Posted: 3/9/2012 1:19:10 PM EDT
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Yet again the questions arise: Is it legal now to carry concealed in a bank? I read over the brief from the AG's office after the 2011 changes and did not see financial institutions listed - unless I missed it reading that thing.
Someone posted earlier that we can't but I was thinking it had been changed. I know we didn't get the restaurant/alcohol sales carry and we did get State Parks, keeping it in locked containers in locked car in previously prohibited places. So can anyone help me remember if bank concealed carry is legal now? |
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Bank carry is legal, unless the bank has put up a sign prohibiting it.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v6.pdf see: SECTION 14. G.S. 14-415.11 |
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I have a question. I currently hold a CCW for MN. MN and NC have no reciprocity. I wish to relocate to NC. (Raleigh/Durham) area. I have been thinking about applying for the FL non-resident CCW permit before I move. (that way I can legally carry until i get a NC permit)
If I understand the NC application, I must be a resident for 30 days before applying. So...in that time I could not carry. Anyone know any differently? Actually, it looks like the FL non-residential permit is NOT honored in NC. |
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Quoted:
I have a question. I currently hold a CCW for MN. MN and NC have no reciprocity. I wish to relocate to NC. (Raleigh/Durham) area. I have been thinking about applying for the FL non-resident CCW permit before I move. (that way I can legally carry until i get a NC permit) If I understand the NC application, I must be a resident for 30 days before applying. So...in that time I could not carry. Anyone know any differently? Actually, it looks like the FL non-residential permit is NOT honored in NC. NC, as of Dec. 1st, 2011, honors permits from all states, regardless of reciprocity agreements. Provided your MN permit is still good (as far as MN is concerned) when you move to NC, then it is valid in NC. North Carolina doesn't have any law that requires you have a NC permit, even if you are a NC resident, to carry concealed in North Carolina, you just have to have a valid permit from somewhere. I have a friend with a Virginia non-resident permit and carries based on that even though he has been a NC resident for years, and never a resident of Virginia. The big advantage to having a NC CHP once you become a resident is firearms purchasing. A permit is required for each handgun you buy in NC, but having a CHP negates that requirement. The NC CHP also means that dealers don't have to do a call-in NICS check on longgun purchases. NC Firearms Laws |
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This is the ONLY site I would trust for reciprocity.
http://ncdoj.gov/getdoc/19be6294-bfbf-4875-bbef-ac2ebb6f47b2/2-6-3-6-3-Concealed-Weapon-Reciprocity.aspx as it comes straight from the NCDOJ, well it actually IS the NC Department of Justice. It is the authority that we CCH instructors go to for certification and answers to questions such as yours. I have actually emailed this question to the State instructors (who I get certifed from) for some clarification. I will post this answer when I receive it. In the mean time this is what MY reply would be: I would think that if you are moving down here from another state it would be PRUDENT to get a CCH from NC. I think you may have a difficult time "proving" to any officer on the street that your MN CCH is valid here in NC when you have a current NC ID that does NOT match the CCH you are presenting. |
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Quoted:
This is the ONLY site I would trust for reciprocity. http://ncdoj.gov/getdoc/19be6294-bfbf-4875-bbef-ac2ebb6f47b2/2-6-3-6-3-Concealed-Weapon-Reciprocity.aspx as it comes straight from the NCDOJ, well it actually IS the NC Department of Justice. It is the authority that we CCH instructors go to for certification and answers to questions such as yours. I have actually emailed this question to the State instructors (who I get certifed from) for some clarification. I will post this answer when I receive it. In the mean time this is what MY reply would be: I would think that if you are moving down here from another state it would be PRUDENT to get a CCH from NC. I think you may have a difficult time "proving" to any officer on the street that your MN CCH is valid here in NC when you have a current NC ID that does NOT match the CCH you are presenting. I don't disagree that it makes things a lot easier to have a NC Permit as a NC resident, but there isn't anything on the books that says you have to have a NC permit as a NC resident. You can be mistakenly charged with anything, that doesn't make the charge valid, though it would obviously be a headache. The North Carolina "Blue Book" (a guide for common offenses in NC for LEOs) lists the following about carrying a concealed gun: 14-269(a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willifully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:
(1)The person is on the person's own premises (2)The deadly weapon is a handgun, and the person has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under 14-415.24. (3)The deadly weapon is a handgun, and the person is a military permittee as defined under 14-415.10(2a) who provides to the law enforcement officer proof of deployment as required under 14-415.11(a). 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits. (a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina. (b)repealed (c) Every 12 months after the effective date of this subsection, the Department of Justice shall make written inquiry of the concealed handgun permitting authorities in each other state as to: (i) whether a North Carolina resident may carry a concealed handgun in their state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit and (ii) whether a North Carolina resident may apply for a concealed handgun permit in that state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit. The Department of Justice shall attempt to secure from each state permission for North Carolina residents who hold a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in that state, either on the basis of the North Carolina permit or on the basis that the North Carolina permit is sufficient to permit the issuance of a similar license or permit by the other state." |
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Hi Gents.
