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AR15.COM
6/26/2008 11:47:27 AM EDT
Most campuses ban guns, which brings some unique questions to life:

Scenario: City street is going through a college campus.

Is there a definition of where a campus starts and where public domain begins?  

Is the side walk campus or is the side walk the cities?  

Does it make a difference if your a student/employee or common citizen?  

Can you have guns in your vechicle or is this considered on campus?

If your a student and you must drive through campus, on a city road are you at risk if campus safety finds out you transported 'through' campus?


Last one could be a stretched scenario but possible. What do you guys think? Have facts for? Etc.

-Cthor


(Thread started as a derivative of concerns brought up here)
6/27/2008 12:05:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Someone on GlockTalk got an actual letter from the Captain of the Michigan State police addressing this issue (might be worth a scour over there, I am pretty sure it was GT).

The gist from what I remember was that if you were driving through campus with the firearm in a legal manner (on your body if you're a CPL, stored legally if you don't have a CPL) there would not be a problem if you were stopped for an infraction.

If you intended to stop at any time on the campus, then the problem arose. You could not keep the firearm in your car since it too would be on school property. I believe MSU has some sort of storage system at the Public Safety office you can use, but I wouldn't just show up at DPS and say "fuerstma on ar15.com told me so!"

6/27/2008 5:14:16 PM EDT
[#2]
unless it is UofM, MSU, or Wayne State, it does not matter because they have no effect on people that are not students or faculty.
6/27/2008 7:08:49 PM EDT
[#3]
"unless it is UofM, MSU, or Wayne State, it does not matter because they have no effect on people that are not students or faculty."

NOT good advice, valid if memory serves me correctly while open carrying but you didn't make that distinction nor did he.


"Sec. 5o. (1) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under
section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
11
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from
carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or
picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined
in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing
agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998
PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship,
unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the
carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity
of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section
12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative
code promulgated pursuant to the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, the initiated law of 1996, MCL 432.201 to
432.226.
(3) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a civil violation guilty of a crime as follows:
(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a civil violation and may be fined
not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
(b) For a second violation the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00.
The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
(c) For a third or subsequent violation the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more
than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a
concealed pistol revoked.
6/28/2008 12:59:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the replies guys, I will research the thread in GT later.  I have to pack today to retrun to Mich.

6/28/2008 5:36:12 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:
"unless it is UofM, MSU, or Wayne State, it does not matter because they have no effect on people that are not students or faculty."

NOT good advice, valid if memory serves me correctly while open carrying but you didn't make that distinction nor did he.


"Sec. 5o. (1) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under
section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
11
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from
carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or
picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, “school” and “school property” mean those terms as defined
in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing
agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998
PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303. This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship,
unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the
carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity
of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section
12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative
code promulgated pursuant to the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, the initiated law of 1996, MCL 432.201 to
432.226.
(3) An individual who violates this section is responsible for a civil violation guilty of a crime as follows:
(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the individual is responsible for a civil violation and may be fined
not more than $500.00. The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a concealed pistol suspended for 6 months.
(b) For a second violation the individual is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $1,000.00.
The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a concealed pistol revoked.
(c) For a third or subsequent violation the individual is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more
than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both. The court shall order the individual’s license to carry a
concealed pistol revoked.


yep.  a dorm or classroom.  so if you stay out of living areas and classrooms, then you are fine.  at least thats what i was told directly from the mouth of the directory of security (county police) at my college.  They know they cant make charges stick if its not in one of those two places.
In my previous post, I assumed that anyone taking that advice would always follow the restrictions of their CCW when carrying concealed.
6/28/2008 5:55:02 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.


OK, so I can CCW while walking around UM, MSU or Wayne as long as I don't go into the dorms or building where they hold classes?
6/28/2008 8:57:15 AM EDT
[#7]
height=8
Quoted:

OK, so I can CCW while walking around UM, MSU or Wayne as long as I don't go into the dorms or building where they hold classes?


No... each of the above universities were essentially given the right to administrate themselves as though they were a city/township entity. All 3 have rules/regulations in place essentially saying CPL/CCW is not allowed in their jurisdiction.

