Posted: 8/14/2009 5:57:45 AM EDT
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This was recently brought up again in the Pit thread. This is the question.
Can you legally transport a long gun not covered by a CPL, in a vehicle, w/ its loaded magazine(s), if the firearm is unloaded in chamber and magazine(s) detached? This is what I have found. 324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon vehicle; transporting bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm.
Sec. 40111. …………. (2) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not transport or have in possession a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat. 324.43513 Carrying, transporting, or possessing firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow; hunting license not required; carrying or possessing unloaded weapon. Sec. 43513. (1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle. A person may carry, transport, or possess a slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow without a hunting license if the slingshot, bow, or crossbow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle. I also found this on the MI DNR website. How do I transport weapon and ammunition?
Question –––– 11/13/2002 03:36 AM ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- I am a bit of an oldtimer I guess. It seems I have always remembered the laws being (in regard to transporting firearms and ammunition) that firearms must be transported in the trunk of your vehicle, in a gun case or wrapped/covered, while the ammunition was to be transported in a separate part of your vehicle, such as the back/front seat, glove compartment, or something to that affect. I am in debate with wife and son over that question. They are saying that ammunition may be transported inside the gun case along with the firearm. Not loaded in the firearm of course but, in its box/container, inside the gun case, right next to the firearm itself. Is that true? Answer I am afraid you lost a bet. Yes, ammunition may be carried in the case along with the firearm and does not need to be separated or transported in a different area of the vehicle. As you indicated the firearm must be completely unloaded and in a case or completely unloaded and in the trunk. Somewhat related to your inquiry, the Office of Attorney General was asked about the legality of transporting a loaded magazine removed from the firearm in an enclosed case. They opined that a person need not unload the magazine for legal transport provided the firearm itself is unloaded in the barrel and the magazine is removed. I have been unable to find an AG Opinion that covers this, though. Maybe it was not a “formal” opinion. ETA info per G-lock 750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following: (a) Taken down. (b) Enclosed in a case. (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle. (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle. (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both. |
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The disconnect has always been the difference in the statue and the DNR section. Under the statue, loaded mags seperate from weapon were good to go per MSP, under the DNR section the magazine may be required to be unloaded.
Here is the wording from the MSP Legal Update Transporting ammunition and long-guns MCL 750.227d describes the lawful way to transport a shotgun or rifle. While they must be unloaded, they may be transported in the same case as ammunition (including loaded magazines). http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._66_238184_7.pdf As far as I know, it has never been addressed by the AG, the Courts or the Legislature to solve the the differences in the law. When I was a LEO, I subscribed to MSP's interpetation, but DNR may/will follow what they percieve as their law and may hook you up for loaded mags at their ranges or on public hunting lands. As for driving to a private range or elsewhere, I'd not worry, but at the Pit or other DNR area's I would load when I get there, unless the weapon falls under the MI pistol rules. As always YMMV and you can choose to be a test case and maybe it will get worked out. I'm gonna go better safe than sorry. Jeff |
| Not that info the DNR provides through their website means anything when a DNR officer is about to screw you over, but notice the Q&A I pulled directly from their website. It specifically mentions that the DNR contacted the AG's office and that the AG's office "opined" that mags could be loaded as long as removed from the firearm. |
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If you are being investigated / stopped by a Michigan Conservation Officer the interpretation of any applicable law will vary from officer to officer based upon their mood, memory, moon phase, the current prime rate, and the ambient air temperature.
However, it will always result in you being in violation. They don't know the law, they know what they are told. Modus Operandi is to write a cite, let the court sort it out. Everyone everywhere is suspected of wanting to shoot deer out of their vehicle during the closed season....why else would anyone have a firearm in their vehicle. |
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Quoted:
If you are being investigated / stopped by a Michigan Conservation Officer the interpretation of any applicable law will vary from officer to officer based upon their mood, memory, moon phase, the current prime rate, and the ambient air temperature. However, it will always result in you being in violation. They don't know the law, they know what they are told. Modus Operandi is to write a cite, let the court sort it out. Everyone everywhere is suspected of wanting to shoot deer out of their vehicle during the closed season....why else would anyone have a firearm in their vehicle. That's kinda what I was trying to say. You may beat the rap, but not the ride. Jeff |
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Quoted:
If you are being investigated / stopped by a Michigan Conservation Officer the interpretation of any applicable law will vary from officer to officer based upon their mood, memory, moon phase, the current prime rate, and the ambient air temperature. However, it will always result in you being in violation. They don't know the law, they know what they are told. Modus Operandi is to write a cite, let the court sort it out. Everyone everywhere is suspected of wanting to shoot deer out of their vehicle during the closed season....why else would anyone have a firearm in their vehicle. Well said. I'm guessing you've had to deal with those nazi's too. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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The "magazine" thing depends on if you're referring to an integral magazine such as on a Winchester 94 rifle, Remington 870 shotgun, Remington 700 rifle, and the like, as opposed to a detachable box magazine such as an HK 91, for example.
Integral mag - no ammo when transported; box mag out of the gun - okay to have ammo in the mag, mag in the gun - no ammo when transported; no ammo in chamber in either type of gun. Of course when flying, the rules are whatever the particular airline and TSA say. That's my understanding - I could be wrong. Not legal advice, MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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Quoted:
The disconnect has always been the difference in the statue and the DNR section. Under the statue, loaded mags seperate from weapon were good to go per MSP, under the DNR section the magazine may be required to be unloaded. Here is the wording from the MSP Legal Update Transporting ammunition and long-guns MCL 750.227d describes the lawful way to transport a shotgun or rifle. While they must be unloaded, they may be transported in the same case as ammunition (including loaded magazines). http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._66_238184_7.pdf As far as I know, it has never been addressed by the AG, the Courts or the Legislature to solve the the differences in the law. When I was a LEO, I subscribed to MSP's interpetation, but DNR may/will follow what they percieve as their law and may hook you up for loaded mags at their ranges or on public hunting lands. As for driving to a private range or elsewhere, I'd not worry, but at the Pit or other DNR area's I would load when I get there, unless the weapon falls under the MI pistol rules. As always YMMV and you can choose to be a test case and maybe it will get worked out. I'm gonna go better safe than sorry. Jeff Thanks for the link. In my opinion, that makes it crystal clear. I've printed out that page, the law it cites, and I've also printed out the DNR FAQ page that also gives a thumbs up. Those pages will accompany any loaded rifle mags I transport. My friends and I are doing a shooting day up north soon, so pre-loading upwards of two dozen hi-cap mags will save a ton of time and space. |