Petard, NC law requires you to change your drivers license and vehicle registration with in thirty days of relocating to NC. If you want to know NC law I suggest you read it from the site Blammer listed, or right out of the NC General statutes. They are on line. NCGS While the statutes listed in the post above are valid, they leave out some things. 14 415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit. (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer. LINK So you must present a valid ID with your permit. After 30 days that means your NC Drivers license because your old ID is no longer valid because you now live in NC and are subject to NC law. If your MI permit does not reflect you new NC address any prudent officer is going to start checking and asking questions. You can apply for your NC permit after residing 30 days. Gee that seems to fit together for some reason. I have a friend with a Virginia non-resident permit and carries based on that even though he has been a NC resident for years, and never a resident of Virginia.
Yup and when something goes bad, like the kind of thing you CCH for, He will go from I am working the system to I wish I had just taken the class because he is going to get a ton more scrutiny than someone who resides in NC and has an NC permit. Hell I dont know the guy and I am wondering why he does it that way. NOI |
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Another question, not specifically CCH but it came up in class...
Am I insane, or did previous deadly force laws specify sexaul assault as grounds for justified deadly force? I just re-took the class because I was a bonehead and waited too long to apply after the last time I took the class, and this time I noticed that the wording regarding deadly force did NOT list sexual assault. Instead it now simply says imminent threat of death or great bodily injury. So I wonder if sexual assault would fit under bodily injury or if shooting a rapist who's assaulting your wife is no longer justifiable... |
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Current statute
14‑51.3. Use of force in defense of person; relief from criminal or civil liability. (a) A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat in any place he or she has the lawful right to be if either of the following applies: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another. (2) Under the circumstances permitted pursuant to G.S. 14‑51.2. (b) A person who uses force as permitted by this section is justified in using such force and is immune from civil or criminal liability for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman who was lawfully acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer or bail bondsman identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman in the lawful performance of his or her official duties. (2011‑268, s. 1.) I took BLET in 86 and sexual assault was not listed from then till the castle doctrine changes a couple of years back. It was always this 1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.
NOI |
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Quoted:
I took BLET in 86 and sexual assault was not listed from then till the castle doctrine changes a couple of years back. It was always this The veracity of the following is not confirmed, but this was excerpted from the DOJ CCH class guide in 2007: Excerpted from the North Carolina, Concealed Carry Handgun Training Manual, Published by the North Carolina Justice Academy, Written by Inst. Steve Johnson: 1) North Carolina Common Law Use of force to protect a person (1) Justified Self-Defense A citizen is legally justified in using deadly force against another only if: (a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault and (b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force was necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, and (c) The person using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, and (d) Force used was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor. That turned up in a google search on the website for WSOC TV64 in Charlotte. So back when I took the NC course the first time, Sexual Assault WAS listed as grounds for deadly force... Guess I'll have to contact the DOJ directly for clarification... I KNEW I'd seen that previously... wonder when this was changed (apparently some time between 2007 and now)... |
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NC Common law still has the phrase "The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault..."
Statute law is based on the definition of sexual assault as "A “sexual assault” would include rape, sexual offense, or forcible crime against nature or attempts to do any such act. (NCPI Crim. 308.70, FN 1)" The new "Red Book" that is written by the NC Justice Academy gives this added explanation. "*Not all sexual assaults justify the use of deadly force. Much of the law on justified self defense in North Carolina was written before the Legislature redefined sexual offenses in this state. Basically, there are two categories of sexual offenses: 1) “rape,” and 2) “sexual assaults.” Therefore, if it is not rape it is sexual assault. Many sexual assault offenses do not meet the standard for inclusion in the justified self-defense formula. ONLY sexual assaults that have a risk of death or great bodily harm should be included." |
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Quoted:
So you must present a valid ID with your permit. After 30 days that means your NC Drivers license because your old ID is no longer valid because you now live in NC and are subject to NC law. If your MI permit does not reflect you new NC address any prudent officer is going to start checking and asking questions. You can apply for your NC permit after residing 30 days. Gee that seems to fit together for some reason. I have a friend with a Virginia non-resident permit and carries based on that even though he has been a NC resident for years, and never a resident of Virginia.
