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Posted: 1/5/2006 6:26:20 AM EDT
What is the general opinion regarding the second amendment in the UK? Does it come up in discussions with your shooting mates?

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:02:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:09:50 AM EDT
only in envy,

James
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:17:32 AM EDT
The second what?

We may have become citizen's but they never gave us anything like a constitution as part of the deal.

Tony
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:39:35 PM EDT
I can honestly say that it doesnt get discussed at all at my club.

Cheers
Steven
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:43:13 PM EDT
Did I see a map somewhere on the forum that showed the states that the second ammendment had been steamrollered over to outlaw possession of firearms? How many states are they outlawed in?

I'm interested, because I'm planning a visit for the end of this year!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:43:46 PM EDT
Question is can the second amendment be amended???
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bunnyassassin:
Did I see a map somewhere on the forum that showed the states that the second ammendment had been steamrollered over to outlaw possession of firearms? How many states are they outlawed in?

I'm interested, because I'm planning a visit for the end of this year!



Some states require registration for some specific type of firearms. But banning firearms in general? no,every state allows atleast some firearm ownership. Even in California you can own rifles and handguns and even grandfathered assault rifles(provided they are registered).

Southern states, and western states(except Calif, don't know about Oregon or Washington) are good pro-gun states. Alaska is probably the most progun of all. You can openly carry there without a permit, just like in the old west!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:21:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattyUK:
Question is can the second amendment be amended???



Yes, but to add, change or repeal an amendment will require that it be ratified by 3/4 of the states(37 states?). This is called a Contstitutional Convention.


Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:19:46 PM EDT
Unlikely then? Are things becoming more relaxed over the pond then? I mean in general? Magazine capacity has always seemed to be a bit of a weird way of restricting gun owners.

To me at least?

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 4:33:38 PM EDT by Muddy]
Actually, I believe it would take 38 states to ratify any new amendments and that's after it would pass the U.S. House and Senate by 2/3 votes. A constitutional convention is something completely different and lets hope we never have one in our lifetime unless it's after we've had a leftist purge. Having said that, the left here will just do an end run buy using the executive branch to enforce the laws they like and ignore the ones they don't and their activist judiciary to find those actions (or lack of) consitutional.

As a general list of states to avoid for shooting puroses:

Massachusetts
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
California
Hawaii

I may be leaving one out off the top of my head but those are the states I can think of that have a patchwork of laws either severely restricting the number of gun stores and one's ability to get a federal firearms license, handgun registration & approval rosters (if it isn't on the roster it can't be sold), semi-auto rifle bans, and magazine bans on magazines over 10 rounds. In probably all of them except NY and MA you can go and rent a pistol at any range so all in all not too bad but don't expect to find too many outdoor ranges on par with the great facilities you guys appear to have on that side of the pond. Outdoor ranges are disappearing here faster than dinosaurs after a meteor crash due to encroachment by busy-body yuppies and soccer moms and the worthless politicians that cater to them.

The only places where handguns are defacto outlawed is in a handful of crappy cities throughout varouis states and it's largely ineffective as well as ignored. Chicago (and some of its suburbs) as well as Washington D.C. come to mind. Other than that you can pretty much own a handgun and store it in your home even in any of the above states I listed, it may just cost you more in time, money, and hassle to get it.

Speaking of handguns, I noticed one of the links somebody posted had a dealer selling an Argentine Ballester Molina under Section 7.3; would a Colt 1911A1 made in 1928 qualify under the same? Can guns that qualify under 7.3 still be imported? Just curious.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 5:45:51 AM EDT by Mousegunner-UK]

Speaking of handguns, I noticed one of the links somebody posted had a dealer selling an Argentine Ballester Molina under Section 7.3; would a Colt 1911A1 made in 1928 qualify under the same? Can guns that qualify under 7.3 still be imported? Just curious.



No unfortunately the above gun (colt 1911A1) would not pass for a section 7.3.

To Qualify the gun has to have been made before 1919.

There is I believe a loophole in the law that allows you to have as a section 7.3 gun with historic interest post 1919, but you had to own the gun at the time of the pistol ban.

For historic interest read serial no 1 of any pre WW2 pistol, and theres not many of those around, and chances are if you had one at the time of the ban then you probably handed the pistols in prior to the above loophole being found.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:54:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Muddy:
Actually, I believe it would take 38 states to ratify any new amendments and that's after it would pass the U.S. House and Senate by 2/3 votes. A constitutional convention is something completely different and lets hope we never have one in our lifetime unless it's after we've had a leftist purge. Having said that, the left here will just do an end run buy using the executive branch to enforce the laws they like and ignore the ones they don't and their activist judiciary to find those actions (or lack of) consitutional.

