Posted: 3/9/2012 10:15:50 AM EDT
 |
|
Quoted:
the video confuses me....in the start, it seems likes hes chasing a white car, and the red car is pulled over....then the red car gets behind and shoots out the back window? what happened to the white car? It looked like he passed the red car while chasing the white car, at which point the red car shot at him. I want to know why they didnt light him up when he started shooting when they had him surrounded. |
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years....
|
|
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. Easy, just speculating. I agree the world would be a better place if they perforated him, but they didn't. And the fact that the suspect shot at the police car - I would have assumed they would return fire - but again they didn't, and I'm doubting they flipped a coin to decide, so surely there was a reason that neither of us is seeing. And re: hitting a house, I wasn't suggesting a single officer (or multiple for that matter) would miss so bad they hit a house taking an aimed shot, but when you get into a situation where lots of people start blasting at the car, lots of chances for rounds to start exploring. Again, nobody has presented the real "why" yet, so I made a guess. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Who knows what their thinking was. |
|
Police are so conditioned by training and experience to try to make an arrest and be wary of shooting at somebody, I think sometimes they put themselves in danger because they are afraid to pull the trigger. The bad guy could have easily shot 2 or 3 people before they figured it out.
Heres a NSFW video of a guy who police underestimate. 4:05 is where it starts and 7:25 is the SHTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eexGDSsJn9c&feature=player_embedded#! I think this is referenced in all training as evidence of the 21 foot drill. |
|
Quoted: holy shit....Police are so conditioned by training and experience to try to make an arrest and be wary of shooting at somebody, I think sometimes they put themselves in danger because they are afraid to pull the trigger. The bad guy could have easily shot 2 or 3 people before they figured it out. Heres a NSFW video of a guy who police underestimate. 4:05 is where it starts and 7:25 is the SHTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eexGDSsJn9c&feature=player_embedded#! I think this is referenced in all training as evidence of the 21 foot drill. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. Easy, just speculating. I agree the world would be a better place if they perforated him, but they didn't. And the fact that the suspect shot at the police car - I would have assumed they would return fire - but again they didn't, and I'm doubting they flipped a coin to decide, so surely there was a reason that neither of us is seeing. And re: hitting a house, I wasn't suggesting a single officer (or multiple for that matter) would miss so bad they hit a house taking an aimed shot, but when you get into a situation where lots of people start blasting at the car, lots of chances for rounds to start exploring. Again, nobody has presented the real "why" yet, so I made a guess. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Who knows what their thinking was. Sorry to jump on you. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. Easy, just speculating. I agree the world would be a better place if they perforated him, but they didn't. And the fact that the suspect shot at the police car - I would have assumed they would return fire - but again they didn't, and I'm doubting they flipped a coin to decide, so surely there was a reason that neither of us is seeing. And re: hitting a house, I wasn't suggesting a single officer (or multiple for that matter) would miss so bad they hit a house taking an aimed shot, but when you get into a situation where lots of people start blasting at the car, lots of chances for rounds to start exploring. Again, nobody has presented the real "why" yet, so I made a guess. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Who knows what their thinking was. Sorry to jump on you. No worries man, I don't have my panties all in a bind over it. I hear ya loud and clear, and I agree with your points. I think the guy was totally smoke-able, just thinkin out loud as to possible reasons. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. Easy, just speculating. I agree the world would be a better place if they perforated him, but they didn't. And the fact that the suspect shot at the police car - I would have assumed they would return fire - but again they didn't, and I'm doubting they flipped a coin to decide, so surely there was a reason that neither of us is seeing. And re: hitting a house, I wasn't suggesting a single officer (or multiple for that matter) would miss so bad they hit a house taking an aimed shot, but when you get into a situation where lots of people start blasting at the car, lots of chances for rounds to start exploring. Again, nobody has presented the real "why" yet, so I made a guess. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Who knows what their thinking was. Sorry to jump on you. No worries man, I don't have my panties all in a bind over it. I hear ya loud and clear, and I agree with your points. I think the guy was totally smoke-able, just thinkin out loud as to possible reasons. I have watched the video several times to ensure that I caught the subtle little things in it from an officer safety/lethal force point of view. When he did fire at them after being stopped the could have definitely returned fire into the vehicle. For an unknown reason (to us at least) they chose not. The officers have to clear all backstops (houses, cars, pedestrians etc) before they fire. The officers cannot just open fire on a stop vehicle because the driver had previously fired into a vehicle, as much as I wished they could. You made a statement about an officer hitting a house, its not hitting a house, its hitting a house, entering the house and striking Little Timmy or Grandma watching Regis, that alone is a nightmare on many levels. When he exited the vehicle for a moment they could have less lethaled him with bean bags,tasers etc, but unless he pointed a gun at them etc they would have been tried and hung in the court of public opinion for a questionable shoot. These are just a few of my observations from an LEO Officer Survival Instructor. I saw many WTF moments in here, no question, but I think if any of the officers had met the necessary requirements for SCMPD use of lethal force under Graham v Conner there would have been a much drastic outcome. Obviously the 20+ guys on scene saw something we didnt see on youtube. