I would do that? and why even mention it? You would have absolutely no intention of going so why even suggest that I should sponsor you? This forum isn't about, not does it revolve around me. I just happen to be the moderator (if anyone else wants that job BTW, just speak up) and try to generate interest in the disciplines I shoot amongst other things. I also happen to build rifles that people seem to like, which I truly appreciate, and along the way have fun but there are certain aspects of all this that are wearing me down including comments like the above one. Why should I give anything else away or do more than I already am? I was merely trying to show what's going on with our colleagues across the channel and see if we had some common ground, it's not about me trying to sell my products abroad or anything else, it's just about shooting. Fuck this bollocks Well I'm sorry if my simple, and apparently repetetively irritating, humour isn't up to the level of intellectually sophisticated banter you seek to perpetuate on the cyber brain trust that is Arfcom........ ....actually I'm not.................................. 
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Why would I do that? I will assume that you don't or never would have any intention of going. Am I correct? Why ? A competitor wearing your hoodie and using your rifle maybe ? Maybe even a "Team Bradley Arms" ? Because youd have no intention of going and this isn't about sponsorship but about Icarus once again having a cheap crack coz he has nothing better to do on his day off Who pissed in your cornflakes? Where am I having a cheap crack? ....and I picked up on the 'once again' comment.......... "Cool, are you going to sponsor us?.............................................. "
Why do you think I would do that? and why even mention it? You would have absolutely no intention of going so why even suggest that I should sponsor you? This forum isn't about, not does it revolve around me. I just happen to be the moderator (if anyone else wants that job BTW, just speak up) and try to generate interest in the disciplines I shoot amongst other things. I also happen to build rifles that people seem to like, which I truly appreciate, and along the way have fun but there are certain aspects of all this that are wearing me down including comments like the above one. Why should I give anything else away or do more than I already am? I was merely trying to show what's going on with our colleagues across the channel and see if we had some common ground, it's not about me trying to sell my products abroad or anything else, it's just about shooting. Fuck this bollocks Whoa there !! Biting is MY job around here. 
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Woo hoo handbags
Fluffy bunny mccannon I'm up for a euro road trip Good man yerself. I propose the Jeep rather than the Defender. I want to be able to hear when I get there. And some small degree of comfort would be nice.
Your multilingual skills will be welcome at the rasthoffs en route. |
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Woo hoo handbags
Fluffy bunny mccannon I'm up for a euro road trip Good man yerself. I propose the Jeep rather than the Defender. I want to be able to hear when I get there. And some small degree of comfort would be nice.
Your multilingual skills will be welcome at the rasthoffs en route. Your Jeep couldn't even make it up the M11, at least my defender has been to Austria, Hungary, Czech many times with no hiccup  
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There's no retarder on either a Jeep or a Land Rover, unless you consider the person behind the wheelWow........ this thread went full-retard quickly.
Soren Forgetting diesel certainly had a retarding effect on mine. 70mph ahem cough in 3rd lane M11, is a bad place to run out. The following few seconds of slalom course through the lorries to reach the hard shoulder was emotional.
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I found that sooooo funny whilst drinking my latte and being chatted up by girlies who were admiring Lumpy Meanwhile I was about to cause a security scare. Vehicle on hard shoulder not a million miles from Stanstead. For safety I decided to stand behind the armco barrier in the slight decline of the embankment while waiting for Blue Flag to arrive. It got a little chilly and wet so I decided to wrap up. So there I was semi concealed by bushes, donning my camo jacket and lacing up my boots when I looked up to see a Traffic car stopped 20 metres away with a very curious crew clearly considering an armed response for this apparent terrorist.
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