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AR15.COM
6/3/2010 6:30:19 PM EDT
Is there anywhere local to Wentzville that sells gas without ethanol in it? Im looking for it.
6/3/2010 6:36:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't think anywhere in the state does
6/4/2010 5:05:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Welcome to the wonderful world of ethanol !  You might as well get used to it, the government is going to force you to use it whether you like it or not.  I agree that we need to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil, but I don't feel that ethanol is the best solution.

Link to recent article on ethanol blended gasoline

Option to choose ethanol-free gasoline diminishing
Wednesday, May 26, 2010 | 9:09 p.m. CDT
BY STEVE EVERLY/The Kansas City Star
GARDNER, Kan. — Eric "Ric" Foster, the owner of a Gardner gasoline station, doesn't like ethanol. No, that's not quite right. He despises the stuff.

A sign in front of the station alerts motorists that his gas contains no ethanol, and in case you miss it, an electronic sign in the window boasts of the station's ethanol-free fuel.

For 16 years, he has taken pride in saying he has never knowingly sold a drop of ethanol.

But those days appear to be over if he wants to stay in business. His supplier recently told him that if he wanted to sell regular gas — by far the most popular grade — it would be E-10 or nothing.

"It's not right," said Foster. "I'm going to fight this tooth and nail."

The long goodbye for ethanol-free gas may be in its final stretch. It will snare dealers such as Foster and an unknown number of consumers who say they prefer pure gas, in part, because it delivers better fuel mileage and is worth it even if it costs more.

Many of them also think their engines have easier starts and are smoother running with ethanol-free gas, even though there are studies that show E-10 should not be a problem for most vehicles.

Ethanol blends, mainly E-10, now account for an estimated 80 percent of sales nationwide. With more ethanol being produced each year, it is a sure bet that pure gas is on the endangered list.

"I will never say never, but in the future we're going to pretty much be saturated with ethanol," said Al Manato, manager of fuel issues for the American Petroleum Institute, a trade group representing oil companies.

The federal Renewable Fuel Standard has in the last few years required rising amounts of ethanol production. It calls for even more, until by 2022 it requires 36 billion gallons of biofuels per year, nearly triple the current amount.

The ethanol industry, among other things, has been pushing to raise the 10-percent ethanol limit for most cars and trucks to find a place for the additional product.

But putting ethanol in gas that's currently sold without it is part of the strategy as well. The federal mandate has teeth to make it happen with fines for refiners that don't blend enough ethanol.

Foster, a Shell dealer, never worried about getting ethanol-free gas in the past, but Shell and other refiners are increasingly closing the option.

In an e-mail, a Shell spokeswoman said that in the Kansas City area, the company was not selling much gas without ethanol. And, she said, it needs to further increase the amount of ethanol it sells.

"For us to meet our extensive obligation under this mandate, we will need to blend essentially all of our gasoline with ethanol in the relatively near future," said Karyn Leonardi-Cattolica.

Shell uses the Magellan wholesale gas terminal in Kansas City, Kan., to distribute fuel. Because ethanol can't be sent by pipeline, it is blended at the terminal by Magellan. It can offer ethanol blends or clear gas. But "demand for our ethanol blending services are up in 2010 over 2009," said Bruce Heine, director of government and media affairs for Magellan.

Some fuel retailers and distributors are turning to state legislatures to keep the clear-gas option open.

Kansas does not require that refiners offer pure gas. A measure that would have required refiners to continue offering pure gas failed in the Legislature this year. The American Petroleum Institute and refineries in the state lobbied against it.

Missouri continues to require that pure gas be offered by refiners. But Missouri also mandates that retailers sell regular and mid-grade ethanol blends when they are cheaper than pure gas.

Ron Leone, executive director of the Missouri Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Store Association, said some retailers were finding a niche market for premium fuel without ethanol.

Much of the pressure to ensure that pure gas can be bought at wholesale terminals comes from distributors who deliver fuel to retail stations. If the distributors buy clear gas and blend in the ethanol they can get a tax credit.

But pressure also comes from retailers such as Foster.

Tom Palace, executive director of the Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Store Association, said he continued to hear complaints about not being able to buy pure gas in Kansas. His group is considering whether to ask the Kansas Legislature to take up the issue again.

Demand for blends especially has soared when they are cheaper than pure gas. That has been the case in Kansas.

For instance, at Foster's E&J Food Mart, regular fuel on a recent day was $2.88 a gallon. But down the block, a station was selling a regular ethanol blend for $2.73. With consumers typically looking for the cheapest price, that is an effective draw.

