Posted: 9/15/2015 11:31:56 AM EDT
|
...For you folks who have been there/done that...Let's say you have "X" amount of funds available and your rifle (Colt LE6920) has a stock barrel (1/7, chrome lined), stock upper, stock BCG and cheap glass....
...Where would you put your funds first?....My gut tells me that if you can't see the target or reliably hold zero you aren't precise....but if you can trust your glass but the rounds don't go where you're aiming, precision is shot.....Upper and BCG seems to be the lesser of the evils to precision, but that's an uneducated opinion on my part, not a known fact.... ...Yeah, I caught the bug.... 
|
|
I wouldn't even consider dumping money into your 6920. Its like the financial equivalent of modding a honda accord. It is what it is and it works great if you like it stock. It takes away from any value it may have and you'll want to change everything that makes it a 6920. If you buy a new upper for it, why not just buy a $200 complete lower so you have 2 guns?
The main difference between a precision AR and a 6920 is the Stock, Trigger, Barrel, Gas Block, Handguard. Thats usually 75% of the value of the gun. I favor side charging uppers which the best are currently available from Crosshill Tech. Add a BCM, Seekins, etc rail system. As far as barrels go, I think Rainier has some good barrels at different price points. |
|
Quoted:
I wouldn't even consider dumping money into your 6920. Its like the financial equivalent of modding a honda accord. It is what it is and it works great if you like it stock. It takes away from any value it may have and you'll want to change everything that makes it a 6920. If you buy a new upper for it, why not just buy a $200 complete lower so you have 2 guns? The main difference between a precision AR and a 6920 is the Stock, Trigger, Barrel, Gas Block, Handguard. Thats usually 75% of the value of the gun. I favor side charging uppers which the best are currently available from Crosshill Tech. Add a BCM, Seekins, etc rail system. As far as barrels go, I think Rainier has some good barrels at different price points. What he said. Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. |
|
Quoted:
I wouldn't even consider dumping money into your 6920. Its like the financial equivalent of modding a honda accord. It is what it is and it works great if you like it stock. It takes away from any value it may have and you'll want to change everything that makes it a 6920. If you buy a new upper for it, why not just buy a $200 complete lower so you have 2 guns? The main difference between a precision AR and a 6920 is the Stock, Trigger, Barrel, Gas Block, Handguard. Thats usually 75% of the value of the gun. I favor side charging uppers which the best are currently available from Crosshill Tech. Add a BCM, Seekins, etc rail system. As far as barrels go, I think Rainier has some good barrels at different price points. .....I'm thinking about just what you've pointed out...Why not buy a whole new rifle rather than upgrade what I've already got....However, I failed to mention the 'stock' 6920, isn't really 'stock' anymore at this point....It's already tweaked with a free-float handguard, LaRue MBT (thanks Mark), muzzle break and Roger's Super-Stock (when the 6920 came with them)....so, really the only things still basic 6920 are the barrel, BCG, upper and lower..... ....Granted, all of the good stuff can be shifted (if desired) to a better starting point platform, but if the goal is only a barrel away that would be cheaper than starting over....and a divorce..  ...(No, seriously I've got one of the most understand wives, but there ARE limits....)
|
|
Quoted:
Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. ....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
|
|
Quoted:
Barrel. *****I an not a precision shooter***** But, after watching the guys shoot this weekend, the ones who had good barrels had much better groups, even the rifles that were passed around. 80% of the winners used the stealth. That's impressive ...I was thinking the same... I really liked GaHunter's glass, but putting that over a standard barrel would be like gold plating a Pinto.....but even so-so optics over a good barrel would at least give me a shot at that magic cloverleaf.....Then, when I sell the other kidney and buy better glass, maybe a ragged hole....
|
|
I have a stealth barrel I'm building around, and have heard nothing but the best about them. After this past weekend, I'm actually excited about it bc I saw that it was a nice barrel. Not saying I can even shoot as well as the barrel most likely can, but it's good to know I have something to work towards for next years challenge.
Btw, speaking of divorce. On the way home Sunday, the SO says to me "why didn't you finish that stealth thingy to bring? Isn't that what Mike had that was doing so well?" I said "cause I didn't have the spare money to finish it." She replies, "well why didn't you say something, you could have used money from savings to get what you needed so you could have brought it if that would have made it more fun, and just put it back in the next few weeks." 