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My question is why did they not engage the target!!! He fired how many rounds at them. Then when finally stopped he fires again. And stops probably because he was out of ammo. Now we have to PAY for this POS to sit in prison...What would have happened if he had hit one of the blue light specials or a bystander...Who would be taking care of them for those 40 years.... I have no idea why trained marksman (the police) chose to move their cars forward and block the suspects car in, instead of using their skills to their advantage and fire from a distance. Im not sure why they didnt fill that car full of holes, since deadly force was justified. Bad tactics!!!! Glad they didnt get killed. Lots of houses around there, including behind the guy and his car. And I suppose the guys behind the patrol car to the left couldn't have gotten a clear shot? Maybe they aren't so trained. I suppose it was safer for the suspect to shoot at the PD car? I'm sure he wasn't concerned about what was beyond the PD car. Maybe the suspect could have just drove away, since they allowed him to get back in the car and close the door, and they could have been chased by the suspect again. Yes, the public would have been much safer with PD cars driving at high speeds all over the city with a suspect shooting at them than for a "trained" police officer to take a shot from 10 yards away.......after all, the officer may hit a house. Easy, just speculating. I agree the world would be a better place if they perforated him, but they didn't. And the fact that the suspect shot at the police car - I would have assumed they would return fire - but again they didn't, and I'm doubting they flipped a coin to decide, so surely there was a reason that neither of us is seeing. And re: hitting a house, I wasn't suggesting a single officer (or multiple for that matter) would miss so bad they hit a house taking an aimed shot, but when you get into a situation where lots of people start blasting at the car, lots of chances for rounds to start exploring. Again, nobody has presented the real "why" yet, so I made a guess. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Who knows what their thinking was. Sorry to jump on you. No worries man, I don't have my panties all in a bind over it. I hear ya loud and clear, and I agree with your points. I think the guy was totally smoke-able, just thinkin out loud as to possible reasons. I have watched the video several times to ensure that I caught the subtle little things in it from an officer safety/lethal force point of view. When he did fire at them after being stopped the could have definitely returned fire into the vehicle. For an unknown reason (to us at least) they chose not. The officers have to clear all backstops (houses, cars, pedestrians etc) before they fire. The officers cannot just open fire on a stop vehicle because the driver had previously fired into a vehicle, as much as I wished they could. You made a statement about an officer hitting a house, its not hitting a house, its hitting a house, entering the house and striking Little Timmy or Grandma watching Regis, that alone is a nightmare on many levels. When he exited the vehicle for a moment they could have less lethaled him with bean bags,tasers etc, but unless he pointed a gun at them etc they would have been tried and hung in the court of public opinion for a questionable shoot. These are just a few of my observations from an LEO Officer Survival Instructor. I saw many WTF moments in here, no question, but I think if any of the officers had met the necessary requirements for SCMPD use of lethal force under Graham v Conner there would have been a much drastic outcome. Obviously the 20+ guys on scene saw something we didnt see on youtube. That's what I was getting at, yeah. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
holy shit....
Police are so conditioned by training and experience to try to make an arrest and be wary of shooting at somebody, I think sometimes they put themselves in danger because they are afraid to pull the trigger. The bad guy could have easily shot 2 or 3 people before they figured it out. Heres a NSFW video of a guy who police underestimate. 4:05 is where it starts and 7:25 is the SHTF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eexGDSsJn9c&feature=player_embedded#! I think this is referenced in all training as evidence of the 21 foot drill. +1 |
| How about those "trained" officers who work for the best police force on Earth, NYPD, who took 41 shots at a guy 10' away, holding a cell phone, and only hit him a few times? So much for l.e. training?? I'd have preferred a dead perp in the GA case; however, what the cops chose to do worked. Hard to argue with that. |
|
Most cops only shoot to qualify and are an okay shot. I have met some police marksmen before, but they are few and far between. Normally when the adrenaline is pumping and someone has shot at a fellow officer, it more often results in a shooting as people want to get the bad guy that put their fellow officers in harms way. I see no reason why they didn't light up that car and kill the perp. Plenty of opportunity and he even fired from the car when they first stopped him.
I would have gladly shot his ass, as he was a serious threat. |
| In Florida several years ago they had a guy shoot and kill and officer and his K9. The next day they found the guy under some wood pile, SWAT and officers shot and killed him like 68x's. I will never forget the comments of Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd. A reporter asked "Sheriff how do you explain your officers shooting in excess 68 rounds and killing the suspect while under the wood pile?" His response " Sir, our officers fired approximately 68 rounds simply because that's all the bullets they had!" This statement couldn't have been stated any better!!! He was a no bullshit guy! |