Posted: 1/21/2011 3:26:10 PM EDT
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I wanted to start a different thread from the TFA one for this............
The Nashville TFA meetings are held at a local Golden Corral & they have been VERY good to us there. Some members have been known to open carry while going thru the buffet line, either from removing their jacket or simply OCing from the git go. One is a guy who does the SASS cowboy thing, complete with SA six shooter with a thigh holster & cowboy hat. Their choice, IMO. Management of GC has been pretty cool about the whole thing as well, which kinda sorta surprises me. OTOH, this makes GC THE safest restaurant in Nashville that night. 
Anyway, some pantywaist was coming into the restaurant last Tues. night & saw one of the guys OCing & just flipped OUT. Went as far as calling the po-po on his cell as well. 
Po-po shows, gathers the store mgr & conversation ensues. Upshot is, the po-po says BFD as the mgr is cool with it & they leave. Now the pantywaist is spastic & demanding his $12 back as he refuses to be in the same bldg as a firearm. GC mgr refuses the refund (not sure why, don't care either  ) & pantywaist leaves.
Soooooooooo, my question to the hive is: is OCing a good idea or bad? On one hand, it helps desensitize the unwashed masses from just seeing a holstered gun, IMO. IOW, no big deal as 90% of our regulars are well dressed, clean cut people. OTOH, using OC allows a thug to immediately to know who to target first in the event of a robbery & quite possibly invites a snatching. Thoughts? |
| I open carry all of the time. Of course, I live in a town of about 1500 people and there has never been a problem. I have people ask me sometimes if I'm a cop and I say that I'm just exercising the rights that hundreds of thousands of brave men died for. I usually conceal if I'm in the bank cause I dont want to freak anybody out. When I visit the city, I conceal. Of course you city guys have to deal with the pantywaists, but if we step back, even one inch, they will take everything that they can get from us. We will be in the shape that the English are. |
| I was highly tempted to vote "pie", but went instead with the "sometimes" option. I would say that 99% of the time, at least in my world, it's a bad idea- scares sheeple, invites the noses of Memphis police, ruins element of surprise, etc. If I truly thought that the majority of people would be okay with open carry, or at least open minded, I would give it a resounding "hell yes", but I don't think that would be the case. |
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OC allows a thug to immediately to know who to target first in the event of a robbery & quite possibly invites a snatching.
Though this might be the "conventional wisdom," it fails to take one thing into account: Criminals want a victim... not a fight. To my knowledge there is no known incident of a OC'er being targeted first in a crime. It is far more likely that an OC'er would a) Not be noticed. b) If the criminal saw the OC'er, they would likely select another target at another place and time. To Bob's question, I OC at times. Usually CC. I OC when I am forced to go to the Hermitage Wal Mart (usually helps keep the rufians and thugs at a safe distance... if they notice it) or similar. I OC at places like the "Second or none" rally or similar. I OC at Prentice Cooper Range, and other public ranges without RSO's. Just in case some idiot thinks they want my firearm on the bench. I CC 99% of the time. |
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For over 20 years I have open carried in KY. When we got our CCDW I got my license but I still open carry very frequently during the warm months simply because I'm not too concerned about being seen. There is a group that meets and has open carry dinners at various eateries around Louisville that I have gone out with and there was even an OC picnic and an OC highway cleanup event a couple of summers ago.
