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Posted: 3/18/2006 6:42:09 PM EDT
Today I went to the 600 yard rifle practice at TCGC.


After setting up at the 300 yards range I had 20 minutes to confirm zero on those little targets.



Then we moved back to 600 yards. The targets got a lot smaller:


They are actually pretty big close up:


One group shoots while a second group in the pits marks targets, cranking them up and down:


They look impressive up there:


This is what they look like when you mark them. The white plug is in the bullet hole and the orange marker position to the lower right indicates the hit is in the 9 ring, right on the line in this case. This way the shooter sees exactly where he hit and can adjust if necessary:




Here is another look at the targets over my rifle. They are waaay out there:




I was shooting Black Hills 55 grain today. I found out it drops 126" at 600 yards with a 100 yard zero!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:09:33 PM EDT
it drops 126"



Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:30:10 PM EDT
Try shooting 500 yards with a well used M16A2 and iron sights. Oh and no bipod. That was part of the standard rifle qualification when I was in the USMC. The course of fire was:

- 200 yards slow fire, 5 rds. offhand, 5 rds. kneeling, 5rds. sitting, 15 min.
- 200 yards rapid fire, 10 rds. kneeling, 1 reload, 60 sec.
- 300 yards slow fire, 5 rds. kneeling, 5 min.
- 300 yards rapid fire, 10 rds. sitting, 1 reload, 60 sec.
- 500 yards slow fire, 10 rds. prone, 10 min.

250 possible points. My best score was a 236.

Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:47:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EKinOR:
Try shooting 500 yards with a well used M16A2 and iron sights. Oh and no bipod. That was part of the standard rifle qualification when I was in the USMC. The course of fire was:

- 200 yards slow fire, 5 rds. offhand, 5 rds. kneeling, 5rds. sitting, 15 min.
- 200 yards rapid fire, 10 rds. kneeling, 1 reload, 60 sec.
- 300 yards slow fire, 5 rds. kneeling, 5 min.
- 300 yards rapid fire, 10 rds. sitting, 1 reload, 60 sec.
- 500 yards slow fire, 10 rds. prone, 10 min.

250 possible points. My best score was a 236.




Those were the days! My best was 232, but my aging eyes cannot see that far clearly anymore.

Looks like fun Tango. I need to do that one of these days when I get my 20' scoped.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:55:35 PM EDT
10-1/2 foot drop.. cool. Looks fun. Wish I could make it to a 600m shoot.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 2:22:36 AM EDT
If you make the OFA Precision Rifle Course at COSSA, you will be shooting at balloons up to 500 yards. The wind blows pretty good out there too.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:19:42 AM EDT
Tango: Great Pictures!

Spambo
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 4:18:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spambo:
Tango: Great Pictures!

Spambo



+1
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:21:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 2:22:08 AM EDT by iroc409]
tf, what range is that? looks nice i need to go shooting REALLY bad
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:20:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By iroc409:
tf, what range is that? looks nice i need to go shooting REALLY bad



It's Tri-County gun club. The 600 yard line only gets opened up at specific times.

Go here
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:51:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:14:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
I was shooting Black Hills 55 grain today. I found out it drops 126" at 600 yards with a 100 yard zero!



Ya sure about that? I show anywhere between 56 and 62" of drop at 500yds with a 100yd zero. Are you sure you can get that kind of elevation out of that leupy with 1/2moa clicks?



1" at 100 yards = 6" at 600 yards.

I had 21" set on the dial when the scope was centered on target (21 x 6 = 126" at 600 ).

I checked this out on the Norma online ballistics calculator and it's a match if I drop the Black Hills stated velocity by 200 FPS. It showed a huge drop between 500 and 600 as well. I wrote it all down and printed it out for future range visits, but it's in my shooting bag right now so no access.

