Posted: 6/2/2009 8:44:00 PM EDT
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So my paperwork is in at the gunsmith to SBR my rifle. Can my wife drop it off at the gunsmith? The rifle has not been assembled yet, the receiver has not been engraved yet, she is not on the paperwork. |
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If your barrel is at the gunsmith, then as far as I understand it there is no paper work. The gunsmith should cut the barrel and give it back to you, wife, whoever. For all he knows you're making a pistol AR...
All that matters is that you keep the forms with the lower receiver and in no one else's possession, at least when you're not around. |
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Also even if it didn't have anything to do with NFA stuff whoever drops it off at the gunsmith officially needs to be the one to pick it up when it's done or else it's a transfer and needs paperwork done. Just a FYI. Only if it's a firearm. If it's just a barrel cut with no lower, then no transfer right? |
| If the form 1 has just been submitted then no worries. It isn't an SBR until approved and that is running at 3 to 4 months right now. If the gunsmith is going to be the maker and submit the forms the serialized receiver should already be in his possession. If you sent the forms in and are just having him do the barrel then just let him hang on to it until you get the approved form back from BATFE. |
| Ok, sorry I was not clear. The gunsmith is the maker in this case, so the ATF sent the paperwork back to him. I got the call my paperwork just came back approved. I have been using my Colt for work, so he told me to hold on to it until the paperwork is back. He needs the lower to engrave it. I have a new upper, barrel and hand guard he is going to install at the same time. So the question is, if my wife drops off the lower to him to be engraved is that an issue? |
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Ok, sorry I was not clear. The gunsmith is the maker in this case, so the ATF sent the paperwork back to him. I got the call my paperwork just came back approved. I have been using my Colt for work, so he told me to hold on to it until the paperwork is back. He needs the lower to engrave it. I have a new upper, barrel and hand guard he is going to install at the same time. So the question is, if my wife drops off the lower to him to be engraved is that an issue? I am confused. Is this an AR? To be clear about the chain of events is this correct?: - You have a striped non registered lower that your smith filed a form 1 on listing him as the maker of the firearm. - Your lower has not been engraved but your stamp has arrived. If that is the case - - What is the smith going to have engraved on it? Your (name / trust) or his name? If it is his name is how is he transferring it to you? - If your stamp is back and your lower hasn't been engraved - technically you need to file more paper work to have it sent off to be engraved as you are no longer in possession of it. This is why folks get them engraved during the wait period. Also if you haven't already mic the pin and magwell to confirm they are within spec since you will be married to this lower forever. |
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If your gunsmith is the maker and got approval in his name he should be in possession of the lower. It sounds like you might illegally be in possession of an NFA item though if you are a LEO perhaps there is an exception. Don't drag your wife into this and get the lower to him pronto. Don't take possession of it until it is transferred to you properly.
ETA: Find a new gunsmith if this is the case. |
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I am still confused.
Did the smith file a Form One in his name as the manufacturer? If so, who paid the $200 tax? If he filed the F1 as him and not you as the manufacturer - how is he going to transfer it to you? Form 4 with another $200 tax? Or did he file the F1 in your name and just not get around to getting it engraved? ETA - gotta be someone semi local to you that can laser engrave so you are never 'out of possession'. And, not that I encourage it - this isn't the first time I have heard of a lower being engraved after the fact. Just better hope it doesn't get lost in the mail - LOL. Seriously - mic the pin holes and the mag well to confirm it is in spec while you still have a chance. It'll work out, hang in there. |
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Will a laser get to the required .003" ?
I'm starting to think this is a fishing trip since the OP is not answering the obvious questions. OP, Start from the beginning and tell us the exact steps you went through to were you are today if you want some clear advise, ya gotta give clear details. |
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Will a laser get to the required .003" ? I'm starting to think this is a fishing trip since the OP is not answering the obvious questions. OP, Start from the beginning and tell us the exact steps you went through to were you are today if you want some clear advise, ya gotta give clear details. +1 |
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Ok, this is my first SBR. I filled out the paper work, fingerprints and the letter from the Sheriff, I wrote the check to the ATF. The gunsmith mailed it in for me in Nov; the ATF mailed back it to him. He told me that was the way it is done. The rifle is registered to me, I called and asked him.