As a general list of states to avoid for shooting puroses:

Massachusetts
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
California
Hawaii

I may be leaving one out off the top of my head but those are the states I can think of that have a patchwork of laws either severely restricting the number of gun stores and one's ability to get a federal firearms license, handgun registration & approval rosters (if it isn't on the roster it can't be sold), semi-auto rifle bans, and magazine bans on magazines over 10 rounds. In probably all of them except NY and MA you can go and rent a pistol at any range so all in all not too bad but don't expect to find too many outdoor ranges on par with the great facilities you guys appear to have on that side of the pond. Outdoor ranges are disappearing here faster than dinosaurs after a meteor crash due to encroachment by busy-body yuppies and soccer moms and the worthless politicians that cater to them.

The only places where handguns are defacto outlawed is in a handful of crappy cities throughout varouis states and it's largely ineffective as well as ignored. Chicago (and some of its suburbs) as well as Washington D.C. come to mind. Other than that you can pretty much own a handgun and store it in your home even in any of the above states I listed, it may just cost you more in time, money, and hassle to get it.

Speaking of handguns, I noticed one of the links somebody posted had a dealer selling an Argentine Ballester Molina under Section 7.3; would a Colt 1911A1 made in 1928 qualify under the same? Can guns that qualify under 7.3 still be imported? Just curious.



It's been more than just a few years since my last Civics class. So then what is a Constitutional Convention?

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:26:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 12:21:58 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:34:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Joaquin:

It's been more than just a few years since my last Civics class. So then what is a Constitutional Convention?




A Constitutional Convention allows us to either bypass congress for passing Amdendments or allows us to make an entirly new Constitution.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:24:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Joaquin:

Originally Posted By Bunnyassassin:
Did I see a map somewhere on the forum that showed the states that the second ammendment had been steamrollered over to outlaw possession of firearms? How many states are they outlawed in?

I'm interested, because I'm planning a visit for the end of this year!



Some states require registration for some specific type of firearms. But banning firearms in general? no,every state allows atleast some firearm ownership. Even in California you can own rifles and handguns and even grandfathered assault rifles(provided they are registered).

Southern states, and western states(except Calif, don't know about Oregon or Washington) are good pro-gun states. Alaska is probably the most progun of all. You can openly concealed carry there without a permit, just like in the old west!



here in AZ we have always had un-restricted open carry.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:54:10 PM EDT
Does that cover foreign visitors?

just curious

Taffy
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:58:24 PM EDT
Taffy,

Actually AZ's open carry law, which is written into their state constitution does cover all persons in AZ, including non-residents, eligible to lawfully posses a firearm so yes, it would cover you (as it should). The only caveat I'd throw in is the Federal post 9-11 bullshit about restricting firearms being imported for a "vailid reason" of which they insist on a hunting license of some sort as one of those. Mind you, it doesn't say you actually have to be hunting but in order to actually bring in your own weapon without actually being on the roster for some competitive shooting event, that is probably the easiest bypass.

I have an AZ non-resident carry permit and got it some time back when not as many states accepted the Florida permit. Anyway, it was not at all uncommon to see openly exposed weapons being carried. My friend I took the class with walked into a Walmart there strapped with a Glock 21 and nobody so much as even flinched. For them it's totally cultural.

There are several states that will issue concealed weapons (AKA carry permits) to foreigners but I don't know which ones and if that's changed post 9-11. You might want to have a look at www.packing.org as they are pretty much the internet repository for all things regarding carrying a weapon in the United States.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:32:01 AM EDT
Almost anything goes in Ohio. Except in a few places.

*Toledo has a mag capacity limit of 10 rounds.
*Columbus (state capital) just passed an AWB, for the city.
*Max mag capacity throughout the state is 30 rounds. Rightttt
*Open carry is an iffy issue. I'll leave it to someone who is up to date w/ current info to explain.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:20:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattyUK:
Question is can the second amendment be amended???



Any part of the Constitution can theoretically be amended.

It should be understood that the Bill of Rights does not issue/license/allow/approve any right.
It was merely an agreement that these rights existed.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms exists independetly of any government or government document.

As a practical matter; historical near 50/50 politcal divide in US makes it very unlikely in any forseeable future since the super-majorities required at all levels to change the Constitution.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:41:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
Does that cover foreign visitors?

just curious

Taffy



under state law you would be OK, however federal law might restrict the right of "non-resident" aliens to carry. So if you got stopped by the AZ cops you'd be OK but the feds might bust you. the likelyhood of you running into feds anywhere but on the border with CA or mehico is very remote.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:51:24 AM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 2:17:16 PM EDT by Fourays2]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
Does that cover foreign visitors?

just curious

Taffy



under state law you would be OK, however federal law might restrict the right of "non-resident" aliens to carry. So if you got stopped by the AZ cops you'd be OK but the feds might bust you. the likelyhood of you running into feds anywhere but on the border with CA or mehico is very remote.



Fixed it for you.



thanks, I don't know how that one slipped by me
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