Posted: 4/13/2013 2:00:19 PM EDT
Allegedly this guy was handing out certificates after only three hours of class.  
04/13/2013 10:30 AM CLAYTON • A St. Louis County police records clerk was stumped when a concealed-carry permit applicant presented a certificate showing he had received the required eight hours of firearms training that very day. She looked at her watch. It was about 1:30 p.m. March 5. She asked exactly when he took the class. It started at 10 a.m., he said.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/charges-against-st-louis-county-gun-instructor-put-concealed-carry/article_c8d2659b-9f6c-5b39-91f1-acfd48305f52.html |
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Yea, I cring everytime I hear some punk ass bragin about how they got out of their class in like 3 hours or something obviously way shy of requirments... I dunno about everyone else, but I really enjoyed my CCW class, learning about the laws and other new things related... I don geit it...
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I hate the fact what he did was illegal. I also hate that he did it. One should not have to pay the state and a trainer for the right to defend yourself. Since its a law then he should have followed it.
Anyone that wants to Cary a firearm and can legally possess said firearm should be able to carry it. |
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Quoted: I hate the fact what he did was illegal. I also hate that he did it. One should not have to pay the state and a trainer for the right to defend yourself. Since its a law then he should have followed it. Anyone that wants to Cary a firearm and can legally possess said firearm should be able to carry it. I'm not going to argue your point on the shoulda/woulda because I more or less agree. That being said, the law on this is quite specific and his "techniques" will do nothing but harm those who do the training by the book, give fodder to those who strive to ban guns and raise unfortunate and un-needed attention from people who were undecided on the issue. I suppose there are some who could try to use this as a platform to abolish said classes, but IMHO they would be taking on the task from a disadvantage. This idiot, and I can feel safe and secure saying he was just that did no favors to those who want to CCW responsibly.
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It's hard to get these guys busted as most Sheriff's offices don't tend to look into tips. Not to mention I've personally heard more than a few instructors bad mouth other instructors. I could see one reporting the other for bullshit just to spite them. It would be hard to prove if the tips were even authentic. Yeah I enjoy my classes quite a bit and so do others...it's not hard at all for me to fill 8 hrs. It's actually quite easy. Hell I would invite any sheriffs officers or deceives to come sit in on my classes if they had any question about how I'm conducting them. |
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What about having classes at a known drug dealers house. Some of these teachers are just out to screw people. Whaaaat!? Who did that lol. I've done classes for private groups where somebody allows the group to into their home and we do the classroom part in their living room. If the drug dealers kept a squared away house I would never know, but what are the odds of a normal looking drug house lol
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It's hard to get these guys busted as most Sheriff's offices don't tend to look into tips. You might have missed it in the article, this is just the beginning. More undercover officers are going to be attending other instructor's CCW training courses. Anyone catch the "Delta" part ? That says everything that needs to be said other than I wonder what the guys Arfcom handle is ? dc. |
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His wife's comments on her Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/maryebcran |
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I gotta ask, now I just read her comments and I know that this could be one sided. But what of this warrants a night time raid?
If it did happen like that why would you put your officers at risk when you could just nab him any day of the week? I don't get it. I am in noway supporting this guy or bashing LEO just curious. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I hate the fact what he did was illegal. I also hate that he did it. One should not have to pay the state and a trainer for the right to defend yourself. Since its a law then he should have followed it. Anyone that wants to Cary a firearm and can legally possess said firearm should be able to carry it. I'm not going to argue your point on the shoulda/woulda because I more or less agree. That being said, the law on this is quite specific and his "techniques" will do nothing but harm those who do the training by the book, give fodder to those who strive to ban guns and raise unfortunate and un-needed attention from people who were undecided on the issue. I suppose there are some who could try to use this as a platform to abolish said classes, but IMHO they would be taking on the task from a disadvantage. This idiot, and I can feel safe and secure saying he was just that did no favors to those who want to CCW responsibly.
This! |
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I'm in no way condoning the puppy mill, but the person who walked into the office at10:30 probably shouldn't carry in the first place. The applicant obviously had a pulse, but.... There is a good chance they didn't know they were doing anything wrong and was just excited to get the permit. |
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Clearly the wife needs to work on her reading comprehension. She thinks the statute needs to be clarified regarding the instruction time. From her fb post....
This article says that Don talked about his military service in Delta Force. THAT IS A LIE! How dare you write such an article that insights fear without being objective...the people Don taught learned the law. law NO CLASS IS EVER THE SAME! If they choose to go without breaks every hour, that adds 15 minutes to each hour...Times 8=2 hours. Where does it state that the lecture is to last 8? Maybe they should clarify the statutes because most places only do 4 he lecture and 4 hours slotted for shooting... thanks for ruining my life St.Louis! My marriage is ruined now that you have chosen to run this article. Charges against St. Loui
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Well, I did hear about "something" that was getting ready to go down like this from a Senator from that area, he just didn't go into details and told me I would be hearing about it soon . I'm sure this is it. He told me that there are actually instructors who are 'for sale" , as in they go into a bar and ask who wants one type of deal going on. As a good instructor, I hate these people are making the rest of us look bad. While a CCW class isn't a tactical pistol class by any means, there are still things you need to know before carrying , and we also need to know you are not more of a hindrance than an asset . |
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Quoted: There were more than a few of these; they were until now easier to find but me thinks they will be heading underground for a while.Well, I did hear about "something" that was getting ready to go down like this from a Senator from that area, he just didn't go into details and told me I would be hearing about it soon . I'm sure this is it. He told me that there are actually instructors who are 'for sale" , as in they go into a bar and ask who wants one type of deal going on. As a good instructor, I hate these people are making the rest of us look bad. While a CCW class isn't a tactical pistol class by any means, there are still things you need to know before carrying , and we also need to know you are not more of a hindrance than an asset . Anyone who thinks that this is a great way to get their CCW is mistaken; I'm fairly confident that issued CCW creds by knuckleheads like this will be invalidated here quickly... Again, I get the "we shouldn't have to" and I'm not arguing....but there's procedures on this and with the current climate there will be no shortage of folks willing to dime out those who aren't playing by the rules, agree with them or not.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
It's hard to get these guys busted as most Sheriff's offices don't tend to look into tips. You might have missed it in the article, this is just the beginning. More undercover officers are going to be attending other instructor's CCW training courses. Anyone catch the "Delta" part ? That says everything that needs to be said other than I wonder what the guys Arfcom handle is ? dc. I caught that. What a toolbox
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A good tip for instructors that I learned first from DukeNukem(my original ccw instructor) and again from Chad(my instructor course instructor), is to KEEP A LOG IN/LOG OUT TIME SHEET.
