Posted: 11/5/2008 1:27:11 AM EDT
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I've decided to take the plunge and get a GSG5 - picking it up tomorrow.
Has anyone successfully moderated one of these? (and I don't mean the 6 ft long abortion that was posted by tigger some while ago). I was hoping for some sort of reflex type can that would screw on and reach back to the sight base or maybe just screw directly to the sight base. Any ideas or examples of what's been done so far? |
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I think there are barrel/minimum length issues when it comes to moderating the GSG......Streetfighter should be able to tell you more.
Tyga looked into it as well when he tried to sort sothing out for the one he looked at. He may be able to offer you some advice. The one Tyga did might have looked a bit odd but it may be the only way to do it legally if you desperately want to moderate it. |
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Yes I've seen a picture of a GSG5 in the UK with a custom DM80 over-barrel mod that looked ok. Theres a thread on airgunbbs on it,
http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291362&page=3 |
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I think there are barrel/minimum length issues when it comes to moderating the GSG......Streetfighter should be able to tell you more. Tyga looked into it as well when he tried to sort sothing out for the one he looked at. He may be able to offer you some advice. The one Tyga did might have looked a bit odd but it may be the only way to do it legally if you desperately want to moderate it. I must say I am surprised to have read about the importers stating its illegal to shorten the barrel of the GSG5. They state that with the shortened barrel, even with the fixed stock fitted ( thus within legal overall length ) one COULD fit a folding stock and it would then become illegal. Well, if this is the case, shortening a ruger 10/22 would be just as illegal because one CAN obtain a folding stock for same ? Yet I have seen a few 10/22s cut down to 12" barrel length on sale in dealers. Fitted with standard stocks they are sold as section 1 firearms. I look forward to some clarification on this. Because the GSG5 looks like a fun rifle to own and shoot. And I would only buy one if it was permissible to cut it down to 12" and fit a moderator. |
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10/22's aren't sold from new with folding stocks.
Apart from that, GSG5's are supplied as new, in the box, with the stock removed but fully useable. Therefore as they are supplied with no stock fitted they must be a min of 600mm OAL That's my take. So in that respect if the barrel was shortened the can would need to be permanently attached and could only be done by an RFD. Again, my opinion only |
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Hiya Nick
There is an adapter on the market that fits the thread in the front sight housing where the flash hider normally screws into, the other end of the adapter is 1/2" UNF and will take all moderators that have that thread. Just got back from another 12hour day and need to dusche before I'll be in a mood to do links. Or better still, next time you are in my neck of the wood's, pay me a visit and I'll show you mine. Tony |
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10/22's aren't sold from new with folding stocks. Apart from that, GSG5's are supplied as new, in the box, with the stock removed but fully useable. Therefore as they are supplied with no stock fitted they must be a min of 600mm OAL That's my take. So in that respect if the barrel was shortened the can would need to be permanently attached and could only be done by an RFD. Again, my opinion only Good point. Though I assume they are shipped to the dealer that way. And the dealer would assemble before selling ? As has been said - probably not good to be the test case ! |
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And there in lies the problem coz once you have done that then how would you get the stock off to allow for working parts dissassembly for cleaning etc   Actually, there isn't a problem with just the original screws. The Firearms Act specifies that the stock must be detachable. A number of legal eagles I have spoken with have expressed the opinion that that would mean without the applications of tools to remove said stock. The legislation is clearly aimed at push button type clip on stocks that were fitted to take down rifles, not ones fitted with a bunch of allen screws. AR15 carbines just need a c spanner to remove the stock and no one has gotten twisted out of shape in the decades they have ben on sale. There is a simple system people need to adopt when reading the firearms act… read what is actually written don't 'interpret' it on the basis of what if's. |
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BTW the front sight post retaining screw needs lock tite as it gets loose and the group wanders.
Oh I did a trigger job on my GSG5, it fell off the table at the range, no dramas or dents but the trigger is just better, (please don't try this at home and I will not be held responsible if you break your gat)  .
Other than that once you have it zeroed and have enough mags the only other trouble you'll have is ammo, it eats it as fast as you can buy it , and you have loads of fun.