But Foster gained a following, in part, by pointing out that pure gas gets better mileage. A gallon of E-10 has about 3 percent less energy than a gallon of pure gas. Many of his customers, such as Diane Smith, are convinced the improved mileage is even higher.

"This is where we buy our gas even if it is higher," she said.

When Foster was first told that by June 1 he would have to start buying E-10, he was convinced he could not do it. He said he would close the store before selling any ethanol or keep it open selling premium fuel. He is told that higher-priced premium will still be available without ethanol — long enough to sell the business.

He said he still didn't think it was right and wondered whether the government should be sued for requiring ethanol in fuel. But as he has talked to his customers about what is happening, he has considered the once unthinkable. They tell him that if they have to buy E-10, they would prefer to buy it from him.

"If you can't keep them happy, why be in business," he said.
6/4/2010 5:36:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Ethanol-blended gas sucks for the consumer.  Less power at the same price as "clear gas".  But hey, our gubmint knows what's best for us, right?  
6/4/2010 5:56:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Not only does it suck ass, but it doesn't keep and will varnish carbs in a few weeks without some form of stabilizer in it.  I like leaded 110 myself.  more power, burns cooler and smells GREAT!
6/4/2010 5:58:41 AM EDT
[#5]




Quoted:

Not only does it suck ass, but it doesn't keep and will varnish carbs in a few weeks without some form of stabilizer in it. I like leaded 110 myself. more power, burns cooler and smells GREAT!




You can thank all of the Missouri politicians who actually owned a financial interest in MO ethanol plants for ramming this down your throats.
6/4/2010 6:18:24 AM EDT
[#6]
It takes more than one gallon of gasoline to run the farm equipment to grow enough grain to make one gallon of ethanol.

Without government subsidies for ethanol farmers, one gallon of ethanol would cost about 5x the price of one gallon of gasoline.

6/4/2010 6:31:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Ethanol is a great idea....when the cars are MADE to run on it.  Having a low compression car and trying to use 105 octane Ethanol is just asking for issues.

Good luck, but I'm pretty sure straight gasoline is gone.

ETA:
Check this out:  Pure Gas
6/4/2010 8:59:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Check the nearest MFA station (BreakTime in Columbia.)  I think there's one in Wright City.  That gas station near the drag strip in Foristell used to sell other types of fuel like 100LL.

It's been a while, but they used to have two blends at the pump, one with e-10, or with none.

6/4/2010 9:10:15 AM EDT
[#9]
I believe a while back , all gas sold in Misouri is required to contain ethanol

Yes, some good stuff around drag strip areas

Fuel additives/stabilizers or Marvel Mystery Oil (an old favorite) almost a must anymore
6/4/2010 9:26:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:

Ethanol is a great idea....when the cars are MADE to run on it.

<snip>



Even this statement is incorrect. What about motorcycles which use less gas and will not run on ethanol.
6/4/2010 9:39:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Ethanol is a great idea....when the cars are MADE to run on it.

<snip>



Even this statement is incorrect. What about motorcycles which use less gas and will not run on ethanol.


He means cars made to run on E85......

My Explorer can run on E85.  I get 3-4 mpg less, so I will only buy E85 when it's 25% cheaper than regular.  It idles kind of rough, and runs a bit hotter.  I won't fill up on E85 if the tank is empty for these reasons.  So I guess I run on "E50" max.

It used to be that Premium 92/93 did not have ethanol.  It's BS that you can't pay more not to have that water attracting crap in the tank of a classic car.

6/4/2010 10:29:34 AM EDT
[#12]
around where I live I only see this stuff with Ethanol in it. I remember the days when it had lead in it and it had way more Octane. However there is a Gas Station in Town that sells Race Fuel I guess I would say it has 110 or something like that I am not sure if this has Ethanol or not. The sign reads that it is illegal to use this type of Fuel in Road Cars (not the exact wording but something like that).
Can you mix this stuff with regular Gas let's say you get a 5 gal container with this Racing Fuel and than top of you car enough to leave the room for the other Gas what would happen to the Engine? Just wondering if that if possible I sure would love to drive my Audi with some better Fuel.
In Europe or particular in Germany they do not have ethanol in the Gas they sell this must be just a thing that is done in the US.
6/4/2010 10:41:13 AM EDT
[#13]
You don't want to run that stuff in your regular car/truck.  It will run like a raped ape on either, but just for a very short distance.

Anything with that much octane has to have lead in it.....and you're going to gum up your spark plugs, valves, and everything else in your car that is meant to run without lead.  You can always add a lead scavenging agent like TCP, I suppose.  But it's going to get expensive.

