[ARCHIVED THREAD] - CCW practices... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/2/2009 7:11:00 PM EDT
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I carry my G21 often...my friends carry often. They seem surprised when they find out I carry with one in the pipe. IMO the weapon is a paperweight with a full mag unless there's one in the pipe.
Is this so strange? Am I paranoid? I would like to call it "being prepared". I guess my thought has always been if I gotta pull down on a BG then I'm gonna damn well light it off not just wave it around trying to rack the slide. |
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I carry my G21 often...my friends carry often. They seem surprised when they find out I carry with one in the pipe. IMO the weapon is a paperweight with a full mag unless there's one in the pipe. Is this so strange? Am I paranoid? I would like to call it "being prepared". I guess my thought has always been if I gotta pull down on a BG then I'm gonna damn well light it off not just wave it around trying to rack the slide. You are not alone ........ |
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Uh..... your friends are morons, sorry no offense. But seriously that is the dumbest thing ive heard in a long time. Seriously a carry gun should always have one in the pipe, for other guns its different. (My nightstand gun, ar and 870 dont have one in the pipe as I want to make sure im fully awake before I would have to use it, but carry guns should always have one in the tube.
A carry gun is designed for you to pull it out and use it instantly should something happen, not sit there rack the slide and then put it into action. |
| Yeah dude, you aren't alone, I ALWAYS have one in the pipe. If I have to shed leather, someone is getting shot and I'm not giving them an advantage by me having to rack the slide. My friends including those that carry think I'm nuts and one even told me, I don't wanna shoot anyone. I said, well. I don't wanna shoot anyone either, but if I have to, I'm not wasting any time about it and giving them an opening to shoot me first. |
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Well I don't carry due to not taking the class yet, but I carry around the house and in the truck. I carry a springer 1911 GI cocked and locked, 9 rounds total. Then I generally have two 7 end mags in my pocket "just in case".
I wouldn't feel as safe carrying a Glock with one in the pipe, which is why I don't carry a Glock. I don't feel as comfortable With my wife's Springfield XD which has a grip safety as well as the trigger safety. Lunyou |
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oh yeah,I forgot to add that I don't have the mag stuffed to the hilt. I usually leave 2 or 3 out. Let me guess, so you don't wear out the spring? If that is the case just load it up, it doesn't make any difference to the spring whether or not. Of is fully loaded or not. Lunyou |
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Many times when the time comes that you have to use your CCW you won't be expecting it, if you were you may have been able to get out of the situation (though not always) so if some guy comes up at you say within 10 feet (which hopefully won't happen, but it does so..) pulls a knife and is in action, or pulls a gun or w/e. Now you have to quickly divert, pull, fire if that is your choice of how you will handle it. Now try that without one in the chamber. Guy is that close and you only gain half a second by the divert, and now you have to pull the gun out of the holster, up to your other hand, pull the slide back, aim and fire. More than likely things will not turn out good for you and you may either get the gun taken away or never get a round chambered...
Food for thought. |
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oh yeah,I forgot to add that I don't have the mag stuffed to the hilt. I usually leave 2 or 3 out. Let me guess, so you don't wear out the spring? If that is the case just load it up, it doesn't make any difference to the spring whether or not. Of is fully loaded or not. Lunyou To each his own, but I've left mags loaded at capacity and had stove piping issues. I haven't had any since starting this practice. I also don't wanna replace mags every couple years (I know its not that much $$) if I don't have to. I carry an extra mag if I need more than whats in the gun. |
Full mag, round chambered and safety off
Ok, so only double actions are carried that way with hammer down of course. Hell, my Keltec doesn't even have a safety. On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position. |
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This is why I carry a pistol with the chamber empty. Full mag, round chambered and safety off
Ok, so only double actions are carried that way with hammer down of course. Hell, my Keltec doesn't even have a safety. On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position. 
