[ARCHIVED THREAD] - MOHTF Carbine Class (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/27/2011 5:20:16 PM EDT
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What does the MOHTF want in a carbine class?
How much does the average arfcommer expect to pay for said class? How long does the average arfcommer expect the class to be? Manipulation? Malfunction tech and clearing? Maintenance and Operation? Talk to me! |
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all of the above. Trigger time is always good, as I have only taken a few carbine classes. Cost.....I am cheap so free is best. But you also get what you pay for. Yeah, Free isn't going to happen.... Like I said not what you WANT to pay what do you EXPECT to pay? |
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There is a class near Columbia. "Defensive Rifle Training" Tactical Specialities - It is 8 hours and around $150 and 500 rounds of ammo. I would expect any class to be as good as and cover what Todd teaches.
It is a tactics and practical usage type class. (Maintanence and Operation are always good.) I have not taken his rifle class, but intend to at some point in the near future. His CCW 1 and 2 were very good. |
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I haven't taken any classes, but wish there were some reasonably priced class available that could show all that you mentioned.
I would like to leave a class with worthwhile drills to work on and KNOW that I'm working on perfecting seriously effective stuff. I don't want to 'perfect' a bad habbit because it just feels right. 3-6 hour 'classroom' setting of a few hours with the instructor(s) going from student to student with assistance? (no live ammo) $75 - $125 would be reasonable for me. - Have a list of materials required for each student so only the instructors time would be invested? - "Lightly' cover pistol drills? - Offer a discount for quantity of students? - Imediately following the 'classroom' session, offer live fire range time and instruction for an additional fee. - Festivities immediately following? (Costs covered individually) Like I said, I've never taken a class - so I don't know what to expect and recognize that my thoughts may be completely missing the mark of what's typical. |
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6-8 Hrs
Teach everything but Maintaince, I only say that becuse we all probably know how to clean and maintain our weapons. And honestly I dont think anybody is going to make me change my ways on cleaning and maintaince unless its with revolutionary ideas and techinques. Cost is going to be the biggest thing for me. I cant afford SHIT right now. Shooting and moving is my biggest thing right now....I would focus on that. I dont get to shot and move almost ever. I need more practice on that. most of us can usually only go to public ranges where we cant do that. Now this might be dangerous(unless blanks or something are used)....but I think it would be cool to find a way to REALLY stress and scare and give the shooters a massive adrenalin dump lol and then have them run through reload drills or a 10 shot firing drill. I can tell you right now that I get myself into shitty situations from time to time. A long time ago during a VERY tense situation my heart was racing and my adrenalin was pumping so hard I almost couldnt dial 911 on my cell phone!!! I actually dropped it and fumbled trying to hit the buttons. Since then so many things have happened during my shifts at work that my body is used to shit hitting the fan and I no longer get a massive adren dump. Thank god lol. My hands used to shake for an hour after crazy things happened...you guys would laugh if you saw my hand wrighting on some of my reports and notes during that time  . but thats my point, people think they can shoot and operate their shit with lightning speed all the time. But when SHTF and you get that knot in your stomach and your mind is racing faster than your body can move. Your hands get clammy and shaky, your heart is going to beat right out of your chest....do you think you can make that life saving shot? clear that jam? reload your rifle? Its going to be much much harder than we think. WE NEED TO TRAIN FOR THIS!
What about shooting from a moving car? I know its not practical, but still might be useful to some. Im out of time. gotta run. |
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I'd probably pay $80 - $100 bucks for a whole day class. Maybe a little more if it were close to home (say, within earshot of P. Hill?). I'd be interested in a class that covered basics. My goal in life isn't to become some high speed low drag tactical operator, but I would like to develop a level of comfort and proficiency with my carbine and pistol. I'd like something that might translate easily to 3 gun competition, ie- the ability to move and shoot.
I have a friend down in FL that gets together with some tacticool types once a week for drills at a range that gives them free time. Regular practice would benefit me as well. |
| I would say $150 for 8-10 hours of training. I would like fast paced drills and have non shooters shadow or spot the other shooter. Keeps everyone busy and develops good observation skills which leads to more self examination, and in turn to a better shooter. IV done this before and it makes that 10 hour class go fast and people wanting more..Its much easier to develop a level 2 carbine course as well........Wonder if my neighbor would care if I hosted??????? Hmmmmmm |
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Quoted: This guy gets the Vagisil lube! 6-8 Hrs Teach everything but Maintaince, I only say that becuse we all probably know how to clean and maintain our weapons. And honestly I dont think anybody is going to make me change my ways on cleaning and maintaince unless its with revolutionary ideas and techinques.  |
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Don't babysitters make more than that per hour? I'd probably pay $80 - $100 bucks for a whole day class. 
