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Posted: 12/11/2003 6:00:51 AM EDT
I'm going to be getting a 1911 very soon, probably before xmas.
It looks like I'll be dumping almost 700 bucks on it which is a bit out of my price range.

I talked to the wife and she recommended I sell my Ruger P89 9mm to offset the cost of the Kimber but I wasn't too keen on that idea, that's my baby and I've had it for years without a single issue whatsoever.

Should I say 'ok honey, I'll sell it after I get the Kimber, we don't want to be without protection' and convieniently forget

or

Sell the Ruger to offset the cost? I've got lots of hicap mags for the Ruger and a cross draw holster setup and I could probably get about 500 for the whole kit and kaboodle.

decisions decisions

Help!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:10:17 AM EDT
Keep it.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:40:18 AM EDT
Man, I traded my DAD my Ruger P85 for a Shotgun(Grandfathers) and crappy .32 knowing I'd get the P85 back once he croaked...It was my second pistol that I bought from the original owner(fellow gun nut). I wish I hadn't. He is still going, like the Energizer bunny. I need to buy him something and trade back. It has a high cap mag too.

In conclusion...keep it, or sell it to me to give my Dad.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:40:24 AM EDT
For sure keep it. If you sell it, you won't get what it's really worth and you'll only regret it later. Trust me, put the Kimber on layaway or wait until you have the cash. Do NOT sell a gun that you actually use and like. Now, if you had said this was a gun you never shoot and didn't see yourself shooting in the next year or two I say sell it.

Now, if you decide you just want to dump a few of the hicaps, I might be interested.

Seriously, I'd find some other way to fund the Kimber. You have any other stuff you could sell?
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:43:49 AM EDT
i sold my mint colt preban several weeks ago to fund a new tile floor. "unexpected bill" showed up, used the money to pay it. no gun, no tile floor.



moral of the story: keep the gun
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:48:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 6:51:21 AM EDT by gilfrd]
I could sell my body to hot chicks only but I dont think I'd be able to pay for in in this lifetime.

I sure hope she forgets

I hope I have made the right choice in the Kimber as well, there are SO many 1911 clones out there, almost as bad as AR clones!

edited to ask: if anyone already has a Kimber Ultra 2 please bring it to the show so I can manhandle it.

Here's to hoping I made a good decision on the Ultra 2

Pro Carry 2 or Ultra 2? What would you do?

Nice, hijacked my own thread.

Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:28:06 AM EDT
Buy both!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 7:43:28 AM EDT
yeah, right!!!

I would be kicked to the curb in an instant! The more I look the more I think I'm gonna stuick with the Ultra 2. It is just more tactical!!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 8:19:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gilfrd:
Pro Carry 2 or Ultra 2? What would you do?

I'd buy a ParaOrdnance P14.45, that's what I'd do.

Oh wait, I already did!

Now I'll have to buy another so I can go for the double shoulder rig.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:06:10 AM EDT
I looked at it and it is a bit too big for what I want it for, just carry.

I do like the hicap mags but I think I'll just hold onto my P89 for that.

You coming out to the show reject? If so I'll bring that shot with me.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:08:33 AM EDT
Pro Carry Series 1. Look on Gunsamerica. I got a stainless one in perfect condition for $625 shipped, including a galco leather holster, spare CMC ambi safety, and CMC 10 round powermag, about 2 months ago. Awesome gun!

The Series 1's are better guns IMO. Check it out.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 9:41:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 9:44:42 AM EDT by Ghost-Shooter]
I would vote keep the Ruger and get the Pro Carry II. Most of the problems from the series II system/extractor/etc have stemmed from the really compact guns. The mid to full sized guns are usually pretty good. Where are you getting it from?

Hi-jack: OOOOOOOHHHHHH boy, my Kimber Pro Carry II is due in any day now. I'm so excited.

Ghost
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:03:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gilfrd:
You coming out to the show reject? If so I'll bring that shot with me.

My magic 8 ball says, "Outlook not good."

I'll be unpacking. Still.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:12:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter:
I would vote keep the Ruger and get the Pro Carry II. Most of the problems from the series II system/extractor/etc have stemmed from the really compact guns. The mid to full sized guns are usually pretty good. Where are you getting it from?

Hi-jack: OOOOOOOHHHHHH boy, my Kimber Pro Carry II is due in any day now. I'm so excited.

Ghost




Maybe I'll be getting it from GAcop in Newnan. I haven't heard of extractor issues with the smaller frame modles, is that what anykey was referring to?

Is the Series 1 better than the Series 2? What are the differences?