That way you can show who was in attendance and for exactly how long. That way you can at least in some way prove what your doing. I've learned that it's always best to cover your ass as much as possible with everything. |
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Quoted: I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. I know it always amazes and peaves me the amount of people that brag about getting shorted on their CCW training like that's a cool thing... |
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I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. Human nature. If you think you can get away with a shorter class, then many will do it. Could also be that the students were unaware of the requirements. If an instructor is going to cut corners, why would he tell the students what the requirements were really suppose to be. |
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Quoted:
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I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. I know it always amazes and peaves me the amount of people that brag about getting shorted on their CCW training like that's a cool thing...
Well when you do hear someone say this, inquire who their instructor was and turn the bastard in. Only way we are going to clean this mess up is by outing the bad instructors. Otherwise we get the wonderful reports in the media over this. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. I know it always amazes and peaves me the amount of people that brag about getting shorted on their CCW training like that's a cool thing...
I liken this to someone bragging about going to 3 days of Marine Corps boot camp and saying "I completed basic Marine training so I'm a Marine!". Okay maybe not that extreme but still 4 hours of CCW training to get a permit and bragging about it. I would have felt cheated if I didn't get what I F"ing paid for. Quoted:
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I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. I know it always amazes and peaves me the amount of people that brag about getting shorted on their CCW training like that's a cool thing...
Well when you do hear someone say this, inquire who their instructor was and turn the bastard in. Only way we are going to clean this mess up is by outing the bad instructors. Otherwise we get the wonderful reports in the media over this. A lot of people are also full of sh!t too. I know someone who bragged about getting his permit after only attending 30 minutes of training. I guess he forgot that I has in the same class and we both were there a little over 10 hours. WTF? |
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Quoted: Good idea.. Will do...Quoted: Quoted: I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. I know it always amazes and peaves me the amount of people that brag about getting shorted on their CCW training like that's a cool thing... Well when you do hear someone say this, inquire who their instructor was and turn the bastard in. Only way we are going to clean this mess up is by outing the bad instructors. Otherwise we get the wonderful reports in the media over this. |
| Ever instructor has a responsibilty of policing our society for the bad apples. I tell every instructor student I have that I will be the first one to turn them in for not following state, or NRA rules. If this guy did in fact take it upon himself to do as he pleases then the hell with him! |
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Quoted: I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. That's because a CCW class is NOT "training". There is barely enough time in an 8-hour class to cover the bare essentials of the law and shoot the qualification course. "Training" occurs on another day. Well, actually, many, many, many days. |
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Man, and I felt odd about gong for Instructor with no prior mil/gov/LEO/CCW experience...
I wish I were a better instructor, something I'm working on first. What an asshat this guy is. Stolen Valor won't help him either. I think I remember seeing his fliers... |
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Man, and I felt odd about gong for Instructor with no prior mil/gov/LEO/CCW experience... I wish I were a better instructor, something I'm working on first. What an asshat this guy is. Stolen Valor won't help him either. I think I remember seeing his fliers... LEO , MILITARY training doesn't help you at all. CCW courses are some of the most basic courses. A positive attitude and being intelligent is much more valuable than any of the desired prerecks you listed. Ive seen several with lots of experience that were fucktards. Civilians tend to teach their class rather than their career and all the things they have done. I have only been to a few leo cert trainers that stuck to the basics rather than building their ego. |
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Man, and I felt odd about gong for Instructor with no prior mil/gov/LEO/CCW experience... I wish I were a better instructor, something I'm working on first. What an asshat this guy is. Stolen Valor won't help him either. I think I remember seeing his fliers... LEO , MILITARY training doesn't help you at all. CCW courses are some of the most basic courses. A positive attitude and being intelligent is much more valuable than any of the desired prerecks you listed. Ive seen several with lots of experience that were fucktards. Civilians tend to teach their class rather than their career and all the things they have done. I have only been to a few leo cert trainers that stuck to the basics rather than building their ego. Awesome, that really makes me feel better. I'll still work on my teaching skills. 
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I'm 100% for constitutional carry, but I'm wondering why the people paying for the class didn't see that they were selling themselves short by not getting as much training as possible. That's because a CCW class is NOT "training". There is barely enough time in an 8-hour class to cover the bare essentials of the law and shoot the qualification course. "Training" occurs on another day. Well, actually, many, many, many days. +1 Very basic information. |