That's the problem: my wife seems to think that our 10 month old son isn't old enough to stay home by himself while we're at work. If it were close to where I live I'd probably be glad to pay more than that, but DVC is an hour away and they only charge $150 for a day long carbine class. |
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Don't babysitters make more than that per hour? I'd probably pay $80 - $100 bucks for a whole day class.
Yeah, there's going to be a lot of surprised people here, I think. And folding their money before putting it back in their pockets. The economy isn't roaring yet. |
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From all the surrounding training places i think at LEAST $150 would be doable for most people who want to take a good carbine class. Depending on length is what I think should determine cost. If it's a single day 8-10 hour class with mostly range time and fast paced drills, perhaps with some lowlight-nolight shooting, i'd say $150/200 using 500/1000rds respectively. This is of course looking at what everyone else is doing.
If it is a two day course that would be AWESOME and if it included transitioning to pistol shooting that would also be AWESOME, either of those of course upping the price. I'd say a good two day price would be $250-300, and if both two day and pistol shooting i'd say $350 would be a good price point. If it is $150 per person, i'd be in for at least 2 to 4 people plus myself. If $200 or more, likely just myself |
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I would say a 2 part class over 2 weekends.
First week, basic maniplations, clearing, etc. Show some basic drills to work on between classes. 2nd week (week or 2 later). go over drills to see how everyone is progressing then start with more moving shooting, barrier, and transitions. I would say 6 hrs each day and $80-100 per day of class (ie, class is 2 days then 160-200 total) if the classes are kept small. larger would be cheaper. larger is ok at the smaller cost if there is mulitple instructors giving instruction. I would take off from work for this too. linky to something SRT is offering at parma woods (last year) linky to an older DVC training. the only thing is that it doesn't say how long the class itself is. also is a good outline of something to do Edit: typo on cost |
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Don't babysitters make more than that per hour? I'd probably pay $80 - $100 bucks for a whole day class.
Yeah, there's going to be a lot of surprised people here, I think. And folding their money before putting it back in their pockets. The economy isn't roaring yet. For me it's not even the economy. I'd drive an hour to DVC and pay $150 long before I'd pay more to go to a class here in town put on by a new company. I've had people recommend DVC to me before and it seems like they have a pretty good reputation. If there were a new (relatively unknown) company in town that was offering a training course I'd probably try it out if the price were appealing. If I had a good experience, I'd probably be willing to pay more the next time. I'd probably also recommend it to my friends. So yeah, I'd love to get in on a carbine class and I'd love to give someone here in the MOHTF some business, but I'm not willing to pay more for it than I would pay at a reputable company down the road. |
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Here's my opinion:
If you are asking "friends" and intended on offering the class to friends then cost is whatever you need to cover the costs of the range fee(if you don't have one) and any materials you provide for learning(includes lunch if you're so inclined). I don't find it appealing nor do I find it kosher to try to profit off of friends. Now when you get to offering the class to the public then charge what you want "an idiot and his money are easily parted." As far as the class teach to your strengths. If you have a certain skill set that an average Joe doesn't have then by all means teach Joe that. Most people can put rounds on paper and with minimal training can put rounds on paper while moving moderately. Maybe not clover leaf groups but sufficient to get by. If I were to take a class, or if for some reason a fool wanted to pay me to teach a class, I would expect a minimum of this: The students would be able to shoot well from bench, and other stationary positions(both supported and unsupported). The students would know the Manual of Arms for their chosen weapon. As I wouldn't expect every instructor to know everything about all weapons. If I attended your class right now my carbine would be a FAL while they aren't that different they have nuances. As far from what I would want to see, "realistic scenario drills". The average shooter will never face a horde of angry people, zombies, blue helmets, etc. And there are only a few instances in the military that a trained soldier was able to fend off a large mob when being gravely outnumbered. So it isn't realistic to train against large groups. So I'm talking think about scenarios when the carbine would be deployed. Home invasions seem to be a biggie for the average civilian. I have no doubt you know what you area doing. So take and discuss in