Posted: 11/21/2009 4:37:09 PM EDT
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So I'm on my way home tonight from the farm and troopers have set a road block on the Montgomery/Stewart line. The first thing I think is shit one of my tail lights is out on the trailer I'm pulling which I noticed when I plugged them up. I pull up to the trooper and he says this is a license check, so I unbuckle and get my wallet and produce my license. He sees my handgun permit and asks me if that is a handgun permit to which I respond yes and then he asks if I have a weapon. I respond yes I do and it is on my person. He then tells me in a rude manner that I have violated the law by not telling him immediately and that he can issue me a citation and I will lose my permit. Of course I can't say he is mistaken because I'm worried about my damn tail light for which I am definately in the wrong. I told him that I had never heard of being required to immediately tell an officer that I have a permit. He says well you do and then goes on to tell me several more times that was the law and he could write a citation and I would loose my permit and asked me if I understood. I responded yes and then he told me to move along. I know the law doesn't require it but should you really tell an officer the second they near if you are just going through a DUI checkpoint. I can understand MAYBE if being pulled over, but a DUI checkpoint. I guess what I really want to know is an LEO opinion on the matter. I have several LEO friends, but they are gun guys and thier opinion mirrors mine. All opinions appreciated. |
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Troopers are retards for the most part. They don't know criminal law usually.
If it isn't traffic/commercial vehicle/accident related, they are lost like a dog in high grass. He was wrong and you are right. Blow it off or file a complaint with the troop commander. |
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Personal experience:
Told a trooper handling an accident I was in that I had a permit, and his immediate response was that he didn't care about that. I had to interupt him to continue my explanation that the problem was that the item I had the permit for was still buried in my totalled car (didn't think it would look good if I pulled it out of the wreckage while the emergency units were still working the accident). Had a couple of relatively minor accidents that metro Nashville police handled, I didn't tell them that I had a permit and was armed, and they never brought up the subject. Got stopped by Vandy police, was polite and immediately admitted my error. Didn't tell him about my permit or the guns that were in the car (was on my way home from a Goodman show). He ran my license and registration, then let me go with a warning. Got stopped on a bogus traffic violation by a metro Nashville police officer. Handed him my permit with my license, but he took the license and left my permit in my hand. Neither of us said anything about the permit or the fact that I was armed, but I made certain to keep my hands in plain sight. The officer made a bit of an ass of himself, both during the stop and in the courtroom (the judge sided with me). And as has already been stated, there is no legal requirement to notify the officer that you have a permit. It is often recommended that permit holders present their permit with their license, during a traffic stop, but my experience indicates that the individual officer will end up being the deciding factor in whether or not that ends up being a wise move. |
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Personal experience: Got stopped on a bogus traffic violation by a metro Nashville police officer. Handed him my permit with my license, but he took the license and left my permit in my hand. Neither of us said anything about the permit or the fact that I was armed, but I made certain to keep my hands in plain sight. The officer made a bit of an ass of himself, both during the stop and in the courtroom (the judge sided with me). . Ok...so what's the rest of the story 
A License check point? Fucking ridiculous. My country tis of thee. And how many threads a week do we see about cops who don't know the law? 95% ignorant retards ( I think there's been studies) |
| My HCP class was taught by a retired police officer who I have known for many years and have a great amount of respect for. His take: telling an officer that you have a HCP or that you are armed is NOT required, however, you may save everyone quite a bit of trouble if you make it known up front when you are in a position where you are going to be asked for identification. His preference was to have the permit and license handed to him at the same time without comment, unless in reaching for your license your firearm would be made visible. |
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His preference was to have the permit and license handed to him at the same time without comment, unless in reaching for your license your firearm would be made visible. I've had several tell me this as well. To me, handing them both at the same time & saying nothing seems to be the thing to do, IMO. |
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My favorite comment to a police officer ever was in a courtroom in Chattanooga 20-something years ago.
An officer had written a man a ticket for something ridiculous and they guy fought it. The officer was wrong and the judge told him in dismissing the ticket, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Sometimes the shoe is on the other foot. But remember, that no matter how good a person you are, the last 15 people a cop had to deal with were probably meth-heads with bad manners and worse body odor. Tom (Tachyon) |
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His preference was to have the permit and license handed to him at the same time without comment, unless in reaching for your license your firearm would be made visible. I've had several tell me this as well. To me, handing them both at the same time & saying nothing seems to be the thing to do, IMO. This is what I will do should the need arise in the future. |
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Personally I would have asked the trooper if I was being detained, until he replied "No", at which point I would have asked if I was free to leave until he answered "Yes".