That's my understanding, and I've read links to support it in the past on threads similar to this one. If you want further reading along this line check out the Michigan section of GlockTalk and the Michigan Gun Owners Legal Beagle section that has covered this issue many times.
6/28/2008 11:26:52 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

OK, so I can CCW while walking around UM, MSU or Wayne as long as I don't go into the dorms or building where they hold classes?


No... each of the above universities were essentially given the right to administrate themselves as though they were a city/township entity. All 3 have rules/regulations in place essentially saying CPL/CCW is not allowed in their jurisdiction.

That's my understanding, and I've read links to support it in the past on threads similar to this one. If you want further reading along this line check out the Michigan section of GlockTalk and the Michigan Gun Owners Legal Beagle section that has covered this issue many times.


This is correct.  Those "special 3" have their own laws.  Other universities only are bound by existing state law.  And administrative rule regarding fac/staff/students.  I guess they could trespass you if you were open-carrying, or your concealed gun got shown somehow and someone from university security found you.  
From what I have been legally advised, dormitories = any on-campus housing (although they call them "living centers" now), and actual classrooms.
6/28/2008 8:32:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Soooo.... with a cpl you should be allowed to go anywhere on campus with a gun, except for student housing buildings and classrooms, provided you are not a student of the university.  If you are a student of the university and bring a gun anywhere on campus you won't be in any legal trouble (if not in classroom or dorm) but you could be in trouble with the administration of the school and pontentially be expelled.  Now brings up an interesting point should you chose to open carry in a classroom or dorm hall, I suppose this is technically is legal as the cited law is for CPL holders that are carrying a concealed weapon.  As far as I know there isn't a law pertaining to open carry in a dorm or classroom, I have not researched this thoroughly, but is my understanding.

-Cthor
6/29/2008 7:41:15 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
Soooo.... with a cpl you should be allowed to go anywhere on campus with a gun, except for student housing buildings and classrooms, provided you are not a student of the university.  If you are a student of the university and bring a gun anywhere on campus you won't be in any legal trouble (if not in classroom or dorm) but you could be in trouble with the administration of the school and pontentially be expelled.  Now brings up an interesting point should you chose to open carry in a classroom or dorm hall, I suppose this is technically is legal as the cited law is for CPL holders that are carrying a concealed weapon.  As far as I know there isn't a law pertaining to open carry in a dorm or classroom, I have not researched this thoroughly, but is my understanding.

-Cthor


When I was going to SVSU, the presidente of the university came out and declared that the entire campus was a "classroom" and thus banned all concealed handguns.  He did leave an option for people to register with campus police and they would review each case to see if a student could keep the handgun secured on campus (depending on your job or whatever bs reason they determined to be legit).  Never mind that at this time there had been two sexual assaults that had gone unsolved and the university sanctioned dope day, harassing law abiding citizens was much more prudent.

Now I question if you were caught in the parking lot with a concealed weapon if they could actually charge you by claiming that it is a "classroom".  

In regards to U of M, etc, wouldn't the preemption law come into play here?  With U of M, what about the Dearborn, Flint, and Pellston campuses?
6/30/2008 7:29:32 AM EDT
[#11]
I would suspect that MSU is different being they have defined campus borders. UM is integrated with the city and probably only applies to each building.
6/30/2008 10:18:11 AM EDT
[#12]
The big 3 claim to have something in the state constitution which allows them to Precede, Pre-emption I believe.  Again, too lazy to look it up.
7/1/2008 9:49:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Michigan State University has an specific ordinance banning weapons from campus.



Firearms or Weapons

(Ordinance 18.00)

   * .01 No person shall possess any firearm or weapon anywhere upon property governed by the Board. Persons residing on property governed by the Board shall store any and all firearms and weapons with the Department of Police and Public Safety.
   * .02 No person shall possess any chemical, or other dangerous substance or compound, with the intent to injure, molest or coerce another, anywhere on property governed by the Board.
   * .03 The use of any firearm or weapon is prohibited on property governed by the Board except those areas specifically set aside and supervised at range facilities, or as a part of the regular education process, or as outlined in Ordinance 37.02 (Wildlife) and its subsections.
   * .04 This ordinance shall not apply to Police Officers and other legally established law enforcement officers.
7/1/2008 3:15:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Sounds like a lot of legalities and greyness. I know I don't want to be the one to get into trouble and have to pay a lawyer(s) to figure it out.