Posted: 7/21/2009 5:37:28 AM EDT
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I was wondering if anyone had information about going from conceald carry to open carry. What I mean is, I carry concealed in a small of back IWB holster under my shirt(s) or if my shirt is tucked in under a jacket/hoodie. If I was to uncover my pistol, say taking off my jacket with the other shirt tucked in and pistol on outside of shirt, would that be open carry or does it specifically have to be on your hip in a holster outside of the pant? I know having a pistol in the back uncovered where you can't see it doesn't sound like the best idea, but it is more of a hypothetical, just in case, and goes for if you have any other sort of concealment holster as well. Thanks |
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Once you have a CCW, you can no longer open carry (except if hunting, target shooting, etc.). You are bound by the CCW limitations and law. Once you have a CCW you can't own guns :P If you have a CPL you can Conceal Carry OR Open Carry OR anything in between. Recieving your CPL does NOT remove your right to OC! |
| I must have been told wrong at my class then. The person teaching the class informed us that once you have your 'license', your pistol needs to be concealed properly and the law gets sketchy for hunting with a handgun, open carry, etc. I was told if you don't properly conceal and are caught\noticed, you can cause a whole shit storm - including a revoked license. |
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I must have been told wrong at my class then. The person teaching the class informed us that once you have your 'license', your pistol needs to be concealed properly and the law gets sketchy for hunting with a handgun, open carry, etc. I was told if you don't properly conceal and are caught\noticed, you can cause a whole shit storm - including a revoked license. I honestly don't know how much of a problem 'printing' could cause. I'm curious to find out. I DO know that plenty of bad 'facts' are given out in the classes. My wife, for example, was taught that open carry is absolutely ILLEGAL in MI. |
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Once you have a CCW, you can no longer open carry (except if hunting, target shooting, etc.). You are bound by the CCW limitations and law.   to CCW????
When carrying concealed, you must "conceal the weapon". While camping, hunting, hanging at home, walking around the woods, playing Army, whatever you can open carry. However, if you are going to town to get milk or shopping or getting a bite to eat t Bob Evans, you MUST CONCEAL!!! There is a little clause called "accidental brandishing" but what you are describing is clearly & simple "brandishing". Pathfinder |
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Once you have a CCW, you can no longer open carry (except if hunting, target shooting, etc.). You are bound by the CCW limitations and law. When carrying concealed, you must "conceal the weapon". While camping, hunting, hanging at home, walking around the woods, playing Army, whatever you can open carry. However, if you are going to town to get milk or shopping or getting a bite to eat t Bob Evans, you MUST CONCEAL!!! There is a little clause called "accidental brandishing" but what you are describing is clearly & simple "brandishing". Pathfinder Yes - read my posts again - this is what I was trying to convey, albeit poorly. |
I can see this thread has the potential to get ugly so I am going to ask that y'all play nice.  From my understanding of the law (Someone correct me with proper links to the law if I am wrong), You have a CPL so you can carry concealed. Open carry is not illegal. Half way between the two is still going to put you in one category or the other, either one legal. Where's the problem? |
| I called the MSP with a similar question. What if,while legally carrying concealed (CPL), a shirt or jacket opened and showed the concealed weapon. The woman I spoke to works in the Firearms/Records dept of the MSP. Her immediate answer was that "..Michigan is an open carry state." and it would not be in violation. My concern is primarily during the summer months when wearing a light shirt/shorts,etc. Maybe on thin ice here, but doesn't 'brandishing' require some type of overt or threatening action on the part of the person carrying concealed? While 'walking in the woods or hunting' I believe open carry is the rule. Exception, of course, is having a valid cpl. No need for a hunting license if not attempting to take game. |
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Ok, let me put this a simply as possible...