@ Phil, I have an open invite to all members here, if you are in my neck of the wood's give me a shout and I'll take you to the range. Nick and one other member of the forum have done me the honour of being my guest. Tony |
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If you took off the stock and found some way of securing a rod (or something) to the receiver (ala LBR pistol grip senario) then you could take the barrel to 12" as long as the compensation is made at the rear.
The GSG stocks are hollow so a rod of some type will go inside the stock hiding it. Or am I way off base? |
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AR15 carbines just need a c spanner to remove the stock and no one has gotten twisted out of shape in the decades they have ben on sale. The rifle wouldn't work then so not part of this problem. Legally, the fact that the rifle could or could not work is moot, it would be under the legal minumum and unless it had been decativated would still be a 'firearm'. |
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If you took off the stock and found some way of securing a rod (or something) to the receiver (ala LBR pistol grip senario) then you could take the barrel to 12" as long as the compensation is made at the rear. The GSG stocks are hollow so a rod of some type will go inside the stock hiding it. Or am I way off base? Sounds OK to me. |
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If you took off the stock and found some way of securing a rod (or something) to the receiver (ala LBR pistol grip senario) then you could take the barrel to 12" as long as the compensation is made at the rear. The GSG stocks are hollow so a rod of some type will go inside the stock hiding it. Or am I way off base? Sounds OK to me. I think you could also fit a telescopic stock and weld/pin/bond, whatever permanent fixing is acceptable, the arms in such a position on the receiver rails that with a reduced barrel the overall length is compliant. For stripping/cleaning, the butt end of the stock would have to be disassembled. |
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If you took off the stock and found some way of securing a rod (or something) to the receiver (ala LBR pistol grip senario) then you could take the barrel to 12" as long as the compensation is made at the rear. The GSG stocks are hollow so a rod of some type will go inside the stock hiding it. Or am I way off base? Sounds OK to me. I think you could also fit a telescopic stock and weld/pin/bond, whatever permanent fixing is acceptable, the arms in such a position on the receiver rails that with a reduced barrel the overall length is compliant. For stripping/cleaning, the butt end of the stock would have to be disassembled. I seem to remember that the GSG-5 receiver is a "clam shell" design. Not sure that theres anything substantial to attach a rod to. Anyone got pics of the rear end ? 
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AR15 carbines just need a c spanner to remove the stock and no one has gotten twisted out of shape in the decades they have ben on sale. The rifle wouldn't work then so not part of this problem. Legally, the fact that the rifle could or could not work is moot, it would be under the legal minumum and unless it had been decativated would still be a 'firearm'. This has nothing to do with it. It is not a firearm unless it is complete or you can use it in it's shortened state, it will be a component. It doesn't matter if you use a c-spanner, screwdriver or allen key to remove the stock or barrel or any other part. If your argument was true then all rifles would be illegal if, as soon as you took the stock off, it would be under the 24" limit. A short barrelled 10/22 doesn't become illegal as soon as you remove the stock to strip and clean it, or for any other reason, unless you try and use it at this reduced length. Just don't ever take both pins out on your AR or you'll have 2 short firearms and be doubly illegal. Or all you FAC holders could send your firearms to us RFDs so we could strip and clean them and not have to put you in the position of having to handle an illegal short firearm. I don't mind, I could give up the day job. 
