Posted: 11/8/2013 6:38:24 PM EDT
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Just heard about this today, haven't been shooting there since it changed hands a couple years back
http://www.whig.com/story/23865185/2013/11/03/woman-dies-after-shooting-at-salt-river-gun-range |
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Like letting a kid fire a Micro UZI or MAC for that matter.... Quoted:
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Gun + new (to gun) shooter = ONE F*&%ing round in the gun. I do agree that it's the height of negligence to give an inexperienced shooter a heavy-recoil gun under any circumstances. Like letting a kid fire a Micro UZI or MAC for that matter.... Not sure if you're kidding. I've met "kids" that handle a MP-5 in FA better than most adults, and I've met adults who should never get ahold of anything more than an airsoft. I believe it's about the experience/familiarity of any shooter with any particular class of gun. If the shooter is unfamiliar with how the gun is going to shoot, then limit the risk by loading only one round. |
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Quoted:
Not sure if you're kidding. I've met "kids" that handle a MP-5 in FA better than most adults, and I've met adults who should never get ahold of anything more than an airsoft. I believe it's about the experience/familiarity of any shooter with any particular class of gun. If the shooter is unfamiliar with how the gun is going to shoot, then limit the risk by loading only one round. Quoted:
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Gun + new (to gun) shooter = ONE F*&%ing round in the gun. I do agree that it's the height of negligence to give an inexperienced shooter a heavy-recoil gun under any circumstances. Like letting a kid fire a Micro UZI or MAC for that matter.... Not sure if you're kidding. I've met "kids" that handle a MP-5 in FA better than most adults, and I've met adults who should never get ahold of anything more than an airsoft. I believe it's about the experience/familiarity of any shooter with any particular class of gun. If the shooter is unfamiliar with how the gun is going to shoot, then limit the risk by loading only one round. I'm an experienced full auto shooter, and I'm here to tell you a Micro Uzi is almost uncontrollable, a Glock 18 is easier to control. Another example of how a tragedy can occur: With his father and a firearms instructor standing nearby, an 8-year-old Connecticut boy shot himself in the head with a submachine gun yesterday, killing himself in an accident some say should never have happened. Christopher Bizilj was testing a 9 mm Micro Uzi at the Westfield Sportsman's Club in Westfield, Mass., as part of the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo, when he shot himself Sunday. "The firearm instructor prepped the weapon for him, and once it was ready he handed it to the child," Westfield Police Lt. Hipolito Nunez told ABCNews.com today. Christopher then pulled the trigger, and the gun's recoil pulled the barrel upward, causing a round to hit him on the right side of his head, according Nunez. He was pronounced dead a short time later at Baystate Medical Center in nearby Springfield. Massachusetts law allows a child to fire a gun with parental consent, so long as there's an active permit for the gun and a licensed firearm instructor is supervising. It is unclear whether the gun had a permit or whether the instructor was licensed, but Nunez said Christopher's father was nearby. Christopher's family, including his father, Dr. Charles Bizilj, who is the director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital in Stafford Springs, Conn., could not be reached for comment. But according to Ted Oven, a gun retailer and president of the Massachusetts Association of Firearms Dealers, Christopher should have never been allowed to handle a submachine gun on his own. Oven has shot similar weapons and said the recoil is tough to control even for an adult. "It requires all my strength," said Oven, who added that he did not have much experience with the Micro Uzi. "For an 8-year-old, it was inappropriate." The Micro Uzi, he said, is a tough gun to get a permit for and retails for several thousand dollars. He was not at the expo when Christopher was shot but said that because the gun is fully automatic, it likely shot off several rounds in a couple of seconds when the boy pulled the trigger. Information found on Uzitalk.com, an Internet forum dedicated to the Israeli-made submachine guns, described the Micro Uzi as coming on the market in 1986 and having the capability to fire 25 rounds in less than 30 seconds. (On a closed bolt Micro Uzi the cyclic rate can exceed 1800 rpm) The guns, manufactured by Israeli Military Industries Ltd., are generally designed for military and police use. 'No Permits or Licenses Required' Messages left with COP Firearms & Training, the co-sponsor of the gun expo, and the president of the Westfield Sportsman's Club, were not immediately returned. Watch this link, it's a Mini Uzi WITH A BUTTSTOCK & SOMEWHERE TO HOLD ON TO IN THE FRONT! 25rd Mini Uzi Mag Dump - MICRO Uzi is FASTER |
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An MP5 would be fine or an Uzi, but not a micro uzi or a Mac and in some cases a mini uzi. We start most kids out with an Uzi since it is big enough, heavy and has a slow cycle rate.