In MI, if you are carrying concealed & have a valid CCW, your gun must be concealed. There is also that little clause called "accidental brandishing", meaning: If you are at the store & are carrying concealed & you reach up on a high shelf & "inadvertantly" expose any portion or the whole of your weapon, you are "safe" (so to speak) Brandishing is described as: allowing view of a weapon to any persons in a threatening manner. BUT to wear one on your hip & not even geture towards it can be considered "threatening" by the uneducated & can land you face first in the dirt & ass down in the back of a car with all sorts of cool lights, gadgets & gizmos. Now, on to "printing"... This is where it gets grey... Wearing a shirt untucked over a weapon to conceal its visibility IS completely legal. However, if said shirt shows a print of a weapon (protrution), then you could, COULD find yourself having to do some explaining to the local Gestapo. BUT, that is about it... I personally have never had to explain that happening & it happens alot with me (a pair of shorts, IWB with shirt untucked & draped over said firearm.). In your pants with the handle sticking out is not concealed. This is known as "homie carry", and you could shoot your dick off. There is no such thing as "open carry" in MI, otherwise, why get the CCW permit. I can NOT walk down the street where ever I want with a gun "showing". If you try you will more than likely eat gravel, get your clothes dirty & get a new pair of bracelts. You can only carry open while camping & hunting. Just like before you got your CCW. But at night, you DO NOT need to put it away & you CAN carry a flashlight with a weapon. Hope this helped someone. Pathfinder |
| According to MCRGO website under FAQs "..since there is no law that forbids it the open carry of a pistol or other firearm, without unlawful intent and without brandishing, outside a vehicle is legal." I agree that getting a cpl is the only way to go. However, Michigan is an open carry state. |
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Ok, let me put this a simply as possible... This was ALL false info, sorry. Hope this helped someone. Pathfinder I'm sorry Pathfinder but everything you just said is directly opposite. I can even prove it to you if you like. What city do you live in? If it's not too far, I'll come there and Open carry down the sidewalk in front of the local police station to prove it to you. Or you can call Sgt. Thomas Deasy of the Michigan State Police Legal Resource Division @ 517-336-6441 Really, I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ at all but you're just plain wrong and I want you to be more knowledgeable so you can spread correct info from now on. I'm not sure where you got all that bad info but like I said, call the Sgt and he can set you straight. |
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Ok, let me put this a simply as possible... I There is no such thing as "open carry" in MI, otherwise, why get the CCW permit. I can NOT walk down the street where ever I want with a gun "showing". If you try you will more than likely eat gravel, get your clothes dirty & get a new pair of bracelts. You can only carry open while camping & hunting. Just like before you got your CCW. But at night, you DO NOT need to put it away & you CAN carry a flashlight with a weapon. Pathfinder Not so. There is no "enforceable" law against open carry in the State of Michigan. Check out the suit filed against the City of Grand Haven just a couple of months back and the details. The reason why get a CPL is convenience for those OC folks (I am not one of them). If you OC, the moment you get into your car it is considered concealed. So then you can't wear it in a holster and have to abide by the transport laws. And the only reason you will eat gravel is because of leo's not fully understanding the laws (see first paragraph). |
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Pathfinder1,
Here are 3 good links for you to look over. The first is a link to the Michigan section of Open Carry dot org http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/ And this one is for 119 PAGES of Open Carry experiences in Michigan. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/11799.html And here is one that if you study it will help you in the future when posting about what is and isn't legal with respect to openly carrying a firearm in Michigan. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html If I can assist you any further please don't hesitate to ask. |
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Quoted: There is no such thing as "open carry" in MI, otherwise, why get the CCW permit. I can NOT walk down the street where ever I want with a gun "showing". I hope you mean that "while it is legal, its not always a good idea because people are ignorant and you will probably be harassed/questioned by 5.0" when you say you can't walk down the street where ever you want with a gun showing and not " it is illegal to walk down the street where ever I want with a gun showing" otherwise you might want to clue yourself in on Michigan's laws before you give people false information. See the links above. |
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WOW!! Thanks guys/gals, you gave me some info that I did not know "entirely"... Some I knew but was at ends while deicphering the laws. I hate reading laws that are not in "laymans terms"- makes it more confusing to understand fully.