detail everything that might be needed if you are woke up at 2am to your door getting kicked in and someone running down your hallway. Here is something I don't think get done nearly enough. Teamwork. Whether it be a husband/wife team, father/son, two buddies, etc. Let's face it if a home invasion happens one parent has to get to the kids while the other handles business. There are many scenarios where two people could be needed, put in the position, to handle the threat. How many people know how to communicate and call out targets efficiently, move without shootin one another, and cover a teammate? I'd say not many. And I would bet that where one is good two is better. I would think teamwork drills might be a separate more advanced class. Here is a thought. Just brainstorming here. This would be an instance were your price would be more than covering costs. Offer a multi weekend class, at least 3 weekends of learning. During which you offer an assortment of classroom, dry fire drills, live fire drills etc that would really sharpen the skills of your students. At the first class no shooting-minimal shooting, this is the time for learning and teaching. Second weekend dry and live firing with reinforcement of yourast weekend's teaching. Finally on weekend three, or a Sunday after the second class if so inclined you test the students. You grade them out based on their performance. The motivation for doing well is a nice discount on your next class or some other agrees upon reward for progressing well. If someone is going to pay good money for a class and they "ace" the class why not reward them? |
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This guy gets the Vagisil lube! 6-8 Hrs Teach everything but Maintaince, I only say that becuse we all probably know how to clean and maintain our weapons. And honestly I dont think anybody is going to make me change my ways on cleaning and maintaince unless its with revolutionary ideas and techinques.
I prefer my lubes to be water based, rather than oil.
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Quoted: What does the MOHTF want in a carbine class? How much does the average arfcommer expect to pay for said class? How long does the average arfcommer expect the class to be? Manipulation? Malfunction tech and clearing? Maintenance and Operation? Talk to me! Quoted: This!! Or These!!all of the above+ Trigger time is always good, as I have only taken a few carbine classes. Cost??? I have never taken a class other than my CCW or really looked into the cost of one, so I'm not sure whats fair and I would not want to insult anyone... My 2 biggest drawbacks would be finding the time to do it and the location.... I think most of you are in KC or out that way... I have a heard time getting down to Bobs place... |
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You offer something Monday thru Thursday and I will be there with bells on. My problem with these classes is that I am contracted to work Fridays and Saturdays, and while I can get one or the other off it cuts my pay by about 2/3. I could make a Sunday work also as long as it started after 10a.
There is my $0.02, all these classes are offered on Fridays and Saturdays, and that sucks for some of us. |
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I see prices for 6-8 hours in the $80(way too low) to $250(good deal, depending on the class) range for a basic "this is the first class I've taken with this instructor, let's try him out". That's one day of basic function, manipulation, shakedown drills to get the students and instructor familiar with each other.
I don't think I'd want to take any sort of intermediate or advanced carbine type of class with any instructor or company without already doing a basic run-through with them. That "intermediate" and "advanced" is going to be pretty adjustable based on student experience too. What AFSOC considers basic might be advanced for me. Spending $500+ on a day or two of hell because I wasn't ready for it isn't my idea of practical use of my time or money. I think for any of these sort of unknowns a basic prerequisite schedule needs to be developed. Now if AFSOC is asking what we think should be in this basic sort of class, I like a lot of the suggestions above. If it was worth his time to teach 10+ students at $150 or so for a single day of getting to know you's and make sure nobody is in too deep of water for a more advanced approach, I'd probably be willing to pay for that. I'd maybe even be willing to pay $250 for this basics class if it was within an hour or two of StL. For a Novice, Intermediate, or Advanced class with appropriate evaluation and application drills I could see paying the $500, $800, and even $1500+ for a class that some of the Name Brand schools charge. While this is currently well outside my budget, It's probably well beyond my skill level. Baby steps. Priced accordingly. |
