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Posted: 1/6/2006 1:09:43 PM EDT
I put a WTB: ad on a famous NFA trading board in mid 2004. I was answered with a S&W 76 that matched my specifications at a fair price. The gun was being brokered by a LV,NV shop for a local resident, and it was already being transferred to the store at that time. After taking approximately three months to actually get me photos of the gun, I mailed a check for the full amount (less $200 for the transfer).

It took another month or two for the dealer to get me forms. First set lost in the mail, excuses etc. Then, once I got them, the dealer recommended that after filling them out, I send them to him. He would submit them to the ATF, because he has a 'guy' that assists with processing the transfers faster, especially to C&Rs like myself. I was told that this would save me about a month.

So, on 2/11 I sent the forms back to the dealer, he received them, and held them probably for a bit less than a week before forwarding them on. Or so they have claimed. To date, my $200 transfer fee has not cleared.

I have been pounding the phone since September looking for a status, and out of frustration, called the ATF directly today. Using the serial number of the gun, they were able to track it's current owner, confirm that they have a match with the information I have, but NOTHING is in processes against the gun AT ALL. Basically, the dealer claims the paperwork has been with the ATF (through 'his guy') for nearly 11 months, and the ATF says it doesn't exist. So I'm probably 5 months out from getting my transfer approved.

I can't imagine that any shop carrying a Class III would dare execute a scam like this, because the ATF will come down on them so hard in conjunction with a postal fraud claim in place that it couldn't possible be worth it to do this for any amount of money. So I believe the gun exists, and frankly, at the price I paid and with 12 factory S&W magazines, I'd rather have it than have my money back.

But I feel helpless, like I have no leverage in the matter. I have no ATF forms to re-send for the transfer, and I have no access to the seller. I can't find a white pages listing on the seller (although I confirmed his name with the ATF, they checked by the serial number). With a dealer having my money that doesn't own the gun, do I really have any leverage at all?

I'm looking at a 24 months minimum from the time I agreed to the deal, 21 months from payment. What a disaster.

Thanks for listening.

-Dan
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 3:19:23 PM EDT by Jmacken37]
That sucks. May be a blessing in disguise. If the transfer hasn't been initiated, call them back and cancel the deal. Now that the C&R only rule is gone, you can get whatever you want.

Did you get a good deal on the S&W76? What did you pay?

Good luck and sorry about the hassle. It sounds like the people you are buying from are yanking your chain.

Jake
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:40:52 PM EDT
The cost was $6,300 with the 12 factory magazines, and in just tremendous condition, so it was a deal. I feel if I broke it up I could turn a decent profit. I don't consider it a blessing however, because C&R or not, I am a S&W collector and this has always been the piece that I've wanted. So I will continue to push to close the deal, but a refund will likely result in my buying a 76. Maybe the blessing in disguise is that I expect a few to 'shake loose' in MI as people rally funds to take advantage of other purchases now available.

A supressed MP5 would be a nice companion. Significant discussion on supressors was in the thread and I haven't read every bit yet, but by the time I shake this out I would like to think everyone will be clear on what's purchasable.

-Dan
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:34:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 7:19:18 AM EDT by 9245]
If he refuses to answer your calls, or E-Mails check with the ATF to get the address for his FFL, just use the EZ check, then try and contact him again, if you fail to get intouch with him again go to the post office and start procedeings for mail fraud, also call the ATF back, and ask if theres anything they can do, give the FBI a buzz to, plus call his local police department, and let them know they may be able to bust him to, you might also consider getting a lawer, and fileing a law suit, alternatively you could use the address from the EZ check, and where the gun is registered to pay him a personal visit if you would like to give him the bennefit of the dought that his mail box exploded, and all his phones are out, if he's not at that address let the ATF know, they'lle come down on him like flys on shit....
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 12:37:23 PM EDT
At this time, completing or closing the deal is top priority, and taking too much action too quickly will result in him not returning the money. I am confident that if a Class 3 FFL is accused of a crime, the BATF is duty-bound to check in, and that's not pleasant. So, as you can see, the dealer is not mentioned in this thread, and I'll keep it that way until I determine that keeping a lid on the business practices no longer has value to me. If we do not come to resolution, I will be letting plenty of FFLs and buyers know throughout the US and NV especially exactly what they are getting themselves into if they deal with this particular Class III.

One thought I have is that if the paper is actually at the ATF (though 'his guy'), a report about him lying about the status of my paperwork to the ATF would probably shake it loose. More than likely, his ATF friend would push that paperwork through to make sure that his friend was protected. So, I won't take too long into next week to take this course of action barring that I don't have any other avenues that look good.

He has often reiterated that his contact, high up in the NFA branch, typically holds the entire package until he personally works to push it through the system, and he does it quite fast, including holding the check. The fact that it's not in the system corroberates his story, but the person at the ATF who checked the status did not deny that this is possible, but seemed to think it was unlikely that she wouldn't have record of something happening.

I appreciate the thoughts and information guys.

-Dan
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