100LL AvGas is not necessarily "low lead".  It's only low lead compared to 100/130 which 4 grams of tetra-ethyl lead vs. the 2 grams in 100LL.  It's meant for engines that are designed to run on leaded fuel (cushions the valves).

And jet fuel is not "rocket fuel" either.  It's just a highly refined kerosene, no oil/lubes added, just anti icing additives (Prist).  You can burn it in your diesel truck if you add some oil to it, but don't ever put it in a gasoline engine.
6/4/2010 11:24:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Find a local marina, or a gas station around a large lake. Marine grade gas is ethanol free.
6/4/2010 12:18:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:

<snip>

He means cars made to run on E85......

<snip>



And I mean motorcycles weren't made to run on E10.
6/4/2010 12:32:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Regarding higher (than ~92) octane gas, if you car isn't specifically designed to take advantage of the higher octane it will run WORSE than it will on garden variety 87-92 octane pump gas.  Remember that octane is is purely a measure of how resistant the gas is to detonation (ignition) and higher octane gas actually take more spark to get it to light off.

My piddly Neon was spec'd from the factory to make its rated power using 91 octane or better (within reason) gas.  Running the cheap 87 octane stuff merely results in the computer pulling out some timing advance and a little loss in power.  But for around-town driving the 87 stuff works just fine.

As to running high-octane "race gas" in modern street cars, DON'T!  The lead in the race gas will clog your catalytic converter and ruin it and that is NOT a cheap item to replace.
6/4/2010 4:08:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:

<snip>

He means cars made to run on E85......

<snip>



And I mean motorcycles weren't made to run on E10.


You're right motorcycles weren't made to run on E10, but there is no reason they can't.  In fact, they are probably better suited to running on it for the simple fact that they generally have a higher compression ratio and require higher octane.  (My bike is 12.2:1, I use 91+)  I am also EFI....the Carb. fellas will have a harder problem and possibly need to be re-jeted to compensate.

The downfalls would be pretty much the same as with any vehicle:
- lower fuel economy
- higher combustion temps
- possible effect on seals
- higher possibility of water contamination

These problems are probably more detrimental on a bike because of the rev's and cooling ability (looking at you air cooled folks).  I know I said there is no reason they can't, and then listed a bunch of shit that would hurt them.....

My turbo Supra's specifically stated to not use "gasohol", but that is a nearly a 20 year old vehicle we are talking about.
6/4/2010 8:14:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Find a local marina, or a gas station around a large lake. Marine grade gas is ethanol free.


Marina gas is nearly twice the price of gas from your typical gas station.  But hey, if you can afford it, more power to you.    I pump solely from QuikTrip, and I remember when they started using "up to 10% ethanol blend" about 2-3 years ago.  I still pump there, but I feel like my gas mileage went down a bit once I started using that gas.  6-7 years ago, Casey's gas stations would sell the ethanol blend gas (well, they still do, but they were the only one at that time), and I remember their higher octane gas being the same price as the 87 gas for that reason.

I dunno...maybe it's all a mis-perception but I feel like my cars all started getting worse gas mileage after running that crap.
6/5/2010 4:33:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Find a local marina, or a gas station around a large lake. Marine grade gas is ethanol free.


Marina gas is nearly twice the price of gas from your typical gas station.  But hey, if you can afford it, more power to you.    I pump solely from QuikTrip, and I remember when they started using "up to 10% ethanol blend" about 2-3 years ago.  I still pump there, but I feel like my gas mileage went down a bit once I started using that gas.  6-7 years ago, Casey's gas stations would sell the ethanol blend gas (well, they still do, but they were the only one at that time), and I remember their higher octane gas being the same price as the 87 gas for that reason.

I dunno...maybe it's all a mis-perception but I feel like my cars all started getting worse gas mileage after running that crap.


The stuff is crap it nets you worse mileage, attracts water like crazy and is hard on your engine. I was hoping one of you guys maybe knew something I did not and could tell me where to get clear gas. Even if it was a little more expensive it would be worth it for my truck.
6/5/2010 6:17:06 AM EDT
[#20]
Things like this are why I now drive my diesel more often than my gasser. Although if the fools at the epa have their way diesels are going to be choked down to the point where they clean the air as they drive but fuel mileage goes from miles per gallon to gallons per mile. Until then I will continue to enjoy my diesel and burn B20 biodiesel whenever I can find it ... all hail diesel the superior fuel!
6/5/2010 3:15:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Things like this are why I now drive my diesel more often than my gasser. Although if the fools at the epa have their way diesels are going to be choked down to the point where they clean the air as they drive but fuel mileage goes from miles per gallon to gallons per mile. Until then I will continue to enjoy my diesel and burn B20 biodiesel whenever I can find it ... all hail diesel the superior fuel!