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You offer something Monday thru Thursday and I will be there with bells on. My problem with these classes is that I am contracted to work Fridays and Saturdays, and while I can get one or the other off it cuts my pay by about 2/3. I could make a Sunday work also as long as it started after 10a. There is my $0.02, all these classes are offered on Fridays and Saturdays, and that sucks for some of us. Not all of the classes are weekends only. In fact, I would say that most of the 'serious' classes are weekdays only, and YOU travel to the trainer, not the other way around. In regards to the topic: A lot of guys here are missing the point of carbine training of the level that AFSOC is talking. These aren't "How do I work my New Shiny Rifle and Hit that Red Bullseye Over There" training. That kind of training is exactly what Appleseed Shoots are for. Check them out. 80 Bucks for two days of basic rifle marksmanship training. What AFSOC is probably going to offer, and what guys like Pat Rogers and Wade Rorich and others offer is the 'I'm going to Iraq in 6 weeks with my Guard Unit, get me up to speed' type of stuff. They expect the participant to already have the basics down, and to have a 'warrior mindset' right from the start. They are expensive classes because you are paying a trainer who has been there and done that. The vast majority of those guys really don't want to train us 'civilians' for a wide range of reasons. While I would love to take more of them, they are expensive, and for my needs (HD, 3-Gun) they are really 'too much'. The Magpul DVDs are more than adequate for the average Arfcommer/Couch Commando. Just go out and practice those drills, and you're way ahead of the fudds at the range with their thuddy thuddy. All that said, I would like to see a nice $150 1 day course that touches on a lot of stuff the 'Real Courses' cover. The various positions, transitions with sidearm, transistions to weak hand with rifle, etc. But I don't really want Mini-Boot camp like the more serious classes. i do this for fun and mild competition, not because I am going to be Halo-ing into the Stan on a secret squirrel mission next Wednesday. |
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You offer something Monday thru Thursday and I will be there with bells on. My problem with these classes is that I am contracted to work Fridays and Saturdays, and while I can get one or the other off it cuts my pay by about 2/3. I could make a Sunday work also as long as it started after 10a. There is my $0.02, all these classes are offered on Fridays and Saturdays, and that sucks for some of us. Not all of the classes are weekends only. In fact, I would say that most of the 'serious' classes are weekdays only, and YOU travel to the trainer, not the other way around. In regards to the topic: A lot of guys here are missing the point of carbine training of the level that AFSOC is talking. These aren't "How do I work my New Shiny Rifle and Hit that Red Bullseye Over There" training. That kind of training is exactly what Appleseed Shoots are for. Check them out. 80 Bucks for two days of basic rifle marksmanship training. What AFSOC is probably going to offer, and what guys like Pat Rogers and Wade Rorich and others offer is the 'I'm going to Iraq in 6 weeks with my Guard Unit, get me up to speed' type of stuff. They expect the participant to already have the basics down, and to have a 'warrior mindset' right from the start. They are expensive classes because you are paying a trainer who has been there and done that. The vast majority of those guys really don't want to train us 'civilians' for a wide range of reasons. While I would love to take more of them, they are expensive, and for my needs (HD, 3-Gun) they are really 'too much'. The Magpul DVDs are more than adequate for the average Arfcommer/Couch Commando. Just go out and practice those drills, and you're way ahead of the fudds at the range with their thuddy thuddy. All that said, I would like to see a nice $150 1 day course that touches on a lot of stuff the 'Real Courses' cover. The various positions, transitions with sidearm, transistions to weak hand with rifle, etc. But I don't really want Mini-Boot camp like the more serious classes. i do this for fun and mild competition, not because I am going to be Halo-ing into the Stan on a secret squirrel mission next Wednesday. I'd like to see it, as long as the average Arfcommer/Couch Commando has been vetted to an extent that they're proven competent to be transitioning to a sidearm, do weak hand exchanges, crossing the body in a weak hand w/ rifle, executing combined force drills in a shoot house with gernades and nuclear boolits, and so on... Some of that stuff is what was being discussed in the Mountain Grove ND thread. I don't want to see any of that being done by anyone with any less experience than me, and probably not too many folks with only a bit more experience than me. At least NOT WITHOUT PRIOR EVALUATION! If such a class can be conducted in a safe manner, I'm all for it, but that assumes someone is doing some verification of ability before letting the Average Arfcommer onto the range. I don't want to be overwhelmed with watching other students for reckless gun-handling. I want most of that to be taken care of before I even go into the classroom with mostly unknown characters. |
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And that is precisely why a lot of the instructors don't like us civilians. We are a HUGE unknown. LEO and Military have a certain level of expected training.