I'm still not sure if it was a trap or not. 
|
|
...Yeah, I've had several discussions like that myself....I'll start off with 'I hate to spend the money on xxxxxxx, but...' and before I can finish Meme will say 'But, will it make it better?' or 'Is it what you want?'...'If so, get it'....
...The reason I love her is that she really means it......
|
|
.
The very first thing is the guys finger pulling the trigger, PERIOD! Before spending any money, do you know for sure with a sub-MOA bolt gun you can shoot 1MOA or less? If you can't do that first, no amount of money is going to turn the Colt into a more precise firearm. Notice I didn't say precision firearm because no amount of money can do that, but money spend in certain areas can increase its accurry. But as has been said before, if one wants a precision AR and can already shoot sub-MOA, then it is better to start with a new build then mod an existing AR-15 IMHO. |
|
Quoted:
. The very first thing is the guys finger pulling the trigger, PERIOD! Before spending any money, do you know for sure with a sub-MOA bolt gun you can shoot 1MOA or less? If you can't do that first, no amount of money is going to turn the Colt into a more precise firearm. Notice I didn't say precision firearm because no amount of money can do that, but money spend in certain areas can increase its accurry. But as has been said before, if one wants a precision AR and can already shoot sub-MOA, then it is better to start with a new build then mod an existing AR-15 IMHO. How do you think that colt got a shiny new a larue trigger in it? 
|
|
Quoted:
....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. ....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
Glass. You can't hit what you can't see. A stock 6920 barrel may just surprise you. Barrel next. |
|
As a former highpower service rifle shooter, the following items were typically changed from a stock A2 rifle: 1) barrel 2) handguard (install a free-float handguard tube that looks like stock, but the sling swivel is moved off the front sight tree to the end of the handguard tube) 3) upgrade sights 4) upgrade trigger What doesn't apply for you is adding lead weights (highpower rifles typically weigh 10-15lbs, to reduce recoil in the rapid fire stages). 3 out of 4 of the changes are to the upper, so I'd strongly consider just replacing the upper. |
|
Quoted:
As a former highpower service rifle shooter, the following items were typically changed from a stock A2 rifle: 1) barrel 2) handguard (install a free-float handguard tube that looks like stock, but the sling swivel is moved off the front sight tree to the end of the handguard tube) 3) upgrade sights 4) upgrade trigger What doesn't apply for you is adding lead weights (highpower rifles typically weigh 10-15lbs, to reduce recoil in the rapid fire stages). 3 out of 4 of the changes are to the upper, so I'd strongly consider just replacing the upper. ...I'm on the right track then, at least as far as improving what I got....I've already free floated the handguard and installed a LaRue MBT.....That's what got me to the question....Rather than spend a little on both barrel and glass I know cheap on either is a waste so wanted to pick everyone's brain on which is the most important between the two.... I appreciate the info....it let's me know I haven't wasted my time so far... |
|
Quoted:
. The very first thing is the guys finger pulling the trigger, PERIOD! Before spending any money, do you know for sure with a sub-MOA bolt gun you can shoot 1MOA or less? If you can't do that first, no amount of money is going to turn the Colt into a more precise firearm. Notice I didn't say precision firearm because no amount of money can do that, but money spend in certain areas can increase its accurry. But as has been said before, if one wants a precision AR and can already shoot sub-MOA, then it is better to start with a new build then mod an existing AR-15 IMHO. ...I get what you're saying and agree....To be honest, that's what got me started, the MOA Challenge this past weekend....I got bit by the 'how tight can I get' bug.....I was a little worried I had lost the touch as I haven't shot for any type of score (other than my own opinion) since the rifle team days 30+ years ago and found out that, with an outstanding weapon in my hands, I can still do OK.... 
....Your point is well taken though.....If I couldn't do it with a proven weapon, my first step would definitely be mechanics....Even so, I know I have a lot of skill I need to improve anyway but since that is best done by throwing lead downrange, I'm thinking why not throw it with the best equipment I can manage right now?
|
|
If I had to swrap parts on a stock gun, a barrel, free float handguard (plus gas block) and trigger are the absolute essentials. The rest are conveniences to make it easier but aren't absolutey necessary.
Anymore, I just get the BCM SS410 barreled uppers and call it gun. Easily half MOA with the right ammo and they work out of the box. |
|
Also of note is I have had a white oak barrel that shot horribly and have a palmetto ptac (fn barrel I think) that shoots sub moa. It's not always intuitive and each barrel is unique. Some makers start out great but over time their consistency goes down.