BUT, you can NOT say I was entirely wrong. 'Alot" of what I said was infact true & the links showed me that as well. Maybe not defined well, but still true. Thanks again! Pathfinder Oh, by the way, you can still potentially shoot your dick off when HC ("homie carry") 
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WOW!! Thanks guys/gals, you gave me some a shit ton of info that I did not know "entirely" at all... Some I knew but was at ends while deicphering the laws. I hate reading laws that are not in "laymans terms"- makes it more confusing to understand fully. BUT, you can NOT say I was entirely wrong. 'Alot" of what I said was infact true & the links showed me that as well. Maybe not defined well, but still true. Barely anything you said was true and I'll go over it line by line seeing that you still think you know it all when in fact you know very little, sorry about that. Oh and I'll even use "layman's terms". Thanks again! Your welcome Pathfinder Oh, by the way, you can still potentially shoot your dick off when HC ("homie carry") The only people I know that "homie carry" are homie's and we don't care if they shoot their dicks off now do we?....and I guess you could call IWB a from of homie carry and you said yourself that you carry IWB so be careful would you. Quoted:
Ok, let me put this a simply as possible... All you did here in this post is muddy the waters for those that are trying to learn, smell what I'm stepping in? In MI, if you are carrying concealed & have a valid CCW, your gun must be concealed. Here not only were you totally wrong but also are perpetuating the ignorance by calling a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) a CCW which is a felony charge in Michigan of Carrying a Concealed Weapon. There is also that little clause called "accidental brandishing", meaning: If you are at the store & are carrying concealed & you reach up on a high shelf & "inadvertantly" expose any portion or the whole of your weapon, you are "safe" (so to speak) In Michigan, there is NO LITTLE CLAUSE called "accidental brandishing". Where did you pull this one out of? So to speak? No, you are ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! Brandishing is described as: allowing view of a weapon to any persons in a threatening manner. BUT to wear one on your hip & not even geture towards it can be considered "threatening" by the uneducated & can land you face first in the dirt & ass down in the back of a car with all sorts of cool lights, gadgets & gizmos."Discribed as", What the hell does that mean? The proper term is DEFINED AS. It's also not considered but rather the "uneducated" (wrong here too, it should read libtard gun grabber) may FEEL threatened but RIGHTS trump feelings in America! Now, on to "printing"... This is where it gets grey... Printing is not a gray area, it's simple a term use by us to describe when a gun or other weapon can be distinguished even though it's covered with a form of cloth. Wearing a shirt untucked over a weapon to conceal its visibility IS completely legal. It's not "completely" legal, it's restricted to only those in law enforcement and those that have CPL's However, if said shirt shows a print of a weapon (protrution), then you could, COULD find yourself having to do some explaining to the local Gestapo. If my gun prints and the "gestapo" feel the need to give me a hard time, I DO NOT and will not explain anything to them BUT, that is about it... I personally have never had to explain that happening & it happens alot with me (a pair of shorts, IWB with shirt untucked & draped over said firearm.). You may not be wrong here but without pictures we can't tell if you violated any fashion rules In your pants with the handle sticking out is not concealed. This is known as "homie carry", and you could shoot your dick off. This is a gray area. What the law says is....(I will not quote the law here as you might not be able to "fully" understand so I'll try to use "layman's terms") If "regular folk" just happen to notice the gun and the "regular folk" can tell it's a gun right off...then it's not concealed and therefore Open Carried and legal. The problem is the only "regular folk" in the legal system are on a jury and in order to see them you have to be charged with wrong doing and pay lots of money to a lawyer. There is nothing spelled out in the law that tells us what and what percentage of the gun must be able to be seen in order for it to be considered Open or Concealed carried. There is no such thing as "open carry" in MI, otherwise, why get the CCW permit. There are no laws stating OC but I assure you it is real. I can NOT walk down the street where ever I want with a gun "showing". Yes, you can! If you try you will more than likely eat gravel, get your clothes dirty & get a new pair of bracelts. If you do, and I have many many many times, most likely nothing will happen You can only carry open while camping & hunting. Wrong Just like before you got your CCW. Again with the felony acronym But at night, you DO NOT need to put it away & you CAN carry a flashlight with a weapon. If you're saying that someone can walk around in the woods, at night, in the dark, with their gun drawn, while using a flashlight, I would bet my last dollar that ANY DNR officer would bust you for trying to take game, which by the way is illegal Hope this helped someone. It didn't help anyone and should be deleted so as to not perpetuate the ignorance Pathfinder Ok, I have to give you this one, you got your name right. Now, before you get all bent out of shape and say I'm picking on you I assure you I am trying to help you understand where, how and why what you wrote was completely wrong. If you notice I didn't bust you on spelling errors at all. 2 reasons: I'm trying to help you and others and I spell like crap too. 