Yup and when something goes bad, like the kind of thing you CCH for, He will go from I am working the system to I wish I had just taken the class because he is going to get a ton more scrutiny than someone who resides in NC and has an NC permit. Hell I dont know the guy and I am wondering why he does it that way. NOI I don't disagree with you that he would likely attract more attention and scrutiny than someone with a NC CHP, but the fact remains that no statute requires that a NC resident have a NC CHP. If the general assembly wanted NC residents to only be able to carry with a NC CHP, they should have written that into the law. They didn't, and no amount of extra attention by law enforcement or the DA's Office will change that. I don't pretend to know why he chooses to do it that way. I wouldn't, but it is legal. FWIW, he is the kind of person who would probably be willing to put up with the extra hassle in the event someone wanted to try and make it an issue just to prove a point. He isn't going out looking for confrontation, but I suspect he would take the opportunity, if presented, to make his case (in court if necessary) that what he is doing is legal. Perhaps that he why he is going the route he is. I haven't asked, I figure it is his business. It is legal, and that is good enough for me. Other LEOs, less educated about our firearms laws, might not feel the same way. |
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My reply from the State instructor was as follows: While NC does honor the out of state permits, once a person becomes a NC citizen they are required to get their permit in NC as opposed to attempting to continue using the other states permit. Thanks! While I agree they should get the NC permit I would like to know what statute "requires" them to obtain their permit in NC. What state instructor are you referring to? |
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Quoted:
Chad Thompson You may want to pose the question to one of the attorneys for the AGs office at the NCJA. I've gone through this before and there is no statute that says a resident must have a NC permit and with that, there is also no statute that says a valid non resident permit from another state is not valid for a NC resident. The only time I've seen any reference to a NC specific permit is when it's used in place of a pistol purchase permit. There it does state a valid NC carry permit. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Chad Thompson You may want to pose the question to one of the attorneys for the AGs office at the NCJA. I've gone through this before and there is no statute that says a resident must have a NC permit and with that, there is also no statute that says a valid non resident permit from another state is not valid for a NC resident. The only time I've seen any reference to a NC specific permit is when it's used in place of a pistol purchase permit. There it does state a valid NC carry permit. Or you might just want to leave it alone. Nothing in the general statutes says that a NC resident has to have a NC CHP and only a NC CHP. Why poke it with a stick? |
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Because as CCH instructors they don't want to give bad or wrong information. If it is against some statute better they know so they can inform the students. If it is not then it is not.
Its not an internet board where you can say or leave out whatever you like. A CCH instructor or anyone who hangs a shingle as an instructor can be held liable in court for negligent information. NOI |
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Because as CCH instructors they don't want to give bad or wrong information. If it is against some statute better they know so they can inform the students. If it is not then it is not. Its not an internet board where you can say or leave out whatever you like. A CCH instructor or anyone who hangs a shingle as an instructor can be held liable in court for negligent information. NOI Thank you for saying in a short easy clear way. Glad to see that some do get it. |
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Quoted:
Hi Gents. Petard, NC law requires you to change your drivers license and vehicle registration with in thirty days of relocating to NC. If you want to know NC law I suggest you read it from the site Blammer listed, or right out of the NC General statutes. They are on line. NCGS While the statutes listed in the post above are valid, they leave out some things. 14 415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit. (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer. LINK So you must present a valid ID with your permit. After 30 days that means your NC Drivers license because your old ID is no longer valid because you now live in NC and are subject to NC law. If your MI permit does not reflect you new NC address any prudent officer is going to start checking and asking questions. You can apply for your NC permit after residing 30 days. Gee that seems to fit together for some reason. I have a friend with a Virginia non-resident permit and carries based on that even though he has been a NC resident for years, and never a resident of Virginia.
Yup and when something goes bad, like the kind of thing you CCH for, He will go from I am working the system to I wish I had just taken the class because he is going to get a ton more scrutiny than someone who resides in NC and has an NC permit. Hell I dont know the guy and I am wondering why he does it that way. NOI Thank you! I FULLY plan on applying for the NC permit once I have an address. I guess I was more concerned for the interm. If I understood correctly, I CAN'T apply until I have been a resident for 30 days. Then there is the processing time. So the question should be...during the time from when I apply and am approved ny NC...would I technically/legally be covered by my MN permit? |