You always need to make sure new shooters shoot guns that they can handle and will not get away from them. This is the case with high power guns and full auto. When we are renting MG's or training shooter we always make sure they shoot a gun they can handle and make sure we are in a position to grab and control the gun if it gets away from them. If a small kid wants to shoot a MG I will hold on to it to make sure it is under control, especially if they want to shoot the mini Uzi or the TP9. We need to educate our new and young shooters and make sure they have fun but make sure everyone goes home at the end of the day. Quoted:
Not sure if you're kidding. I've met "kids" that handle a MP-5 in FA better than most adults, and I've met adults who should never get ahold of anything more than an airsoft. I believe it's about the experience/familiarity of any shooter with any particular class of gun. If the shooter is unfamiliar with how the gun is going to shoot, then limit the risk by loading only one round. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun + new (to gun) shooter = ONE F*&%ing round in the gun. I do agree that it's the height of negligence to give an inexperienced shooter a heavy-recoil gun under any circumstances. Like letting a kid fire a Micro UZI or MAC for that matter.... Not sure if you're kidding. I've met "kids" that handle a MP-5 in FA better than most adults, and I've met adults who should never get ahold of anything more than an airsoft. I believe it's about the experience/familiarity of any shooter with any particular class of gun. If the shooter is unfamiliar with how the gun is going to shoot, then limit the risk by loading only one round. |
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I felt real bad about letting a too-small kid shoot my Super Blackhawk at Chad's and braining himself with it. I held my hand over the 7.5" barrel knowing it would whip up under recoil but I completely failed to consider that it could go straight back and smack his eyebrow. No gash, but a nice goose-egg. I just hope I did not scare him away from guns due to my ignorance. HOWEVER, being a somewhat smart feller, I loaded the gun with ONLY 1 round because I know that under recoil & panic, firing a second round, even on a single-action revolver, is entirely possible. I do have at least that much brains. |
That P90 sure is popular with the kids. It always brings out the smiles on their faces. 
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Bret, my youngest son STILL brags about getting to shoot your P90
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/Family/DSCF0220.jpg He's grown up a little since then (5' 11") |
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I know my son was sad when he heard that Mr W had his fun tools with to JC's zombie day and he was under the weather.
I learned on a .22 bolt gun which had no magazine. It's a way that makes sense to me as it allows you to learn to follow the range officer's commands. |
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Yes, it's a bad idea. I've seen many videos of unprepared shooters first time going incredibly wrong.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNesV7-ZrDIHoly hell.... That could have gone bad quickly.... |
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Dear lord... IMO, whoever gave that Colombian girl the .500 Revolver, I presume it was its' owner, should be charged with at least reckless endangerment. That's like giving a 16 yr old kid an indy car. The guy that lost his son is getting punished enough (I have a young son and I can't imagine myself in a similar situation. I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself.) A .500 S&W has almost as much muzzle energy as a 7mm RM and it's a handgun... Who shoots that for fun much less hands it over to a [seemingly/presumably] inexperienced relative. |
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Early 500 mags had problems with doubling. Yeah, on a revolver...
Seems the recoil is so bad that people would overreact when fired. Releasing the trigger as as the recoil first hits then pulling it again by fiercely holding as it recoiled upward. Sorry about the kid, it should have never happened. |
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Dear lord... IMO, whoever gave that Colombian girl the .500 Revolver, I presume it was its' owner, should be charged with at least reckless endangerment. That's like giving a 16 yr old kid an indy car. The guy that lost his son is getting punished enough (I have a young son and I can't imagine myself in a similar situation. I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself.) A .500 S&W has almost as much muzzle energy as a 7mm RM and it's a handgun... Who shoots that for fun much less hands it over to a [seemingly/presumably] inexperienced relative. The recoil isn't quite as bad as you think.... I mean for a beginner, yes. But an experienced shooter, no. |
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Dear lord... IMO, whoever gave that Colombian girl the .500 Revolver, I presume it was its' owner, should be charged with at least reckless endangerment. That's like giving a 16 yr old kid an indy car. The guy that lost his son is getting punished enough (I have a young son and I can't imagine myself in a similar situation. I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself.) A .500 S&W has almost as much muzzle energy as a 7mm RM and it's a handgun... Who shoots that for fun much less hands it over to a [seemingly/presumably] inexperienced relative. I'm not sure about this. Being as we (now) know it's dangerous and possible, then yes we would be negligent if we put a shooter in harms way this way. But if you were not aware of the inherent danger, how could you know that something like this could happen? I'm sure the person that put her up to it and put the gun in her hand will have enough to think about the rest of their live. |
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The recoil isn't quite as bad as you think.... I mean for a beginner, yes. But an experienced shooter, no. Quoted:
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Dear lord... IMO, whoever gave that Colombian girl the .500 Revolver, I presume it was its' owner, should be charged with at least reckless endangerment. That's like giving a 16 yr old kid an indy car. The guy that lost his son is getting punished enough (I have a young son and I can't imagine myself in a similar situation. I don't know if I'd be able to live with myself.) A .500 S&W has almost as much muzzle energy as a 7mm RM and it's a handgun... Who shoots that for fun much less hands it over to a [seemingly/presumably] inexperienced relative. The recoil isn't quite as bad as you think.... I mean for a beginner, yes. But an experienced shooter, no. My first shot behind a S&W 500. 
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