The M2 62 grain calibrated dial was over the 700 yard mark to get on target. I started with it on 600 thinking it would be close, but it was hitting the ground in front of the target.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:34:11 AM EDT
Black Hills 55 Grain in my rifle
Drop (per calculator)
600y 126 (confirmed zero at this range only)
550y 95.6
500y 71
450y 51
425y 43
400y 35.5
350y 23
300y 14.5
250y 8
200y 3.7
150y 1.1


XM193 (in calculator only, not tested in my rifle)
Drop
600y 107
550y 81
500y 60
450y 43
425y 36
400y 30
350y 20
300y 12
250y 6.7
200y 3
150y .8

XM193 has about 200 FPS more listed velocity than the BH load did in my rifle. They are both close to the same velocity per BH claims. Since M193 is tested in a 20" barrel and BH does not list barrel length or type, I think their velocity is much less when shot in an AR, at least my AR.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:39:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:19:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
Black Hills 55 Grain in my rifle
Drop (per calculator)
600y 126 (confirmed zero at this range only)
550y 95.6
500y 71
450y 51
425y 43
400y 35.5
350y 23
300y 14.5
250y 8
200y 3.7
150y 1.1


XM193 (in calculator only, not tested in my rifle)
Drop
600y 107
550y 81
500y 60
450y 43
425y 36
400y 30
350y 20
300y 12
250y 6.7
200y 3
150y .8

XM193 has about 200 FPS more listed velocity than the BH load did in my rifle. They are both close to the same velocity per BH claims. Since M193 is tested in a 20" barrel and BH does not list barrel length or type, I think their velocity is much less when shot in an AR, at least my AR.



From a 20", XM193 is about 3300 fps, .223 55gr loadings (Black Hills) should be right at 3100. Thus a 200fps difference.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:30:19 PM EDT
XM193 is around 3200 from a 20" barrel per my sources.

Black Hills lists 3150 for the RM 55 grain. I was getting around 200 fps less according to the calculator.

I guess I need a Chronograph to confirm.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:33:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By petagunner:
Damn TF, didn't mean to doubt ya. All the info I could find was listed to 500yds. That's unreal to have as much drop from 100 to 500 as there is from 500 to 600!



you should see the figures for 700, 800 and beyond.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:48:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:01:06 PM EDT
I wanna go shoot at 600 just to see how close my ACOG 600 mark is to the actuall impact. Its low at 300 with XM193.

I would like to try 800 also... that is a long way with a 4X scope...


Mark.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:54:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 12:55:19 AM EDT by Asa]
Shoot it with irons, and no bipod sometime. THEN you can call yourself a real rifleman.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:14:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Asa:
Shoot it with irons, and no bipod sometime. THEN you can call yourself a real rifleman.




Your right... Just shooting targets at 500-600 with irons and no bi-pod makes you a "real rifleman".

I always thought there were other factors involved too... Hmmm...





Mark.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:57:25 AM EDT

The farthest I've ever shot with iron sights was 300 yards in the Army. If we only had more long distance ranges and the opportunity to use them.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:42:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M-60:
Your right... Just shooting targets at 500-600 with irons and no bi-pod makes you a "real rifleman".

I always thought there were other factors involved too... Hmmm...


Oh, there are. But intregrating them with supporting the rifle, and aligning the sights makes it that much more challenging. Try it sometime - you might be surprised.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:52:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Asa:

Originally Posted By M-60:
Your right... Just shooting targets at 500-600 with irons and no bi-pod makes you a "real rifleman".

I always thought there were other factors involved too... Hmmm...


Oh, there are. But intregrating them with supporting the rifle, and aligning the sights makes it that much more challenging. Try it sometime - you might be surprised.



I have. Its quite entertaining. I didn't use optics on my AR til a couple of years ago. Hitting a target at 500-600 with irons is not what I would say qualifies one as a "Real Rifleman". Yes. Its a very good skill to have, but it is not even close to being the most usefull thing a rifleman needs to be able to do. And yes. I think the Marine Corps has a great marksmanship program. I just dont think the Corps are the only way one can be a "Real Rifleman". What is your definition of "Real Rifleman" anyway? I wonder if I would qualify under your standards? Would anyone that has not shot irons at that range qualify? Just curious.

Mark.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 11:12:53 AM EDT
At the 600 yard shoot on Saturday there was a new guy I've seen a few times at the range and at the last Practical Rifle as well. I don't know his name, but he is the enthusiastic guy that tried to shoot the Tec-9 for the pistol stage last match. Yaaah, that was a hoot!

He brought some sort of Mauser bolt action rifle he wanted to shoot at 600 yards using the iron sights But he couldn't get it sighted-in well enough at 300 so Pete (the RO) wouldn’t let him shoot it at 600. Instead, as I recall, he shot a scoped AR at 600 and did alright with it.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:39:44 PM EDT
Nice pics TangoFoxtrot.


Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot:
The farthest I've ever shot with iron sights was 300 yards in the Army. If we only had more long distance ranges and the opportunity to use them.



Me too. But that was several geological eras ago.
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