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AR15 carbines just need a c spanner to remove the stock and no one has gotten twisted out of shape in the decades they have ben on sale. The rifle wouldn't work then so not part of this problem. Legally, the fact that the rifle could or could not work is moot, it would be under the legal minumum and unless it had been decativated would still be a 'firearm'. This has nothing to do with it. It is not a firearm unless it is complete or you can use it in it's shortened state, it will be a component. It doesn't matter if you use a c-spanner, screwdriver or allen key to remove the stock or barrel or any other part. If your argument was true then all rifles would be illegal if, as soon as you took the stock off, it would be under the 24" limit. A short barrelled 10/22 doesn't become illegal as soon as you remove the stock to strip and clean it, or for any other reason, unless you try and use it at this reduced length. Just don't ever take both pins out on your AR or you'll have 2 short firearms and be doubly illegal. Or all you FAC holders could send your firearms to us RFDs so we could strip and clean them and not have to put you in the position of having to handle an illegal short firearm. I don't mind, I could give up the day job. So, if the standard stock is fixed to the receiver of the GSG5 with bolts so not readily removeable - its ok to have the barrel at 12" ? Does that mean the importers were wrong ? And the magazine articles that also warned against cutting the barrel down ? Must agree, what you say makes sense. |
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Originally Posted By Scope-
Or all you FAC holders could send your firearms to us RFDs so we could strip and clean them and not have to put you in the position of having to handle an illegal short firearm. I don't mind, I could give up the day job. Mmmmm ££££££££££££££ Ka-ching 
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If there was as much issue with the potential to make an 'illegal' GSG5 as some people seem to be saying, along with all the 'Oh teh drama' comments on cutting down barrels in magazine reviews, how come our beloved Home Sec has not declared the bloody things 'especially dangerous' and banned them. |
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If there was as much issue with the potential to make an 'illegal' GSG5 as some people seem to be saying, along with all the 'Oh teh drama' comments on cutting down barrels in magazine reviews, how come our beloved Home Sec has not declared the bloody things 'especially dangerous' and banned them. You've just turned your argument around 180' and are now arguing my point. Or did I miss something? The magazines and importers are often not the best informed when it comes to the minutiae of the law. A manufacturer in the SW (no names, no pack drill - those that know, know) often tell us smaller importers/builders that the receivers we bring in are illegal, just because the serial numbers aren't on some list, or they were originally destined for rifles that would (oh, my god) self-load. They were exactly the same as his original receivers. A dealer/manufactuerer nearer london has also given duff advice and quite frankly made one shooter so close to illegal that it's scary. We sorted it out and things never got too far out of hand, but it would have had dire consequences for us all. |
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My opinion on GSG5's is that they will become section 5 if the barrel is shortened, without adding a bar on the receiver.
I believe the definition of detachable stocks was debated in the LBR test case a few years ago. The outcome was that a stock is detachable ONLY IF if is reattachable in the same way - therefore the wristbraces were not detachable, since if you hacksaw it off, you cannot reattach it. But the GSG5 stock is classed a detachable. They come without stocks on, so this cannot be counted in the overall length. |
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My opinion on GSG5's is that they will become section 5 if the barrel is shortened, without adding a bar on the receiver. I believe the definition of detachable stocks was debated in the LBR test case a few years ago. The outcome was that a stock is detachable ONLY IF if is reattachable in the same way - therefore the wristbraces were not detachable, since if you hacksaw it off, you cannot reattach it. But the GSG5 stock is classed a detachable. They come without stocks on, so this cannot be counted in the overall length. What would be your opinion of a Ruger 10/22, 12" barrel fitted with a butler creek folding stock ? |
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My opinion on GSG5's is that they will become section 5 if the barrel is shortened, without adding a bar on the receiver. I believe the definition of detachable stocks was debated in the LBR test case a few years ago. The outcome was that a stock is detachable ONLY IF if is reattachable in the same way - therefore the wristbraces were not detachable, since if you hacksaw it off, you cannot reattach it. But the GSG5 stock is classed a detachable. They come without stocks on, so this cannot be counted in the overall length. What would be your opinion of a Ruger 10/22, 12" barrel fitted with a butler creek folding stock ? SECTION 5 PLAIN AND SIMPLE You have a minimum barrel length and/or minimum overall length and if your 10/22 (and we wont go there will we) has a 12" barrel it can't have the folding stock because it will not meet the overall length. Whats the fascination with short barrels? I got a pistol which is sec 5 and I must say, I don't get excited by it
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My opinion on GSG5's is that they will become section 5 if the barrel is shortened, without adding a bar on the receiver. I believe the definition of detachable stocks was debated in the LBR test case a few years ago. The outcome was that a stock is detachable ONLY IF if is reattachable in the same way - therefore the wristbraces were not detachable, since if you hacksaw it off, you cannot reattach it. But the GSG5 stock is classed a detachable. They come without stocks on, so this cannot be counted in the overall length. What would be your opinion of a Ruger 10/22, 12" barrel fitted with a butler creek folding stock ? I believe there's case law on folding stocks - Section 5. But what if you take your full length stock off and then re-attach it like Tyga says? Oops, Section 5? I think not. How is the GSG's stock attached? |
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Gosh - I only wondered about how to moderate it!