GREAT! another thing to look into, and here I thought hunting for my first AR15 was hard!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:38:44 AM EDT
You might want to go lurk on 1911forums.com for a few days. Lots of good info there. The difference between the Series I and the Series II is the "Schwartz safety" present on the Series II, which is a firing pin safety that is deactivated by the grip safety. Series I's do not have this system, and is the way JMB designed the frame of the 1911. The safety works through a transfer pin in the frame that pushes up the safety lock on the slide. The problem that people have with this is that sometimes this transfer pin dosen't want to come down (or when the gun is shot upside down, it stays in the up position) and causes FTRBs. The big issue with short slide (3" barrel) guns is that their firing cycle is too fast and sometimes can cause jams because the round hasn't completely left the mag, or has FTRBs. Kimbers aren't the only 1911s that do this, Springfield Armory's do that also with their short slide guns. Also, another weakness of the 1911 in modern manufacturing is the internal extractor. The internal extractor is a piece of spring steel that has a hook on the end of it. It workes by providing both the spring tension and the extractor in one part. In years past, they were hand tuned, and worked well, but nowadays, they don't get tuned, and don't extract well. Many would recommend the Wilson Combat Bulletproof extractor for this application, and tune it yourself. There are places online where they teach you how to tune the extractor. Also, the newest batches of Kimbers have external extractors, which look like the ones on a AR, which are activated by a separate spring, and the hand tuning of the tension is not important. If you do get an internal extractor gun, read up on the tuning. Good mags, like for any other gun, help tremendously. I personally like Wilson Combat 47Ds (8 rounds) but people also like Metalforms, CMCs, and Novaks. I've never had a problem with the Series II parts, the extractor, or the WC 47Ds I put in my old Custom II.

Ghost
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:57:43 AM EDT
I've got over 1200 rounds through my Kimber Custom II without any problems. Like Ghost-Shooter, I like the 47D mags. They have been flawless for me.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 12:34:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 12:44:17 PM EDT by gilfrd]
How easy is it to conceal? I'm looking for an everyday carry that is inconspicuous (or course) and comfortable to be worn either on the leg or inside the belt.
I don't want anything that is going to be bulky at all, the smaller the better. I did read where that safety issue keeps the gun from firing upside down and that's not good. You never know when or where you are going to use a CCW and I don't want to be the only guy on the monkey bars that is out of luck..... you never know.

I'm taking Ghosts advice and checking out the 1911forums but like here at arfcom, there is LOTS of information.

I appreciate you guys' input more than those at 1911forums since most of y'all have proven yourselves very learned.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:24:02 PM EDT
I have a full sixe 1911A1 that is very easy to conceal.......in my truck!

I always thought the full size guns are tough to hide unless you shop in the big and tall men's store.

I really don't like those new safties that have been added to the 1911 design, not needed, and could potentially take the gun out of action at the worst moment.

There are some really good 1911 smiths that can make a quality factory 1911 every bit as good as a Kimber. If you go that route, no need to sell the 9mm. Buy the gun for a few less bucks, build your cash back up, and send the gun off to become what you really want.

If you need someone who can really make a 1911 sing, let me know, I will dig my guy's number up.

Come to CE Sat and you can try one out.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:56:59 PM EDT
I'm going to come by the funshow, I gotta get something quick! I have no idea why.

ar-wrench, I like your thinking. I've been doing more research and I'm starting to move away from the Kimbers for a few reasons.

1. more expensive
2. silly safeties
3. Reliability issues

My P89's only safety is ME and that's the way I want it. Sure it has a decocker but that is just for show I guess, I never use it. Why in the heck would anyone want a triple mechanical safety? Geez! If I'm sleepin and BG comes in, I do not want to be fumbling around with safeties, I want to point and click('POW' actually, 'click' would suck)

Is there a 1911 out there that only has a decocker like the Ruger P89?

If not I am leaning towards the Colt or the Springfield because I can spend a few hundred dollars on bling for the Springfield and the Colt, well, everybody likes Colt and it will retain it's value more, just like a Colt AR15.


Show me the errors of my ways.

Let's talk, ar-wrench.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:01:19 PM EDT
I'll let you try my Kimber and my SA Milspec. I already know which one you'll like better.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 2:10:37 PM EDT
Howdy Bookhound,

I think I know which one you mean. Is it an in the hand feeling or is it something more mechanical like fitting uppers with lowers?

If y'all dont watch it, I'm going to leave the show with a 1911.