He told me because it is my work rifle to hold on to it until the paperwork came back. He called me to tell me the paperwork is done and to bring my rifle in to him to engrave. I had ordered a new upper from Vltor and barrel from Noveske they showed up. He told me he would assemble the upper, barrel and the rest for me, for a charge. So where I am at as of right now, I need to take the lower receiver, barrel and upper receiver to him on Friday, he will engrave it and give me my paperwork and I am done, I hope. I was unsure since the rifle had not been engraved and the 12 ½ barrel not installed if it was ok for my wife to drop it off at the gunsmith. I asked a person I know at the ATF if it was ok, he told me ABSOLUTELY NOT, I need to drop it off. I told him what was going on; he was confused as to why the gunsmith did it the way they did it also. Needless to say, I will not use this gunsmith again. No, I am not going to tell you who it is. I will tell you the next time I do any type of NFA weapon I will make a trip to the other side of the world to the gunsmith that has a very good reputation in a town that got flooded out a few years ago. This whole thing almost soured me on the whole process. So I hope I cleared it up, because to me it is almost as clear as mud. I just hope it shoots. |
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So first thing, I would go get my paper work from the "gunsmith" and keep it with the lower receiver. At the same time I would probably have the gunsmith engrave the lower and put your new upper assembly on it at the same time. (By the way there are plenty of guys here in the OHTF that would gladly mount the barrel to the upper receiver for you and not even charge you for the service.)
You can just leave your old upper assembly at home since it sounds like it is 16"+ and you are not cutting it, rather you are replacing it. In the end, keep a copy of the NFA paper work with the now SBR lower receiver at all time and never let anyone handle it without being in your presence. The gunsmith can have it for the purpose of doing work on it, assuming he has all of the legal things in order with the NFA, i.e. FFL/SOT. And don't have your wife "drop it off". And last but not least, good luck my friend! 
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I called the ATF today and asked some questions about the whole thing. I picked up my paperwork and tax stamp. The gunsmith is engraving it as we speak, they told me since he is doing the work, and is a manufacturer I can leave it with him with a copy of the paperwork. They also told me it is ok for him to send it off for me and it is registered to me, not him.
What I have learned, always have the paperwork sent to my house and next time do a living trust. I am not going to bash the gunsmith; he is a nice enough guy but has been beat up on AR15.com enough. I wish I would have done a little more research. Next time I am going to use an unnamed gunsmith that is in the little Oregon town that got flooded two years ago. No this is not a “Trade secret” type thing. LOL, sorry could not resist. The bright side is my rifle will be done tomorrow and I can go out and see how long until I wear out the Noveske barrel. |
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I called the ATF today and asked some questions about the whole thing. I picked up my paperwork and tax stamp. The gunsmith is engraving it as we speak, they told me since he is doing the work, and is a manufacturer I can leave it with him with a copy of the paperwork. They also told me it is ok for him to send it off for me and it is registered to me, not him. What I have learned, always have the paperwork sent to my house and next time do a living trust. I am not going to bash the gunsmith; he is a nice enough guy but has been beat up on AR15.com enough. I wish I would have done a little more research. Next time I am going to use an unnamed gunsmith that is in the little Oregon town that got flooded two years ago. No this is not a “Trade secret” type thing. LOL, sorry could not resist. The bright side is my rifle will be done tomorrow and I can go out and see how long until I wear out the Noveske barrel. Do not forget! You need to post pictures of that baby too!
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I called the ATF today and asked some questions about the whole thing. I picked up my paperwork and tax stamp. The gunsmith is engraving it as we speak, they told me since he is doing the work, and is a manufacturer I can leave it with him with a copy of the paperwork. They also told me it is ok for him to send it off for me and it is registered to me, not him. What I have learned, always have the paperwork sent to my house and next time do a living trust. I think you were fortunate enough to speak to a reasonable person at the ATF that understood you were trying to do the right thing and were working with someone that may or may not know what they are doing but probably just got behind the curve on this one. I was asking b/c it was (and it still is to a degree) confusing as to who is the 'manufacturer' of the SBR and who is the 'applicant'. To be more precise about it an F1 is for a non licensee manufacturing the weapon (usually you) and that person is also the applicant. If those two people are different than one another a second transfer on a Form 4 needs to take place. In the end it sounds like you have smith that basically said: "Hey I'll manage your paper work process and slap some parts together so when your stamp gets back you can go shoot". Hell if that is the case, I can remotely see where he may have thought you knew you needed to send it out to be engraved (and I recognize you may not have known). Also FYI the ATF 'recommends' that a form 5 be submitted prior to the firearm being relinquished from the possession of the stamp holder to the custody of FFL for any 'repairs'. All in all sounds like it is gonna work out just fine and you should be shootin a short rifle really soon. Enjoy it. If you haven't already, download the ATF Handbook and keep it around for any questions you might have. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/index.htm |