*edited to fix bolding* |
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WOW!! Thanks guys/gals, you gave me some a shit ton of info that I did not know "entirely" at all... Some I knew but was at ends while deicphering the laws. I hate reading laws that are not in "laymans terms"- makes it more confusing to understand fully. BUT, you can NOT say I was entirely wrong. 'Alot" of what I said was infact true & the links showed me that as well. Maybe not defined well, but still true. Barely anything you said was true and I'll go over it line by line seeing that you still think you know it all when in fact you know very little, sorry about that. Oh and I'll even use "layman's terms". Thanks again! Your welcome Pathfinder Oh, by the way, you can still potentially shoot your dick off when HC ("homie carry") The only people I know that "homie carry" are homie's and we don't care if they shoot their dicks off now do we?....and I guess you could call IWB a from of homie carry and you said yourself that you carry IWB so be careful would you. Quoted:
Ok, let me put this a simply as possible... All you did here in this post is muddy the waters for those that are trying to learn, smell what I'm stepping in? In MI, if you are carrying concealed & have a valid CCW, your gun must be concealed. Here not only were you totally wrong but also are perpetuating the ignorance by calling a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) a CCW which is a felony charge in Michigan of Carrying a Concealed Weapon. There is also that little clause called "accidental brandishing", meaning: If you are at the store & are carrying concealed & you reach up on a high shelf & "inadvertantly" expose any portion or the whole of your weapon, you are "safe" (so to speak) In Michigan, there is NO LITTLE CLAUSE called "accidental brandishing". Where did you pull this one out of? So to speak? No, you are ABSOLUTELY LEGAL! Brandishing is described as: allowing view of a weapon to any persons in a threatening manner. BUT to wear one on your hip & not even geture towards it can be considered "threatening" by the uneducated & can land you face first in the dirt & ass down in the back of a car with all sorts of cool lights, gadgets & gizmos."Discribed as", What the hell does that mean? The proper term is DEFINED AS. It's also not considered but rather the "uneducated" (wrong here too, it should read libtard gun grabber) may FEEL threatened but RIGHTS trump feelings in America! Now, on to "printing"... This is where it gets grey... Printing is not a gray area, it's simple a term use by us to describe when a gun or other weapon can be distinguished even though it's covered with a form of cloth. Wearing a shirt untucked over a weapon to conceal its visibility IS completely legal. It's not "completely" legal, it's restricted to only those in law enforcement and those that have CPL's However, if said shirt shows a print of a weapon (protrution), then you could, COULD find yourself having to do some explaining to the local Gestapo. If my gun prints and the "gestapo" feel the need to give me a hard time, I DO NOT and will not explain anything to them BUT, that is about it... I personally have never had to explain that happening & it happens alot with me (a pair of shorts, IWB with shirt untucked & draped over said firearm.). You may not be wrong here but without pictures we can't tell if you violated any fashion rules In your pants with the handle sticking out is not concealed. This is known as "homie carry", and you could shoot your dick off. This is a gray area. What the law says is....(I will not quote the law here as you might not be able to "fully" understand so I'll try to use "layman's terms") If "regular folk" just happen to notice the gun and the "regular folk" can tell it's a gun right off...then it's not concealed and therefore Open Carried and legal. The problem is the only "regular folk" in the legal system are on a jury and in order to see them you have to be charged with wrong doing and pay lots of money to a lawyer. There is nothing spelled out in the law that tells us what and what percentage of the gun must be able to be seen in order for it to be considered Open or Concealed carried. There is no such thing as "open carry" in MI, otherwise, why get the CCW permit. There are no laws stating OC but I assure you it is real. I can NOT walk down the street where ever I want with a gun "showing". Yes, you can! If you try you will more than likely eat gravel, get your clothes dirty & get a new pair of bracelts. If you do, and I have many many many times, most likely nothing will happen You can only carry open while camping & hunting. Wrong Just like before you got your CCW. Again with the felony acronym[b/] But at night, you DO NOT need to put it away & you CAN carry a flashlight with a weapon. If you're saying that someone can walk around in the woods, at night, in the dark, with their gun drawn, while using a flashlight, I would bet my last dollar that ANY DNR officer would bust you for trying to take game, which by the way is illegal Hope this helped someone. [b]It didn't help anyone and should be deleted so as to not perpetuate the ignorance[b/] Pathfinder [b]Ok, I have to give you this one, you got your name right Now, before you get all bent out of shape and say I'm picking on you I assure you I am trying to help you understand where, how and why what you wrote was completely wrong. If you notice I didn't bust you on spelling errors at all. 2 reasons: I'm trying to help you and others and I spell like crap too.