The whole point is to acclimatize the sheeple and to exercise a right. I have never been, nor has anyone I know ever been, shot on sight by the popo, shot first in a robbery, had a gun snatched and used against me, arrested for disturbing the peace/inciting a riot/disorderly conduct/etc., or any of those other multitudes of things folks say are going to happen if you dare step foot in public with a handgun in full view. In Bob's example the pantywaist learned that OC is 100% legal and even if he doesn't like it, it's still a fact. He probably told all of his liberal pantywaist friends and family too. Other folks who were in the restaurant also saw the event and found out that its totally legal. The more OC is "seen" the more it becomes "normalized". My bottom line: If you feel comfortable with OC then go for it. It you're scared then just say you're scared and don't do it. Don't make up all these excuses about what could happen to you to make up for your own uneasiness. |
| I do not open carry uless I'm in the forrest. I want it to be a total suprise when the BG does something and finds out I'm armed better than he is. Also do not want to be shot in the back and then robbed becase he knows I armed and still wants what I have. And shooting 1st is the easiest way to do it. |
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I prefer concealed, mainly because none of my holsters have any sort of retention system. I'd rather keep it that way. I have carried openly a time or two, mainly getting off work wearing slacks and a tucked in shirt and going in to the gas station. I've never had an outwardly negative reaction from anyone about it. |
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In Bob's example the pantywaist learned that OC is 100% legal and even if he doesn't like it, it's still a fact. He probably told all of his liberal pantywaist friends and family too. Other folks who were in the restaurant also saw the event and found out that its totally legal. The more OC is "seen" the more it becomes "normalized". The downside is that if enough pantywaists are offended, in a short enough length of time, they could make enough noise to make it an issue. Once it becomes an issue, the news media will jump on it, and probably side with the pantywaists, since fear produces ratings. Instead of working toward being "normalized", it then becomes polarizing (too easy for things to go to one extreme or the other). From Bob's description, it sounds like this particular pantywaist probably convinced the police and management that he was a lone asshole. A lone pantywaist asshole serves to show the fence sitters what the pantywaists are really like. A group of pantywaist assholes, with enough sense to use the media to their advantage, could be a problem. |
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In Bob's example the pantywaist learned that OC is 100% legal and even if he doesn't like it, it's still a fact. He probably told all of his liberal pantywaist friends and family too. Other folks who were in the restaurant also saw the event and found out that its totally legal. The more OC is "seen" the more it becomes "normalized". The downside is that if enough pantywaists are offended, in a short enough length of time, they could make enough noise to make it an issue. Once it becomes an issue, the news media will jump on it, and probably side with the pantywaists, since fear produces ratings. Instead of working toward being "normalized", it then becomes polarizing (too easy for things to go to one extreme or the other).From Bob's description, it sounds like this particular pantywaist probably convinced the police and management that he was a lone asshole. A lone pantywaist asshole serves to show the fence sitters what the pantywaists are really like. A group of pantywaist assholes, with enough sense to use the media to their advantage, could be a problem. Remember the guy that open carried an AR15 in Arizona near a place where Obama was appearing not to long ago? link . Remember the fellow OCing a handgun and carrying the sign about watering the tree of liberty outside of an Obama Town Hall Meeting in New Hampshire? link Everything you mentioned DID happen and it happened on a national level and you couldn't turn on the TV for days without hearing about either event. I don't think it could get much bigger than that, yet OC is still legal in AZ and New Hampshire. OC has always been legal in Kentucky and I'm sure over the past 200+ years there have been many offended pantywaists. When men and women quit worrying about opinions and all this crap they read on the internet we can move firearms into a more positive light. Maybe we should learn something from the gay and lesbian community and start having parades, rallies, gatherings, etc and get people used to the idea that gun owners are here and we're not afraid to exercise out rights. Or we can just sit around and convince ourselves that some bad guy will take our guns and shoot us with them because we lost our "tactical advantage" |
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Never have, never will. (rifle ranges dont count IMO)
I dont want any BS that could come about from open carry. I'm not saying it will, but that it could. I keep it concealed 100% of the time and I have 100% success rate of nothing ever coming up about it. Thats just me. |