Yeah, but your rods are knockin'.  
6/5/2010 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Things like this are why I now drive my diesel more often than my gasser. Although if the fools at the epa have their way diesels are going to be choked down to the point where they clean the air as they drive but fuel mileage goes from miles per gallon to gallons per mile. Until then I will continue to enjoy my diesel and burn B20 biodiesel whenever I can find it ... all hail diesel the superior fuel!


Yeah, but your rods are knockin'.  


you guys probably wouldnt believe some of the things people have told me about my truck ... there are a lot of misinformed people out there ... although they were concerned enough to try and warn me about my truck .. doubt they would bother to do that in some of those communist states.
6/6/2010 6:31:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Things like this are why I now drive my diesel more often than my gasser. Although if the fools at the epa have their way diesels are going to be choked down to the point where they clean the air as they drive but fuel mileage goes from miles per gallon to gallons per mile. Until then I will continue to enjoy my diesel and burn B20 biodiesel whenever I can find it ... all hail diesel the superior fuel!


Yeah, but your rods are knockin'.  


you guys probably wouldnt believe some of the things people have told me about my truck ... there are a lot of misinformed people out there ... although they were concerned enough to try and warn me about my truck .. doubt they would bother to do that in some of those communist states.


The mileage on my '99 Cummins truck went down 2-3 mpg when they went to the Ultra Low Sulpher fuel.  Diesel vehicles are not immune from the government making changes for, what it considers, our benefit.

6/6/2010 7:21:22 AM EDT
[#24]
I had the same problem with my '98 12 valve. B2-B5 puts a lot of lubrication back into the fuel and is way better on your fuel system than the ulsd crap. The diesel particulate filters and nox requirements are a joke and are killing diesel engines. When all of the manufacturers had to add dpfs to their trucks mileage dropped from 20+mpg (depending on your vehicle of course) to less than 10 mpg. What a joke .. burn twice as much fuel for cleaner emissions. Im glad that Missouri doesnt currently check for diesel particulate filters or catalytic converters but I was told its coming.



6/6/2010 10:58:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I had the same problem with my '98 12 valve. B2-B5 puts a lot of lubrication back into the fuel and is way better on your fuel system than the ulsd crap. The diesel particulate filters and nox requirements are a joke and are killing diesel engines. When all of the manufacturers had to add dpfs to their trucks mileage dropped from 20+mpg (depending on your vehicle of course) to less than 10 mpg. What a joke .. burn twice as much fuel for cleaner emissions. Im glad that Missouri doesnt currently check for diesel particulate filters or catalytic converters but I was told its coming.


Nobody in my area is selling Bio that I am aware of.  A few guys that I know are running various fuel concoctions.  Some mix in used fryer oil, others run straight used auto trans fluid.

2 other friends with '08 & '09 Dodge trucks claim 2-3 mpg improvement when the DPF is removed.

Technically, by the book, removal or alteration of any emissions control device is enough to fail Missouri state vehicle inspection anywhere in the state.  Of course, everyone knows an inspection station that might not follow the book to the letter...

6/6/2010 11:13:58 AM EDT
[#26]
I am waiting on the nuclear powered automobiles myself. I heard that the accidents are terrible.

Add goodness for page two ownership...
6/6/2010 12:00:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I am waiting on the nuclear powered automobiles myself. I heard that the accidents are terrible.

Add goodness for page two ownership...


Great, thats all we need ... terrorists driving around in nuclear powered cars
6/6/2010 1:20:19 PM EDT
[#28]
I heard they just developed a car that runs on water........

Problem is that it only runs on water from the Gulf of Mexico.  
6/6/2010 1:47:59 PM EDT
[#29]
On a side note since we have completely derailed the original thread ... how well do you think hydrogen powered cars will do in Missouri ... I mean think about it .. the exhaust is essentially water. What do you think that would do to the already ridiculous humidity?!?
6/6/2010 2:18:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am waiting on the nuclear powered automobiles myself. I heard that the accidents are terrible.

Add goodness for page two ownership...


Great, thats all we need ... terrorists driving around in nuclear powered cars


Funny, I don't feel like a terrorist...
6/6/2010 6:28:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
On a side note since we have completely derailed the original thread ... how well do you think hydrogen powered cars will do in Missouri ... I mean think about it .. the exhaust is essentially water. What do you think that would do to the already ridiculous humidity?!?


If it gets any more humid it will either rain or we will all drown.