I'm going to get all I can before then from the wife because odds are, there wont be much for xmas after I get this.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 4:24:52 PM EDT
Gilfrd,

I tend toward a pistol that ranks reliability as #1. All my research is 15 years old now, but most still applies.

The standard 1911A1 is a very good platform. The improvements I wanted were simple. Lowered and flared ejection port, mainly because I reload. And the barrel and ramp set up to handle anything I wanted to feed it.

Then custom tune the recoil spring to the load I intend to use the most. This was easy, just change the spring to a different weight untill I got the desired ejection pattern.

I have never had the Bite problem, so did not go the bevertail route, can be added later if need be.

Milspec slide and barrel (chrome lined) fitted to frame. Not target tight, but not GI sloppy either.

Lastly, only Wilson Combat mags.

Gun is very accurate, and works 100%
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 5:40:51 PM EDT
If you look around you can find a Series I Kimber Custom in the $600 range. Bullseye had one or two recently I hear. I own 3 Series I's and wouldn't own a Series II. But that's just me.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 6:50:40 PM EDT
I think you should keep it...

N­ot! Sell the damn thing!
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 3:34:34 AM EDT
Dump it, you can always get another boat anchor from Bass Pro shops

VSP
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:05:20 AM EDT
gilfrd, I was talking more about feeling than anything. However, there are some things I like more on the SA than the Kimber. Overall though I like the Kimber much better. I haven't had any problems out of the SA either and have about 500 rounds through it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:22:09 AM EDT
Sell it?! Anchor?!

There is nothing more reliable than a Ruger. Sure, it's a bit bulky but so am I. I was actually looking at that Ruger P97, bargain price but again, bulky even for a 45.

btw, I got the PO signed for 600+/- so that is my budget, I really want to keep my 9.


Book, is your Kimber series 2 or 1? I see they are re-releasing the Kimber Series 1 as the 'classic design'. I'm sure that is just to make more $$ for the Kimber folks... which is ok, nothing wrong with a little capitalism.
I've read stories about the series 2 that make me a little hesitant on buying one, I'll decide this weekend.

Anyone got a holster that fits under your arm? I've read that there is a holster that will fit so you can conceal under a 1911 under your t-shirt, Snopes didn't have anything on it so it must be true, I WANT ONE!
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:31:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 4:32:00 AM EDT by Bradd_D]

Originally Posted By gilfrd:
Sell it?! Anchor?!

There is nothing more reliable than a Ruger. Sure, it's a bit bulky but so am I. I was actually looking at that Ruger P97, bargain price but again, bulky even for a 45.

btw, I got the PO signed for 600+/- so that is my budget, I really want to keep my 9.


Book, is your Kimber series 2 or 1? I see they are re-releasing the Kimber Series 1 as the 'classic design'. I'm sure that is just to make more $$ for the Kimber folks... which is ok, nothing wrong with a little capitalism.
I've read stories about the series 2 that make me a little hesitant on buying one, I'll decide this weekend.

Anyone got a holster that fits under your arm? I've read that there is a holster that will fit so you can conceal under a 1911 under your t-shirt, Snopes didn't have anything on it so it must be true, I WANT ONE!



If they are releasing the series I again, get that. The series II works fine, but there have been rare instances of parts breaking and guns being nonfunctional. Series II is unnecessary, unless you prefer a firing pin safety, so why take the risk.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 4:34:58 AM EDT
Great point, I prefer NO mechanical safety at all, that is why I chose the P89 in the first place.

I have no kids and I dont drink to oblivion so I dont want/need extra safeties.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:03:15 AM EDT
My Kimber is a Series II. There was a thread over on 1911forums about a guy who did everything you could to try to make his series II fail; he even fired his gun upside down. He couldn’t get it to fail. I decided I wanted to try one for myself. For every guy out there saying he wouldn’t trust one of the series IIs, I found a number of people actually using the pistols without problems.

Look, every safety is a mechanical device that could break or fail. Your AR could fail for a variety of reasons. I have shot over 1200 rounds through my Kimber without a single failure, and this includes some hollow points. At some point, I have to start trusting the thing and right now, I do trust it. I’ve shot several thousand rounds through my Bushmaster M4-gery. Does that mean the next time I pull the trigger I it’s 100% guaranteed to work?

However, it does make sense to use equipment that lessens the chance of a failure (which is why I only shoot good quality ARs with good quality ammo). Maybe there is a greater chance of failure with the Series II pistols. Don’t let your decision be based on cost though. If you feel like a Series I is what you really want/need, don’t settle for a series II.