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Never have, never will. (rifle ranges dont count IMO) I dont want any BS that could come about from open carry. I'm not saying it will, but that it could. I keep it concealed 100% of the time and I have 100% success rate of nothing ever coming up about it. Thats just me. This pretty much sums up my thoughts. |
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Never have, never will. (rifle ranges dont count IMO) I dont want any BS that could come about from open carry. I'm not saying it will, but that it could. I keep it concealed 100% of the time and I have 100% success rate of nothing ever coming up about it. Thats just me. This pretty much sums up my thoughts. My thoughts also. |
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In Bob's example the pantywaist learned that OC is 100% legal and even if he doesn't like it, it's still a fact. He probably told all of his liberal pantywaist friends and family too. Other folks who were in the restaurant also saw the event and found out that its totally legal. The more OC is "seen" the more it becomes "normalized". The downside is that if enough pantywaists are offended, in a short enough length of time, they could make enough noise to make it an issue. Once it becomes an issue, the news media will jump on it, and probably side with the pantywaists, since fear produces ratings. Instead of working toward being "normalized", it then becomes polarizing (too easy for things to go to one extreme or the other). From Bob's description, it sounds like this particular pantywaist probably convinced the police and management that he was a lone asshole. A lone pantywaist asshole serves to show the fence sitters what the pantywaists are really like. A group of pantywaist assholes, with enough sense to use the media to their advantage, could be a problem. Here's a link to my post about it on the TFA Forum: http://www.tfaonline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3639 I think you're right: he wanted to make a scene, and did everything in his power, short of calling the news media––though he did call the police, to make it an "event". I'm very pleased with how the staff at Golden Corral handled it––especially the woman who told him if the cops did show up, they would be carrying guns too! Remember, we've been holding our meetings there for at least a year, and they know us & appreciate our business. By my estimation, on average, our meeting probably accounts for 50% of their business on meeting nights (meaning, our attendance usually at least matches the number of people eating in the rest of the restaurant). We have a regular waiter who goes to great lengths to take care of us––because we take very good care of him! $$$!!! I only open carry at the range, when in the woods or working on the farm––and not always in any of those places. This yahoo at GC never knew just how many people were actually carrying...and that's the way it should be, in my opinion. David Tennessee Firearms Association TFA Forum |
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In Bob's example the pantywaist learned that OC is 100% legal and even if he doesn't like it, it's still a fact. He probably told all of his liberal pantywaist friends and family too. Other folks who were in the restaurant also saw the event and found out that its totally legal. The more OC is "seen" the more it becomes "normalized". The downside is that if enough pantywaists are offended, in a short enough length of time, they could make enough noise to make it an issue. Once it becomes an issue, the news media will jump on it, and probably side with the pantywaists, since fear produces ratings. Instead of working toward being "normalized", it then becomes polarizing (too easy for things to go to one extreme or the other). From Bob's description, it sounds like this particular pantywaist probably convinced the police and management that he was a lone asshole. A lone pantywaist asshole serves to show the fence sitters what the pantywaists are really like. A group of pantywaist assholes, with enough sense to use the media to their advantage, could be a problem. Here's a link to my post about it on the TFA Forum: http://www.tfaonline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3639 I think you're –though he did call the police, to make it an "event". I'm very pleased with how the staff at Golden Corral handled it––especially the woman who told him if the cops did show up, they would be carrying guns too! Remember, we've been holding our meetings there for at least a year, and they know us & appreciate our business. By my estimation, on average, our meeting probably accounts for 50% of their business on meeting nights (meaning, our attendance usually at least matches the number of people eating in the rest of the restaurant). We have a regular waiter who goes to great lengths to take care of us––because we take very good care of him! $$$!!! I only open carry at the range, when in the woods or working on the farm––and not always in any of those places. This yahoo at GC never knew just how many people were actually carrying...and that's the way it should be, in my opinion. David Tennessee Firearms Association TFA Forum After reading your description, in the TFA thread, yes, he did seem the type that would try to stir things up with the news media and try to get some law passed to restrict us. Fortunately, the police and Golden Corral staff and management seem to have handled the situation well, and the guy probably only succeeded in convincing more people that he was an asshole. Give him the right situation, with a sufficient number of fence sitters already leaning his way, and he just might find his calling in life. I am not opposed to open carry. I normally conceal, but strongly appreciate that our law allows either and prevents me from worrying about whether or not I am concealing enough to satisfy some officer's personal guidelines. If I lived farther from Nashville, I'd probably be less concerned about keeping it concealed, but there's too many assholes (like that guy) in Nashville, and I don't care to do anything more to attract them. |