If he does not have PC or RAS then he has NO right to ask for (or demand) my ID. I respect most cops and the job they do (and the risks they take in their job), but I will NOT surrender my RIGHTS. |
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Personally I would have asked the trooper if I was being detained, until he replied "No", at which point I would have asked if I was free to leave until he answered "Yes". If he does not have PC or RAS then he has NO right to ask for (or demand) my ID. I respect most cops and the job they do (and the risks they take in their job), but I will NOT surrender my RIGHTS. Somehow I don't think that would go the way you would want it too. If you want to act like that asshole did to the Border Patrol, go ahead, but I seem to remember stupid games get you stupid prizes. If you are operating a motor vehicle, then LE has every "right" as well as lawful authority to have you present a drivers license for their inspection. You can lawfully be detained for the purposes of identification. I think you need to refresh yourself on TCA, as well as consitutional law as upheld in court decisions. |
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Personal experience: Got stopped on a bogus traffic violation by a metro Nashville police officer. Handed him my permit with my license, but he took the license and left my permit in my hand. Neither of us said anything about the permit or the fact that I was armed, but I made certain to keep my hands in plain sight. The officer made a bit of an ass of himself, both during the stop and in the courtroom (the judge sided with me). . Ok...so what's the rest of the story
Rush hour in Nashville, highway with a 65mph speed limit, two lanes going each way and a concrete wall in the middle. Came around a curve that had trees blocking my view of what was around the curve, and there was a metro police officer returning to his car after finishing writing a ticket. I hit my brakes and started looking for room to move over to the left lane. Unfortunatetly, the car at the front of a line of 8 or 10 cars in the left lane also hit their brakes, making everybody bunch up. I kept slowing down, hoping that the cars in the left lane would pass me before I got to the cop, but it didn't work. I moved over as far as I could to the left, without crowding the SUV in the left lane into the concrete wall, as I passed the cop and his car. He chased me down, asked if I knew about Tennessee's move over law, then angrily declared that I had "PLENTY OF TIME TO MOVE OVER" when I started to mention the number of cars in the left lane. Later, I went back and had my daughter take pictures, from the passenger seat, of the approach to the point where I passed the officer. In court, the officer explained what happened, then I presented the pictures and asked how much distance the officer thought I had from the point I could see him until I passed him. The officer's argument kinda went downhill from there, and boiled down to the fact that he never saw me turn on my turn signal to indicate that I was trying to switch lanes, and that he was certain that I had at least 50 or 60 feet (on a highway with a 65mph speed limit) in which I could have made the decision to move over and found a gap to "safely" do so. The judge sided with me, and also sided with the other driver who was pulled over for the same offense, a few miles away on the same highway, and also during rush hour. A few days after my court date, I was driving around the interstate loop in Nashville, during rush hour, and saw a metro cop step out into the right lane without looking to see if anything was coming. I was already in the next lane over, and fortunately had slowed down to provide room for the guy in the right lane (who didn't seem to know about the move over law). The guy in the right lane hit his brakes, then cut over in front of me, in time to miss the officer. The officer looked at the other driver as he passed, then shook his head like he thought the guy was an idiot for driving the way he was. |
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Don't forget the fact that you can be help without being charged with a crime for a period of time while they investigate. Until you are officially charged and booked in you are not entitled to make a phone call. In the jurisdiction I worked, a mojor one BTW, the investigators would bring us suspects to hold as part of an invstigation. They would never be booked in, changed out to or given a phone call. Only put in a holding cell, fed and allowed to use the restroom. I have seen people held in this status for 72 hours than at the last minute the investigators walk them to street level and release them without saying a word. This would happen very regularly, almost every time they were doing any type of sting. They held people for up to 72 hours or until they rolled which ever came first then release them.
Dolomite |
| Very similar situation. Same place ironically. Was also told the same by trooper, that wrote me a speeding ticket. He also said he could tell by my drivers liscense, got something todo with the color on it, that I had a CCW. Way I understood it, it sets them at ease knowing weather or not your carrying. Kind of a CCW eticut. I can understand that. First thing I tell them now, and weather or not am carrying. |
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Very similar situation. Same place ironically. Was also told the same by trooper, that wrote me a speeding ticket. He also said he could tell by my drivers liscense, got something todo with the color on it, that I had a CCW. Way I understood it, it sets them at ease knowing weather or not your carrying. Kind of a CCW eticut. I can understand that. First thing I tell them now, and weather or not am carrying. When a trooper, or even a city or county officer pulls you over and calls in (runs) your tag to dispatch, (if it is your car) a screen pops upa at dispatch with all your info on it. Dispatch then informs the officer of who is supposed to be driving the car and whether or not they have a valid carry permit. (All before they ever get to your window and ask for your license.) Has nothing whatsoever to do with anything ON your actual drivers license. MIKE |
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When a trooper, or even a city or county officer pulls you over and calls in (runs) your tag to dispatch, (if it is your car) a screen pops upa at dispatch with all your info on it. Dispatch then informs the officer of who is supposed to be driving the car and whether or not they have a valid carry permit. (All before they ever get to your window and ask for your license.) Has nothing whatsoever to do with anything ON your actual drivers license. MIKE This is not always the case. Depends on the department. |
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When your license plate"TAG" is run, it does not show your permit status. Only you drivers license shows your permit status. Dispatch can run your tag, then run your license from that. Most dispatchers don't do this unless asked by the officer, but some do.
As far as asking for a license, only troopers can run a license check point, all sworn officers can run a DUI check point And yes there are officers that don't know the law about permits, KPD has had issues with this in the past. I had a rookie that told me once, and I quote. "If I stop somebody and they don't tell me, they will be eating their teeth". When I asked him how he was going to explain that in FED court, he told me they had to tell him. I then told him to show me in the TCA where that was. When he couldn't, I then explained that he shouldn't listen to other officers, he should find out on his own what the law really is. And by the way he was from Texas, where that is a law. |
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when i was in ohio, i was NOT carrying, but had a permit. i pulled out of a gas station in toledo and got across the road before realizing my lights weren't on. (brand new car and i thought they were automatic)
officer pulled me over. ran my license and gave me static about not telling him that i was a permit holder which i was required by law to do. i told him i wasn't carrying and he said it didn't matter. we had a polite discussion and he let me off. |