I’m still new at this 1911 game. People like Mayo have been around competitive shooting and have a lot of first-hand knowledge. Talk to people like him to really find out the pros and cons to will help you make up your mind.

I don’t think the Ruger is a boat anchor though. They are big and bulky and NOT what I’d carry as a CCW weapon, but they are built like tanks. My P93-DC will take any ammo you give it and has never one time failed. I’ve shot many, many thousands of rounds through the pistol in the 7 years I’ve owned it without any failures of any kind.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 6:42:11 AM EDT
Hell, if bad ammo causes failures, then Lorraine should have failed THOUSANDS of times. Nope, I would have remembered that. Twice...maybe and once was a double feed. Hmmmmm, maybe it is just a myth about Wolf. I should probably contact Snopes about it.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 7:00:59 AM EDT
Bookhound brings up a good point. The series II failures are few and far between. Of the failures that occur, the one I am most concerned about is the one where the piece in the slide breaks and the gun is completely disabled. It's not just unsafe, but unusable. If Kimber would make the piece out of tool steel instead of MIM, I may not be concerned at all. The lever in the frame doesn't bother me at all.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 8:13:32 AM EDT
Gilfrd,
Yeah, I called it a boat anchor, and by your own admission, you agree. Your original post requested help trying to decide to keep it or sell it. My response seems to have answered your question, "I really want to keep it". Sounds like you made your decision.

My characterization of the Ruger P-series is still accurate. While I agree they are very reliable, so are most other 9's. Sig, Beretta, Glock, HK, are all extremely reliable. I would even say more than a Ruger, but that's a different subject. The Ruger is overweight, oversized, the ergonomics are horrible, the sights are mediocre, the trigger feels like a rake being pulled through gravel, and it has more sharp edges, nooks, and crannies to catch, cut, or scrap you than just about any other gun. I would recommend you sell it and increase your budget so you can get a nice Kimber with some of the available upgrades, like checkering, sights, magwells, or just buy about 10 magazines and a couple of cases of ammo and get in some good practice. I think once you get used to your Kimber, you'll never go back to the Ruger.

VSP
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:04:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2003 9:06:06 AM EDT by gilfrd]
I have made MY decision, but my wife's is another story.
VSP, What are your opinions with Series 1 vs Series 2 in regards to the Kimbers?

If you had a choice, what 1911 would you get?
Full sized or compact?
Kimber or other?
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 9:30:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VSP:
I think once you get used to your Kimber, you'll never go back to the Ruger.



This is VERY true. I shot the Ruger P93 this Tuesday. The ONLY reason I took it to the range was because I hadn't shot the pistol since I got my Kimber!

Well, it also let me shoot a little cheaper than the .45s cost to run. But since getting the Kimber, very few other pistol end up going to the range.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 10:10:42 AM EDT
Gilfrd,
I personally don't have any experience with the series II Kimbers, but I do have a Series I. From my understanding of the Series II, when the grip safety is engaged, it disengages the firing pin safety block allowing the firing pin to strike the primer. My only concern would be making sure my different shooting grips (freestyle, strong hand only, weak hand only) would always disengage the firing pin safety by depressing the grip safety far enough. The only way you'll know that is through some live fire drills. If you can meet someone or borrow a series II, that's what I would check out first. Most likely you won't have any problems, but that would be my biggest concern. If it helps, I'm in the market for a Kimber with the new light rail, I think its the TLE and I am not worried about the Series II safeties.

As far as full size or compact, I've never liked the compact 1911's. The 1911 was designed around the 5" barrel and slide. I would stay with the full size and get some experience with the 1911's before I started shooting the smaller ones. The single action design is a premier design, but it also demands more respect with respect to firearms handling skills. Concealing a 1911 is not that difficult, especially in the cool weather, but during the hot/humid summer it will take an extraordinary effort keep it concealed. Most of the 1911's size is in the barrel length, with is inside the holster anyway. A commander length gun only shortens the slide, not the frame. Get the full size, I think you'll like it better.

VSP
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 10:13:09 AM EDT
1911's suck.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 10:39:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ByteTheBullet:
1911's suck.


ByteTheBullet (-:



You are going to Hell.

ARH
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 10:43:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARH:

Originally Posted By ByteTheBullet:
1911's suck.


ByteTheBullet (-:



You are going to Hell.

ARH



I will be waiting for you!


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 1:43:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ByteTheBullet:

Originally Posted By ARH:

Originally Posted By ByteTheBullet:
1911's suck.


ByteTheBullet (-:



You are going to Hell.

ARH



I will be waiting for you with bells on!


ByteTheBullet (-:



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