Posted: 8/27/2006 10:45:27 PM EDT
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Is there any way to legaly have a trunk gun short of a CCW, and folding stock, under 30 inches overall length registered as a pistol?.... On a related note is it possible to register a normal non folding stock rifle thats over 30 inches as a pistol?.... |
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CPLs (Concealed PISTOL Licenses) only allow the holder to carry a concealed PISTOL. Not a knife, taser, rifle or any other weapon. We all know that a rifle is a rifle, no matter that you need to register one (in Michigan) that is under 30". It is still a rifle. Trying to carry one under the auspices of a CPL is going to get someone into trouble. It hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, but it will. At this time "trunk guns" are not legal in Michigan. It is legal to transport a rifle (unloaded) to and from a hunting location or target range. |
IIRC that any knife with a blade over 3" is considered a Concealed weapon if you have it hidden, or anything like that. You can have it on your person, but if you get in your car and close the door it is now concealed. Gotta love our laws. That is why a rifle rack in the back window is not concealed carry. |
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And to further confuse matters, you may use a Permit to Purchase a Pistol to obtain a long gun from an FFL, and it negates the NICS call. Some folks who are chronically delayed by NICS use this method to satisfy urges of instant gratification, like an unplanned purchase at a gunshow. That still, however, does not make your long gun a handgun. |
My Norinco 56s underfolder states PISTOL on the green card . It's not my fault that the State of MI calls this a pistol. I would love for LEO to mess with me on that one. If you have a CPL you can carry your AK underfolders. Calling it a pistol , then a rifle would be a double standard. I urge all CPL owners to put their AK Underfolders in your trunk with at least 3 75rd drums. |
That is only the case if your CPL was issued or renewed afte 11/22/2005. If it was issued or renewed before that date you must still pass the NICS check and if you are dealing with the big box stores they will make the phone call regardless. |
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Hey anotherlefty, what do you think about an AR pistol as a trunk gun? I agree with you that you should'nt try to CPL a rifle or shotgun just because it's under 30" and registered as a pistol, but an AR pistol, under 30" with no stock (just the CAR length receiver tube), I personally think that would be a better way to go. What say you? I mean it is just a big bulky pistol, right? |
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That would probably be a better choice than a rifle registered as a pistol from a legal standpoint, but I haven't found AR pistols easy to shoot accurately so I wouldn't see much advantage personally. What we need to do is change the laws regarding the transport of long guns instead of trying to skirt them. We got Vear passed which covers handguns. It just needs to be expanded to long arms. Please don't take anything I post as legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. |
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Rifles under 30" and over 26" are considered pistols in MI . It does not matter if it has a stock or not , or what round it shoots. If it is under 30" (and has a 16" barrel) it is a pistol. Michigan law forces us to carry an AK underfolder as CPL weapon. My green card does not say " rifle under 30" . It say's PISTOL. No different than a AK Pistol with no stock. Let's face it guys. Having to register rifles under 30" is just plain stupid. But this is a Granholm loving lib state . If your green card say's Pistol , than it is what MI say's it is. No prosecuter would even try it if you have a notarized document from the county saying "PISTOL". |
You call MSP and ask them if it is ok to carry a pistol witha CPL. Because that is what the State has labeled it (Norinco 56s underfolder). In fact , show an LEO the green card and say , "can I carry this pistol " he will agree . Show me somthing in writing that says you can not carry a pistol of your choice in the CPL laws. You will not be able to. The fact is a rifle , shotgun , or any long gun has a Nics check. Of course a pistol requires a permit to purchase a pistol in MI . Then Safety inspection/registration . Now are you telling me that after paying 4$ for a purchase to permit a pistol (that is notarized by a county employee) for a Norinco 56s underfolder , then getting the safety inspection/registration for a pistol. You will be punished for carrying it with your CPL ? I think not. |
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Actually you can carry a rifle or shotgun as a trunk gun as long as it is unloaded and cased and not accessable to occupants of the vehicle. As a matter of fact, nothing prevents one from carrying pistol in the trunk the same way without a CPL. As long as it is unloaded, cased and unaccessable from inside the vehicle it is legal. You guys need to learn how to read. |
Fixed it for you. |
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Well, here I sit with egg on my face and a big apology offered to those that I have offended with my ignorance. I just got off the phone with Deb Smith at MSP Lansing and she informed me that carrying any firearm registered as a pistol is perfectly legal according to Michigan law. Period. I also asked here about trunk guns and although I didn't get a crystal clear answer, she said that there shouldn't be a problem as long as they were cased and/or broken down and unloaded.................which brought up loaded magazines. Again, not a crystal clear answer, but she stated that there was no Michigan law that covered that specificly and that as long as they were stored seperately (as in a different compartment of the vehicle) there shouldn't be a problem unless the DNR had some different rule. So mark this date on the calender. I was wrong AND I have publicly admitted it. I need a drink. |
That is the legal method of transporting a firearm in a vehicle without a CPL in Michigan, but... ... transport of a firearm in Michigan is limited to "lawful purposes". A reasonable person might assume that any purpose other than for the express intent of comitting an illegal act is a "lawful purpose", however the state disagrees and explicitly defines what constitues a "lawful purpose". So even if you are transporting the firearm in the legal manner as you described, it is still illegal to have it in the vehicle at all if it doesn't fall within one of the explicitly defined "lawful purposes." Having a firearm in the trunk at all times "just in case" it needed is not a "lawful purpose" according to the law... |
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Thanks for correcting me. Yes, I hate pistol registration. Anotherlefty , don't be sorry. These types of disscutions make this board interesting. I have already had this conversation with the Saginaw County Sheriff Dept. All of you guys have to be carefull of what your local PD tell you . Alot of the time they don't know what they are talking about (concerning gun laws). When I used to bring in my green cards for safety inspection/registration the county clerk would ask "do you want this laminated for an extra dollar". I would tell them "no thanks I just throw those away". The lady at the Sheriff's Dept. then tried to tell me I have to carry the green card with the pistol because it is the law......???? After calling the MSP firearms div. , and ATF I realized that this lady at the Sherrif's Dept. Was making up her own law. Our duty as a Michigan resident is to get purchase permit then have safety inspection (unless you have CLP). THERE IS NO LAW IN MI THAT CAN MAKE YOU CARRY SAFETY INSPECTION CARD. |
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anotherlefty-If the MSP tells you that it's okay to carry a rifle/shotgun thats registered as a pistol, I would bet on it not being okay. When I was trying to get my M16 paperwork taken care of the MSP told my CLEO my MG was illeagle because it was an SBR with it's 10.5" barrel. You remember that nonsence? I think what the MSP don't know they make up. You may have apologized for nothing. spartan28 reminded me of the old MCRGO message board right after we got the CPL law passed. Those guys were anti registration card nazi's. It was kind of funny when ever some noob would post how he was all excited, just registered his new pistol, going to take the personal protection class soon, etc. he'd get a crap load of people jumping his $hit about how he better burn that green card immediately! The noob would respond with something like "well what if I get pulled over and the cop ask's for it?" and the green card nazi's would be like "There's no law blah blah blah YOU MUST DESTROY IT NOW! I keep mine and show them to anyone who wants to see them just to piss them nazi's off. |
Can't say I remember it quite that way(as far as destroying them), but most of the time it was (sometimes - yeah, right  ) politely pointed out that there was no requirement to either keep them or carry them.
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