So, outside of having to take a specific 'evaluation' course, the instructors have to either plan on everybody being a total n00b, or being Johnny Airborne. Both situations are obviously Not Good, and make it hard on the instructor, and the fellow classmates. I think that's one reason small classes work well. The course I took was limited to 10 students, with 2 instructors. They were able to eagle-eye constantly. We had a wide range of participants in that class, former mil, current LEO, and a few of us out-of-shape, low experienced civvies. It worked well, but even then, there were things were the instructor started to demonstrate something, then said 'Nah, half of you aren't ready for this'. As I alluded to, I'm looking for a good 'refresher' course for someone that has taken a more serious class with a rifle. But, obviously, some people want More or Less than that. Either way, I think this thread is showing that a lot of people want the Tier One level of training for the Appleseed level of tuition, and that is not going to happen. (I will gladly take my crow med-rare if it does!) |
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You offer something Monday thru Thursday and I will be there with bells on. My problem with these classes is that I am contracted to work Fridays and Saturdays, and while I can get one or the other off it cuts my pay by about 2/3. I could make a Sunday work also as long as it started after 10a. There is my $0.02, all these classes are offered on Fridays and Saturdays, and that sucks for some of us. Not all of the classes are weekends only. In fact, I would say that most of the 'serious' classes are weekdays only, and YOU travel to the trainer, not the other way around. In regards to the topic: A lot of guys here are missing the point of carbine training of the level that AFSOC is talking. These aren't "How do I work my New Shiny Rifle and Hit that Red Bullseye Over There" training. That kind of training is exactly what Appleseed Shoots are for. Check them out. 80 Bucks for two days of basic rifle marksmanship training. What AFSOC is probably going to offer, and what guys like Pat Rogers and Wade Rorich and others offer is the 'I'm going to Iraq in 6 weeks with my Guard Unit, get me up to speed' type of stuff. They expect the participant to already have the basics down, and to have a 'warrior mindset' right from the start. They are expensive classes because you are paying a trainer who has been there and done that. The vast majority of those guys really don't want to train us 'civilians' for a wide range of reasons. While I would love to take more of them, they are expensive, and for my needs (HD, 3-Gun) they are really 'too much'. The Magpul DVDs are more than adequate for the average Arfcommer/Couch Commando. Just go out and practice those drills, and you're way ahead of the fudds at the range with their thuddy thuddy. All that said, I would like to see a nice $150 1 day course that touches on a lot of stuff the 'Real Courses' cover. The various positions, transitions with sidearm, transistions to weak hand with rifle, etc. But I don't really want Mini-Boot camp like the more serious classes. i do this for fun and mild competition, not because I am going to be Halo-ing into the Stan on a secret squirrel mission next Wednesday. Here we go! $150 for what you sugested? No problem. Even better if it was close to the East Side. |
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6 hours $100 or less. If I could afford $150 - $250, I would have already taken the course through Todd in Columbia. Under a hundred bucks is a lot easier sell to the Mrs. Cover:
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I damned near missed this as most HTF threads. As usual I'm reading. Currently the smashing free ebook Scapegoats of the Empire: The True Story of Breaker Morant's Bushveldt Carbineers http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400611.txt AFSOC I'd do 150 or there abouts for a few hours of yall's time. I don't care if its noob style or whatever. I'm pretty sure you know what you're doing for the class you'll instruct or at least tailor it for our skills. |
| We are always interested in any group shoots or training classes in the KC area that will give us some trigger time with some drills and constructive feedback on how to improve our shooting and survival skills in a safe environment. $100-150 for a 4-8 hr class. |
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Quoted: What does the MOHTF want in a carbine class? How much does the average arfcommer expect to pay for said class? How long does the average arfcommer expect the class to be? Manipulation? Malfunction tech and clearing? Maintenance and Operation? Talk to me! Expected pay for a class would depend on facilities and the credentials/experience of the instructor, would you be teaching this class, would you have any co-instructors and if so what are their and your credentials. In the past I've paid $300-400+ for a two day class, carbine, pistol and carbine/pistol. The basic classes covered sight picture, weapons manipulation, malfunction drills, single/multiple target at multiple ranges, basic shooting positions, and transitions. After reading what some posters wrote, I feel they have an inflated idea of what can be fit into a 8 hour day when working with a class of mixed skill. If you want a one day class you simply can't expect to cover all that I listed above. |
| I was thinking about this today: I would probably pay more for a class that was "dumbed down" to my level. Not necessarily anything remedial, just appropriately slow so that a first time class taker and relative amature could take the time to really learn the basics, get comfortable and progress without being intimidated by the awesome skills possessed by the rest of the class. |
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I was thinking about this today: I would probably pay more for a class that was "dumbed down" to my level. Not necessarily anything remedial, just appropriately slow so that a first time class taker and relative amature could take the time to really learn the basics, get comfortable and progress without being intimidated by the awesome skills possessed by the rest of the class. i was thinking the same. i have both magpul dvd's (plus the handgun and shotgun) but i haven't had time to watch them. trying to do it when i have a good time to sit and rewatch parts of them at home and not on the road |
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I dunno much about nothin. Most of my gun knowledge was obtained watching Lethal Weapons, 1,2,3 & 4. Just last week I sharpened my high speed, low drag, couch potato operator carbine skills by watching Ronin.