The whole thing seems a little confused, as all rifle stocks are detachable with tools. It would appear that it's about the overall length when configured for use, and whilst almost rifles would function without the stock, they are not designed to work without it. It's clear that any rifle with a folding stock and an overall length of less than 600mm would rightly be section 5, but a rifle with a fixed stock and overall length longer than 600mm is simply that, a rifle that is longer than 600 mm. Just because it could be fitted with a folder won't make it any shorter until said folder is actually fitted. A Remington 870 shotgun with a 24inch barrel could be fitted with a folding stock and would then be illegal, but if it's fitted with a fixed stock, it's legal. Just because it could be fitted with a folding stock doesn't render all Rem 870's section 5 until there's a big bar welded on the receiver - unless I've missed something and they all have a big bar welded on and no-one has noticed... Suffice it say, mine is as standard with the stock firmly fixed. I'll be getting in touch with the guy who did the GSG on the airgun BBS and I'll post some pics when (if) I get it done. In the meantime any ideas will be welcome. |
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My opinion on GSG5's is that they will become section 5 if the barrel is shortened, without adding a bar on the receiver. I believe the definition of detachable stocks was debated in the LBR test case a few years ago. The outcome was that a stock is detachable ONLY IF if is reattachable in the same way - therefore the wristbraces were not detachable, since if you hacksaw it off, you cannot reattach it. But the GSG5 stock is classed a detachable. They come without stocks on, so this cannot be counted in the overall length. What would be your opinion of a Ruger 10/22, 12" barrel fitted with a butler creek folding stock ? SECTION 5 PLAIN AND SIMPLE You have a minimum barrel length and/or minimum overall length and if your 10/22 (and we wont go there will we) has a 12" barrel it can't have the folding stock because it will not meet the overall length. Whats the fascination with short barrels? I think for many buyers of this model - they are buying it because it looks like the full bore version. And I guess with a shorter barrel it would look more like that ? I got a pistol which is sec 5 and I must say, I don't get excited by it Sorry, I meant a Ruger 12" with standard stock fitted ! And what about a AR15 type rifle with 12" barrel and standard A2 type stock ? This subject interests me as I dont have a .22 but have a slot for one. Was considering an AR15 type with 12" barrel. But then the stock is just as removeable as the stock is on the GSG5. And like the GSG5, the AR also has a pistol grip so it could be said that it can be fired without the stock ( i believe the .22 one has no spring / buffer tube ? ) |
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I've decided to take the plunge and get a GSG5 - picking it up tomorrow. Has anyone successfully moderated one of these? (and I don't mean the 6 ft long abortion that was posted by tigger some while ago). I was hoping for some sort of reflex type can that would screw on and reach back to the sight base or maybe just screw directly to the sight base. Any ideas or examples of what's been done so far? Funily enough I had a demo of a GSG this morning with an over barrel mod attached, very very quiet. I'll get the details for you if you like. If i recall rightly they said it retails at about £120. |
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I've decided to take the plunge and get a GSG5 - picking it up tomorrow. Has anyone successfully moderated one of these? (and I don't mean the 6 ft long abortion that was posted by tigger some while ago). I was hoping for some sort of reflex type can that would screw on and reach back to the sight base or maybe just screw directly to the sight base. Any ideas or examples of what's been done so far? Funily enough I had a demo of a GSG this morning with an over barrel mod attached, very very quiet. I'll get the details for you if you like. If i recall rightly they said it retails at about £120. very interested - please IM me or preferably post so that everyone can see. Cheers Nick |
If your going to shorten a GSG-5, don't do it in moderation…. 
Apparently, they now have a Kalashnikov in production… http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/10/16/gsg-22-kalashnikov-ak/ |