There are very few companies that actually make their own barrels so that is a variable too. I'm certain that larue has a turd come through every now and then but ideally they catch it before it goes out. |
|
Quoted:
As a former highpower service rifle shooter, the following items were typically changed from a stock A2 rifle: 1) barrel 2) handguard (install a free-float handguard tube that looks like stock, but the sling swivel is moved off the front sight tree to the end of the handguard tube) 3) upgrade sights 4) upgrade trigger What doesn't apply for you is adding lead weights (highpower rifles typically weigh 10-15lbs, to reduce recoil in the rapid fire stages). 3 out of 4 of the changes are to the upper, so I'd strongly consider just replacing the upper. I agree. I've built several bench/precision rifles and the barrel, trigger and a free-float handguard make the most difference. Personally, I like stainless barrels. I don't think stainless is really any better but the folks making SS barrels are building premium products and take more care in the product. I have a Noveske 1:7 16" that shoots near 1 MOA and a Rainier 18" 1:8 Ultramatch that easily shoots much better than I do. |
|
Quoted:
Glass. You can't hit what you can't see. A stock 6920 barrel may just surprise you. Barrel next. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. ....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
Glass. You can't hit what you can't see. A stock 6920 barrel may just surprise you. Barrel next. I was accurate at 400m with Del Ton m4 stock 1/9 non chrome barrel stock trigger and bcg. Samson mfg 11" ff rail rainier arms wtx comp and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4. Good glass will help you tighten your groups but it wont do anything for the gun itself. |
|
Quoted:
If I had to swrap parts on a stock gun, a barrel, free float handguard (plus gas block) and trigger are the absolute essentials. The rest are conveniences to make it easier but aren't absolutey necessary. Anymore, I just get the BCM SS410 barreled uppers and call it gun. Easily half MOA with the right ammo and they work out of the box. ...A question about gas blocks....Right now, with the free float I still have the stock FSB installed...I did mill down the free float to make sure there was no contact between the two, but how much does the gas block affect accuracy, or does it?..... ...I like the look of the Bravo Co. uppers though....
|
|
Quoted:
I was accurate at 400m with Del Ton m4 stock 1/9 non chrome barrel stock trigger and bcg. Samson mfg 11" ff rail rainier arms wtx comp and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4. Good glass will help you tighten your groups but it wont do anything for the gun itself. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. ....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
Glass. You can't hit what you can't see. A stock 6920 barrel may just surprise you. Barrel next. I was accurate at 400m with Del Ton m4 stock 1/9 non chrome barrel stock trigger and bcg. Samson mfg 11" ff rail rainier arms wtx comp and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4. Good glass will help you tighten your groups but it wont do anything for the gun itself. Where's that call out thread? you should have brought that to the MOA shoot and proved it and won the trigger! |
|
well, I just upgraded my glass. forsyth had the vortex pst 2-10 for $499. combined that with a husquavarnen chainsaw and I got the saw and the scope for $600 OTD. couldn't pass that up. still cheaper than just the scope from amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-PST-2-5-Riflescope/dp/B003AQMYIC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442610377&sr=8-2&keywords=vortex+2-10 I tried out DocHoliday's 2-10 and was presently surprised with what I could see at 100. so when's the next challenge? |
|
Quoted:
Where's that call out thread? you should have brought that to the MOA shoot and proved it and won the trigger! Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun to my head? Trigger Free Floated rail system Lots of Durka Durkas got their insides exposed to room temperature with stock M4's rocking BM 2 stage triggers in 2006. Link But neither those guys nor anyone here would consider that to be a "precision weapon". Just a better rifle. ....After those two?....I won't put a gun to your head but.....
Glass. You can't hit what you can't see. A stock 6920 barrel may just surprise you. Barrel next. I was accurate at 400m with Del Ton m4 stock 1/9 non chrome barrel stock trigger and bcg. Samson mfg 11" ff rail rainier arms wtx comp and a Vortex Viper PST 1-4. Good glass will help you tighten your groups but it wont do anything for the gun itself. Where's that call out thread? you should have brought that to the MOA shoot and proved it and won the trigger! I wanted to make it but we where in Destin... Now I said accurate that setup was good but not what I would call "precision". But now with a 14.5 1/8 rainier arms ultra match .223 wylde I would like to bench rest it and see what it will do. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |