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Posted: 4/25/2013 4:50:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just passed Senate General Laws Committee 4-1... Now onto the full Senate. Excellent. Do we know when that will happen? Also, I'm not super knowledgeable about MOs legislative process. If Nixon vetos this bill, does another vote have to be held to over ride the veto, or will that just be assumed if the vote passes with a strong enough majority? Yes, another vote would have to be held requiring a 2/3 majority in both houses. Of course it's a good sign if the bill reaches the governor's desk with a 2/3 majority in the first place as a veto would be pointless unless circumstances changed or the governor just wanted to make a point. HB436 was approved by the House with an easy 2/3 majority. Hopefully, the same will happen in the Senate soon. Link to the process (left cold, I'm posting on a phone). http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/info/howbill.htm Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Edit to make link hot. |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 6:58:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just passed Senate General Laws Committee 4-1... Now onto the full Senate. Excellent. Do we know when that will happen? Also, I'm not super knowledgeable about MOs legislative process. If Nixon vetos this bill, does another vote have to be held to over ride the veto, or will that just be assumed if the vote passes with a strong enough majority? Yes, another vote would have to be held requiring a 2/3 majority in both houses. Of course it's a good sign if the bill reaches the governor's desk with a 2/3 majority in the first place as a veto would be pointless unless circumstances changed or the governor just wanted to make a point. HB436 was approved by the House with an easy 2/3 majority. Hopefully, the same will happen in the Senate soon. Link to the process (left cold, I'm posting on a phone). http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/info/howbill.htm Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Edit to make link hot. Nixon can also choose to not sign or veto the bill. The bill would still become law on Aug 28th but he could say he didn't sign it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 7:20:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: I haven't yet read the full text of the bill so just did. I like the last part. Basically anyone that arrests or charges you for a federal violation... you can sue them for judgment in Missouri Court. That's pretty awesome. The problem is that the .gov has to consent to be sued and their representatives most likely will simply never show up to such a "day in court". And really, who could make them show up? And even if they did show up, who could make them comply with a "lower" court. While I fully support the notion, IMO it's mostly a bunch of toothless posturing.  |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 12:11:17 PM EDT
[#4]
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I haven't yet read the full text of the bill so just did. I like the last part. Basically anyone that arrests or charges you for a federal violation... you can sue them for judgment in Missouri Court. That's pretty awesome. The problem is that the .gov has to consent to be sued and their representatives most likely will simply never show up to such a "day in court". And really, who could make them show up? And even if they did show up, who could make them comply with a "lower" court. While I fully support the notion, IMO it's mostly a bunch of toothless posturing.
From the way I read the bill you could sue the person who arrested you in the first place in civil court. |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 12:45:50 PM EDT
[#5]
HB436 is scheduled to have a third reading and debate in the Senate on Monday, April 29.
HB 436 - Funderburk - Establishes the Second Amendment Preservation Act which rejects all federal acts that infringe on a Missouri citizens' rights under the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution LR Number: 1204S.04C Bill Title: SCS HCS HB 436 4/25/2013 - Reported from S General Laws Committee to Floor w/SCS - S914-415 4/29/2013 - S Formal Calendar H Bills for Third Reading--HCS for HB 436, with SCS |
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Posted: 4/25/2013 3:10:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
HB436 is scheduled to have a third reading and debate in the Senate on Monday, April 29.
HB 436 - Funderburk - Establishes the Second Amendment Preservation Act which rejects all federal acts that infringe on a Missouri citizens' rights under the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution LR Number: 1204S.04C Bill Title: SCS HCS HB 436 4/25/2013 - Reported from S General Laws Committee to Floor w/SCS - S914-415 4/29/2013 - S Formal Calendar H Bills for Third Reading--HCS for HB 436, with SCS 
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Posted: 4/25/2013 8:35:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Woah. This thread blew up on me while I was busy not paying attention to the hometown forum.
Indeed, the way the Missouri Constitution reads is that : "Any of the following in violation of federal law" It gives nothing to say it is illegal by Mo standards. I believe it would just make 570.020 useless text. Quoted:
Ouch . Loophole . 
(6) Any of the following in violation of federal law: 
(a) A machine gun; (b) A short-barreled rifle or shotgun; (c) A firearm silencer; or (d) A switchblade knife. |
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Posted: 4/26/2013 5:07:12 AM EDT
[#8]
phhhew.... good thing im only into suppressors. Silencers are so TV.
Time for a conservative gov and amendment to the MO Contitution to repeal that part. |
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Posted: 4/26/2013 12:55:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Woah. This thread blew up on me while I was busy not paying attention to the hometown forum. Indeed, the way the Missouri Constitution reads is that : "Any of the following in violation of federal law" It gives nothing to say it is illegal by Mo standards. I believe it would just make 570.020 useless text. Quoted:
Ouch . Loophole .
(6) Any of the following in violation of federal law:
(a) A machine gun; (b) A short-barreled rifle or shotgun; (c) A firearm silencer; or (d) A switchblade knife. As I read it, (not a lawyer), the new bill as passed by the house would invalidate/repeal sections 6a, b, and c. If it repeals all Federal Gun Control laws passed since 1934 and in the future, then it seems that this portion of 570.020 becomes invalid. |
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Posted: 4/26/2013 12:59:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Woah. This thread blew up on me while I was busy not paying attention to the hometown forum. Indeed, the way the Missouri Constitution reads is that : "Any of the following in violation of federal law" It gives nothing to say it is illegal by Mo standards. I believe it would just make 570.020 useless text. Quoted:
Ouch . Loophole .
(6) Any of the following in violation of federal law:
(a) A machine gun; (b) A short-barreled rifle or shotgun; (c) A firearm silencer; or (d) A switchblade knife. As I read it, (not a lawyer), the new bill as passed by the house would invalidate/repeal sections 6a, b, and c. If it repeals all Federal Gun Control laws passed since 1934 and in the future, then it seems that this portion of 570.020 becomes invalid. That's the way it reads. Hold tight on what is happening. |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 8:21:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Bill is now going to full Senate. Hearing scheduled 4/29/13 What happens after that? |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 10:08:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Essentially its bringing it to the floor for debate. On whether it should pass, "perfecting" it by adding amendments or taking things out of the bill. Then they would have to vote on any amendments and then they'd have to vote on the bill.
Sounds fairly easy but all kinds of things can happen to a bill on th floor. If it doesn't have the proper push it coukd just die, someone against the bill could filibuster, yadayada yada. However, luckily thjs bill seems to have an extreme push and is movng VERY quickly. |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 11:38:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Its funny because there are plenty of bills that I see arfcom talk about and responding with things like "We were caught off guard, we have to react immediately!" Yet in this case, the thing could pass and be signed into law before it even garners much attention which frankly..I'm fine with since its not proposing anything new, just protecting the old.
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Posted: 4/28/2013 12:42:17 PM EDT
[#14]
So who has a machine shop with a CNC machine that is willing to teach some classes and rent time. I got some projects that need doing. I figure monocore .22 suppressors for everyone I own will be first on the list. I dont think I will even make them take apart. I will just make new ones when they fill up with crap.
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Posted: 4/28/2013 1:26:34 PM EDT
[#15]
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So who has a machine shop with a CNC machine that is willing to teach some classes and rent time. I got some projects that need doing. I figure monocore .22 suppressors for everyone I own will be first on the list. I dont think I will even make them take apart. I will just make new ones when they fill up with crap. interesting...... |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 2:02:22 PM EDT
[#16]
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So who has a machine shop with a CNC machine that is willing to teach some classes and rent time. I got some projects that need doing. I figure monocore .22 suppressors for everyone I own will be first on the list. I dont think I will even make them take apart. I will just make new ones when they fill up with crap. interesting...... Was meant to denote sarcasm. I have no intention of making my own suppressors without following all NFA guidelines. I dont need a visit from the alphabet group.
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Posted: 4/28/2013 3:07:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Its funny because there are plenty of bills that I see arfcom talk about and responding with things like "We were caught off guard, we have to react immediately!" Yet in this case, the thing could pass and be signed into law before it even garners much attention which frankly..I'm fine with since its not proposing anything new, just protecting the old. I've been told by some people close to the bill this was done with some intent. |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 3:33:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its funny because there are plenty of bills that I see arfcom talk about and responding with things like "We were caught off guard, we have to react immediately!" Yet in this case, the thing could pass and be signed into law before it even garners much attention which frankly..I'm fine with since its not proposing anything new, just protecting the old. I've been told by some people close to the bill this was done with some intent. Exactly .
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Posted: 4/28/2013 4:39:13 PM EDT
[#19]
It is my understanding that once this bill is signed into law, Missouri will set its own regulations regarding NFA items.
We can only assume it will be better than the current 6 month wait with feds. |
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Posted: 4/28/2013 6:12:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
It is my understanding that once this bill is signed into law, Missouri will set its own regulations regarding NFA items. We can only assume it will be better than the current 6 month wait with feds. Then those regulations will be strongly opposed. You can go from liberty loving buddy to shit eating politician pretty fast if you make the wrong moves. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:53:45 AM EDT
[#21]
any new status on this bill yet?
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Posted: 4/29/2013 9:22:09 AM EDT
[#22]
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any new status on this bill yet? According to the Missouri State Senate's website, they are currently adjourned and won't convene until 4:00 pm later today. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 9:44:41 AM EDT
[#23]
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any new status on this bill yet? According to the Missouri State Senate's website, they are currently adjourned and won't convene until 4:00 pm later today. Anybody here that will be attending? As somebody in the market for a suppressor and SBR, what do you all think about holding off until we see where this new legislation leads? |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 9:47:08 AM EDT
[#24]
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any new status on this bill yet? According to the Missouri State Senate's website, they are currently adjourned and won't convene until 4:00 pm later today. Anybody here that will be attending? As somebody in the market for a suppressor and SBR, what do you all think about holding off until we see where this new legislation leads? The wait thing... That all comes down to how willing you are to be the one to test the waters... I have very little doubt this legislation will pass... And soon. However how much of the NFA stuff will remain in the bill is still up in the air in my opinion... As well as just how enforced it's gonna be. I myself have chosen to hold off a bit on sending off any more stamps... Just to see what happens. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:13:18 PM EDT
[#25]
My understanding of this bill is that the only Federal stuff this negates is from this point forward. It won't retroactively remove all the bad things we don't like.
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#26]
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My understanding of this bill is that the only Federal stuff this negates is from this point forward. It won't retroactively remove all the bad things we don't like. 3. (1) All federal acts, laws, orders, rules, and regulations, whether past, present, 59 or future, which infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the 60 Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article I, Section 23 of the 61 Missouri Constitution shall be invalid in this state, shall not be recognized by this state, are 62 specifically rejected by this state, and shall be considered null and void and of no effect in 63 this state. 64 (2) Such federal acts, laws, orders, rules, and regulations include, but are not 65 limited to: 66 (a) The provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1934; 67 (b) The provisions of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968; 68 (c) Any tax, levy, fee, or stamp imposed on firearms, firearm accessories, or 69 ammunition not common to all other goods and services which could have a chilling effect 70 on the purchase or ownership of those items by law-abiding citizens; |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:37:25 PM EDT
[#27]
This was in another thread, but this bill might** not allow for stampless NFA items.
Since it's part of MO code that makes it neccesary to have stamps for NFA items. 571.020.6 Although, it's kind of weird circular logic. If HB436 blocks federal NFA rules, but doesn't act on MO-571.020.6 which is enforcing federal NFA laws, which one wins? My guess is that unless HB436 directly repeals 571.020.6, the old law remains in effect. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:40:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Exactly...
We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:45:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 12:51:48 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 1:22:00 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
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Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. Threading pipe is like 87x better than treading water. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 1:55:40 PM EDT
[#32]
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Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. Threading pipe is like 87x better than treading water. ICWhatUDidThere.... |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 2:03:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. Threading pipe is like 87x better than treading water. ICWhatUDidThere.... 
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Posted: 4/29/2013 4:24:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. Guys, Posted waaaaaay back on page 3, was this: Quoted:
Quoted:
Woah. This thread blew up on me while I was busy not paying attention to the hometown forum. Indeed, the way the Missouri Constitution reads is that : "Any of the following in violation of federal law" It gives nothing to say it is illegal by Mo standards. I believe it would just make 570.020 useless text. Quoted:
Ouch . Loophole .
(6) Any of the following in violation of federal law:
(a) A machine gun; (b) A short-barreled rifle or shotgun; (c) A firearm silencer; or (d) A switchblade knife. As I read it, (not a lawyer), the new bill as passed by the house would invalidate/repeal sections 6a, b, and c. If it repeals all Federal Gun Control laws passed since 1934 and in the future, then it seems that this portion of 570.020 becomes invalid. If Federal laws regarding firearms become nullified due to this bill......how would you be in violation of Federal laws? |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 5:19:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Exactly... We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I don't forsee Machineguns becoming legal again... SBR's, AOW's, and supressors have a better chance... BUT... I still have my doubts. If it removes nfa 34 and 68... It sure would make that all legal. But as stated above... Missouri law already forbids those things ontop of the federal law... Repeal (Well... Refuse to recognize I guess) the federal law... The Missouri Law still stands... Unless they nullify that as well. Don't get me wrong... I'm ALL for it... And I'd be the first to start drilling my recievers and threading pipe... I just don't see us getting that lucky. Guys, Posted waaaaaay back on page 3, was this: Quoted:
Quoted:
Woah. This thread blew up on me while I was busy not paying attention to the hometown forum. Indeed, the way the Missouri Constitution reads is that : "Any of the following in violation of federal law" It gives nothing to say it is illegal by Mo standards. I believe it would just make 570.020 useless text. Quoted:
Ouch . Loophole .
(6) Any of the following in violation of federal law:
(a) A machine gun; (b) A short-barreled rifle or shotgun; (c) A firearm silencer; or (d) A switchblade knife. As I read it, (not a lawyer), the new bill as passed by the house would invalidate/repeal sections 6a, b, and c. If it repeals all Federal Gun Control laws passed since 1934 and in the future, then it seems that this portion of 570.020 becomes invalid. If Federal laws regarding firearms become nullified due to this bill......how would you be in violation of Federal laws? Exactly, but we have some slow learners on board. Not to worry a few pages and we're all on the same track. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 5:24:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Existing MO law forbids NFA based on federal law, which this new HB disavows. So the confusion will be, how can an old MO law written to enforce a federal law still be in effect if new bill bans enforcing federal laws?
 ETA: read 2 above posts.... aNNNd now i'm caught up
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Posted: 4/29/2013 5:40:30 PM EDT
[#37]
Except we aren't actually nulilfying Federal Law...
We are choosing to IGNORE federal law... Federal law will still state those items are illegal... We will just be choosing not to follow that federal law. Get what I'm saying? It's a roundy round of a problem. What came first?... Chicken or Egg? That kinda deal. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 6:38:03 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Except we aren't actually nulilfying Federal Law... We are choosing to IGNORE federal law... Federal law will still state those items are illegal... We will just be choosing not to follow that federal law. Get what I'm saying? It's a roundy round of a problem. What came first?... Chicken or Egg? That kinda deal. Follow me here..... If the law is passed using the same language of this bill then: All Federal firearms laws are pronounced null and void in the State of Missouri. Enforcing or attempting to enforce Federal firearms laws in the State of Missouri is a felony. The Missouri AG will be required to defend you in any case involving Federal firearms laws that this law, (currently a bill) invalidates. So you wont be prosecuted in the State of Missouri, and any Federal Agent that attempts to enforce Federal will be charged with a felony...... So where's your problem? |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 6:45:53 PM EDT
[#39]
HB436 is being debated on the senate floor right now.
9:45PM 4/29 |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 6:46:39 PM EDT
[#40]
http://gifsoup.com/view/3511790/joker-throws-money.html
I cant get this to embed. However this is how I feel about getting this passed. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 6:55:05 PM EDT
[#41]
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Except we aren't actually nulilfying Federal Law... We are choosing to IGNORE federal law... Federal law will still state those items are illegal... We will just be choosing not to follow that federal law. Get what I'm saying? It's a roundy round of a problem. What came first?... Chicken or Egg? That kinda deal. Follow me here..... If the law is passed using the same language of this bill then: All Federal firearms laws are pronounced null and void in the State of Missouri. Enforcing or attempting to enforce Federal firearms laws in the State of Missouri is a felony. The Missouri AG will be required to defend you in any case involving Federal firearms laws that this law, (currently a bill) invalidates. So you wont be prosecuted in the State of Missouri, and any Federal Agent that attempts to enforce Federal will be charged with a felony...... So where's your problem? My "problem" is that... HB436 would make it so that the state of Missouri does not by recognize those FEDERAL GCA's... However... HB436 does NOT nulify the existing MISSOURI statute that states we will abide by all federal regulations relating to SBRs, MG's, and etc... For HB436 to ABSOLUTELY state that those items were "free and clear" it would also have to nulify the Missouri side of the law. Just because it states "in violation of Federal law" doesn't mean squat because we aren't actually nulifying Federal Law... We are choosing to ignore Federal Law... Those Federal Laws will still be on the books in regards to SBR, MG, etc... My point is... We have no clue how the MG, SBR, etc thing will wash out yet... I don't know how to explain my thoughts any better than this... And I've admitted that I could be wrong. MY interpretation is that it's not as cut and dry as you guys are making it out to be. I give it 90% odds though that we do NOT get MG's, SBR's, and Supressors... Even if SB436 passes... Because the Missouri statutes that apply to them will still be in effect. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 6:55:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
http://gifsoup.com/view/3511790/joker-throws-money.html I cant get this to embed. However this is how I feel about getting this passed. Here ya go... 
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:01:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Is anybody listening to the debate?
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:04:03 PM EDT
[#44]
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Is anybody listening to the debate? Link? ETA: Found it... |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:06:44 PM EDT
[#45]
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Is anybody listening to the debate? Link? Go here http://senate.mo.gov and click on "Senate" under "Live Debate" on the right side. You may have to download a player. It's not the most user-friendly. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:10:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Holy Hell... Whoever the woman talking now is...
Good Gawd she's dense... |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:12:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Can't listen live on my Mac :(
. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:13:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Holy Hell... Whoever the woman talking now is... Good Gawd she's dense... She is awful. "BBBBBuuuuttttt......I'm a school board member!!!"
Edit to add: This is her. |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:18:24 PM EDT
[#49]
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Can't listen live on my Mac :( . I am. I had to download Flip Player for Mac. However, this link works on Firefox without a player. http://chamber.senate.mo.gov/SenateChamber |
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Posted: 4/29/2013 7:21:04 PM EDT
[#50]
I guess they have moved onto other issues now?
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