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Never have, never will. (rifle ranges dont count IMO) I dont want any BS that could come about from open carry. I'm not saying it will, but that it could. I keep it concealed 100% of the time and I have 100% success rate of nothing ever coming up about it. Thats just me. This pretty much sums up my thoughts. My thoughts also. I'll add my +1 to this. |
| I cover but don't get over cautious about making sure no one knows. I will not be like the yahoo in nashville and carry an ak pistol (in hand) and not expect issues. If my muzzle happens to show or I pend over and shirt shifts I could care less if people see but I will recover it. I was in great clips in Columbia yesterday and someone said something when I got up from my haircut. They asked if I was a cop and I said "No, I'm just making sure everyone around me is a little safer" They shrugged it off and I paid and left. Like I said I try to make it a non issue. |
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I think overall OC is a bad idea. I like the TN law that allows open carry though. It is my understanding it was written that way because in some states that required concealed carry if your gun shows they make a big deal out of it. Here if your gun shows it doesn't matter. If I have my shirt tucked in and am wearing a holstered gun and I have to pump gas, stand up in a restuarant to put my jacket back on when I am leaving, or something like that and my gun is going to show I am not going to worry about covering up my gun. Likewise if the bottom of my holster is showing below my cover garment or something I don't care.
I see people open carrying sometimes. The other day a guy was OCing at the Kroger near my house. No one seemed to care. Bottom line though I don't like to draw attention to myself and the enemy is best taken by surprise. Here in Memphis I see people carrying guns all the time and I am sure everybody else does to. It just isn't a big deal. |
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I personally havent done it and never really been inclined to. I am very glad that we can do it. If I accidentally show, I dont have to worry about being hauled off to jail (as some states.)
As stated, if a criminal tries something, I dont want to be the first target, so I choose to not carry open, I also dont want to have to deal with the publicity and cops called on me. Also I dont pay attention to every place I go into, so I dont want to go to jail for forgetting to check the front door. I also dont want managers to start putting up signs because I offended some customers. What really pisses me off is when the stupd MF's who open carry, then if a manager says something about it (because it may have offended a customer) and instead of putting a shirt over it or leaving, they cause a stink and start yelling about its a right and the cops are called and the guy is escorted out the door (and possibly to jail.) That hurts us more than anything I think. Oh, and the instance where I am talking about they put up a sign the next day!!!!!! F@#$er!!!!! Dont be an @$$, just comply and be courteous, dont make the manager and have them put up a sign and hurt the rest of us! |
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Depends on the gun, the day, and what I am wearing.
For open carry, I like a 1911....cocked and locked (as it should be). That way its in the open and "cocked"
Any other day, G19 in RCS, if it shows here and there i don't really think about it. If I'm going to be in / pass through a bad part of town, then its concealed....element of surprise wins here, IMO. |
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I carry a gun everywhere I go so I can protect myself and my family.
I put myself at a huge disadvantage if a potential "bad guy" surveys the crowd and puts me at the top of his potential threat list. This is why I also don't wear gun T-shirts or hats when I am out in public. I save open carry and wearing my gun logo gear for the range. Anywhere else, I want to blend in and become the grey man. |
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Depends on the gun, the day, and what I am wearing. For open carry, I like a 1911....cocked and locked (as it should be). That way its in the open and "cocked"
Any other day, G19 in RCS, if it shows here and there i don't really think about it. If I'm going to be in / pass through a bad part of town, then its concealed....element of surprise wins here, IMO. You get your CAS-V set up yet? |
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Depends on the gun, the day, and what I am wearing. For open carry, I like a 1911....cocked and locked (as it should be). That way its in the open and "cocked"
Any other day, G19 in RCS, if it shows here and there i don't really think about it. If I'm going to be in / pass through a bad part of town, then its concealed....element of surprise wins here, IMO. You get your CAS-V set up yet? Not yet....ended up buying more ammo. I plan on ordering soon. |