Nevermind... You can't even see the humor... But prissy pants did. "Homie style" doesn't even involve a holster- Just shoving it behind your belt buckle. If you would like, I can put up a picture, but then I am sure it would be a CoC violation to ethniticity. Anyways, back to my appreciation for the links... Thanks again! They definatley cleared up alot that I didn't already know, with more clarity & definition on areas that I didn't or wasn't sure of. Pathfinder BTW most of the info was from class & school. Guess it just goes to show you that classes & weapons schools should only be taught by police. But then again, they will only teach you what they want you to know. |
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Yes, I can see the humor but in that post you were "trying" to help someone understand the law. And keeping good, law abiding people ( that are trying to learn what is and what is not true about the law) out of jail we should stick to the facts first and not intermingle truth with fiction or falsehoods while try to educate.
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WOW!! Thanks guys/gals, you gave me some info that I did not know "entirely"... Some I knew but was at ends while deicphering the laws. I hate reading laws that are not in "laymans terms"- makes it more confusing to understand fully. BUT, you can NOT say I was entirely wrong. 'Alot" of what I said was infact true & the links showed me that as well. Maybe not defined well, but still true. Thanks again! Pathfinder Oh, by the way, you can still potentially shoot your dick off when HC ("homie carry") No, you were flapping your gums (fingers?) on a subject in which you had absolutely no clue what you were talking about without even attempting to provide any backing to your argument. Don't try to sugar coat it now. cvann- Who taught your CPL class? |
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I also want to know who taught cvann's class, and whether it was the main instructor or the one doing the law portion. I'm willing to put money that the law portion was done by a cop, and it's the cop that disseminated that kind of info.
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BTW most of the info was from class & school. Guess it just goes to show you that classes & weapons schools should only be taught by police. But then again, they will only teach you what they want you to know. Cops are the last people I'd want teaching me the law. If anything, they are consistently wrong about the law, and as you said, tend to 'remember' the law in whatever form makes their job easiest. A friend recently graduated from detroit PD's academy, and he was told that open carry is illegal if you have a CPL, and a whole host of other patently wrong information. 
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WOW...I am absolutely impressed with the intellectual sarcasm so expertly disseminated through such key board wizardry!!
But seriously....I travel with a letter from Former Atty. General Frank Kelley written October 26th, 1995. It is a request for clarification by State Rep. Jack Horton regarding this very question. Now, I realize, that the opinion is nearly 14 years old, but I believe that most if not all the new laws speak specifically to the CPL's cans and can'ts. It is my thought, that Mr. Kelley's opinion, should still be the "interpretation" we can legally stand on. I have the letter scanned and can email it if your interested, just PM me your email address. rookie |
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Once you have a CCW, you can no longer open carry (except if hunting, target shooting, etc.). You are bound by the CCW limitations and law.  The above post that is quoted is a prime example of bad information given via the interwebz.
With the situation described in the OP, you would be fine transitioning from concealed carry to open carry. I think where trouble might happen is if you were to take the pistol out of the holster to change from concealed to open carry. |