Other than my Hollywood training there have been a few handgun tactic courses. They all tended to start with a basic course, when completed you would advance that instructors courses by step. If you hadn't done his basic, no way would one do his level 3 course. I'd fit into a basic entry level carbine course. No way would I consider an advanced carbine course without foundation to build from. Seems to me based on reading. Some valid concerns have been expressed addressing this. Not everyone is at the same operating level. I wouldn't feel good about being grouped with advanced carbine shooters. No more than I would tolerate being slowed down by beginning hand gunners. For now, the Magpul dvds as suggested will suffice. Note to Android: if you don't quit choosing my words for me your going to be smashed next visit to Sprint store. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: As usual I'm reading. Currently the smashing free ebook Scapegoats of the Empire: The True Story of Breaker Morant's Bushveldt Carbineers http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks04/0400611.txt Thanks for the link, that seems to be a good read |
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Expected pay for a class would depend on facilities and the credentials/experience of the instructor, would you be teaching this class, would you have any co-instructors and if so what are their and your credentials. In the past I've paid $300-400+ for a two day class, carbine, pistol and carbine/pistol. The basic classes covered sight picture, weapons manipulation, malfunction drills, single/multiple target at multiple ranges, basic shooting positions, and transitions.
After reading what some posters wrote, I feel they have an inflated idea of what can be fit into a 8 hour day when working with a class of mixed skill. If you want a one day class you simply can't expect to cover all that I listed above. VERY VERY VERY good points! |
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another good question is how many rounds a year does the instructor fire More importantly, where did he/she fire those rounds, and at whom? When I take a tactical zoombang carbine course, I want the instructor to be a real deal killing machine with that weapon. Sounds crass, but really, I can read books and watch videos on my own if the instructor is just a civilian like me with no fighting experience. Otherwise, it's not much of a course if it's just somebody telling me what they read/watched, right? |
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It would concern me that those questions are not being answered forthright, and would lead one to assume this is not a professionally taught class, which any class that charges money should be.
I have every uspsa video known to man and if me and my buddies want to get together and work on something that's time well spent, however I don't go and charge them for it and call it a class. |
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What does the MOHTF want in a carbine class? How much does the average arfcommer expect to pay for said class? How long does the average arfcommer expect the class to be? Manipulation? Malfunction tech and clearing? Maintenance and Operation? Talk to me! Expected pay for a class would depend on facilities and the credentials/experience of the instructor, would you be teaching this class, would you have any co-instructors and if so what are their and your credentials. In the past I've paid $300-400+ for a two day class, carbine, pistol and carbine/pistol. The basic classes covered sight picture, weapons manipulation, malfunction drills, single/multiple target at multiple ranges, basic shooting positions, and transitions. After reading what some posters wrote, I feel they have an inflated idea of what can be fit into a 8 hour day when working with a class of mixed skill. If you want a one day class you simply can't expect to cover all that I listed above. ...or 3-4 inches of sideways rain and wind with minor flooding in a field with a bunch of fellow HTF brothers
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Sounds like my kinda fun right there!!!!!!
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What does the MOHTF want in a carbine class? How much does the average arfcommer expect to pay for said class? How long does the average arfcommer expect the class to be? Manipulation? Malfunction tech and clearing? Maintenance and Operation? Talk to me! Expected pay for a class would depend on facilities and the credentials/experience of the instructor, would you be teaching this class, would you have any co-instructors and if so what are their and your credentials. In the past I've paid $300-400+ for a two day class, carbine, pistol and carbine/pistol. The basic classes covered sight picture, weapons manipulation, malfunction drills, single/multiple target at multiple ranges, basic shooting positions, and transitions. After reading what some posters wrote, I feel they have an inflated idea of what can be fit into a 8 hour day when working with a class of mixed skill. If you want a one day class you simply can't expect to cover all that I listed above. ...or 3-4 inches of sideways rain and wind with minor flooding in a field with a bunch of fellow HTF brothers
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