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My biggest fear is not being bum rushed by the IDF on a dark street late at night. If the Israelis want you, you are f*cked no matter what you are carrying, caliber, number of rounds, or whether or not there is a round in the chamber. Tell them to try the Tueller Drill. If they think they can draw from concealment, rack the slide, get on target, and then fire, all in under 1.5 seconds, well then they can carry unchambered. 
I fear being somewhere when some crackpot starts walking around shooting people and the only thing I can do is hide under a table and wait until I am slaughtered. 
If you are going up against Doc Holiday and he tells you that he is your huckleberry, maybe you should stay at home. 
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Its foolish to carry a weapon with an empty chamber, you might as well get a holster made for a hammer. A ccw encounter is most likely going to be a defensive, I don't have any intention of handicaping myself by adding another step of racking the slide before I bust some crackhead in the face. An empty chamber is like walking around in condition white, oblivious to my surrounding environments.
PTK |
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IMO the weapon is a paperweight with a full mag unless there's one in the pipe. That's gonna be a really loud "click" if there isn't one in the pipe. And the expression on your face will be immortalized on your tombstone.
Some years ago I got pulled over one time for some traffic infraction. As the officer approached my door I stuck both hands out the window and calmly said "I have a pistol on the front seat". He got me out, frisked me and then as he was reaching for the pistol asked if it was loaded. I said "It sure wouldn't be much good if it wasn't".  We both went our merry ways soon after.
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On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position. Assuming you're talking about a 1911 pattern pistol that's an easy fix, with a Dremel no less. Slightly deepen the lower (safe) detent notch with a "ball" bit. |
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I keep one in the pipe every time all the time. I keep my defense guns loaded up and ready to roll.
I have moved to a shotgun for home defense type stuff. I live in an apartment / condo and I can't just imagine the news if I kick one off and it goes through next door. I have paper thin walls and I feel much better about a "missed shot" if it's buck shot rather than a 230grain HP. I also think the sheer sound of action is not mistakable for a "you're welcome to come in" in any way shape or form. If they come all the way up stairs to steal my crappy 13 inch TV, get thru my dog, and my bed room door... I used to carry a g27. It didn't have one in the pipe. I carried it on an ankle holster and honestly, I was afraid that if I ever pulled it, not only would I make a mess in my pants on both sides, but I might also shoot my damn foot off. I think as long as you practice whatever method makes you feel safe and do stray from it, you're good to go. |
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I fear being somewhere when some crackpot starts walking around shooting people and the only thing I can do is hide under a table and wait until I am slaughtered. No worries, mate. You don't fit under tables. 
Somehow, that does not make me feel any better... 
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This is why I carry a pistol with the chamber empty. Full mag, round chambered and safety off
Ok, so only double actions are carried that way with hammer down of course. Hell, my Keltec doesn't even have a safety. On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position.
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My biggest fear is not being bum rushed by the IDF on a dark street late at night. If the Israelis want you, you are f*cked no matter what you are carrying, caliber, number of rounds, or whether or not there is a round in the chamber. Tell them to try the Tueller Drill. If they think they can draw from concealment, rack the slide, get on target, and then fire, all in under 1.5 seconds, well then they can carry unchambered.
I fear being somewhere when some crackpot starts walking around shooting people and the only thing I can do is hide under a table and wait until I am slaughtered.
If you are going up against Doc Holiday and he tells you that he is your huckleberry, maybe you should stay at home. So, only highly trained HSLD types can bumrush a person? Come on...You step out of your car after pulling into a spot, get out, and there's a guy at the end of your vehicle with a tire iron, and he steps towards you... 'Oh, pardon me sir! Mind if I draw my weapon, rack the slide, flip on my surefire, and present my weapon to you in a proper weaver stance?' Reason I think this is important is I took a carbine course, and we literally practiced the Drill with the instructor and a blue M4 training gun. I was standing, 'rifle' in my hands, instructor standing about 15 feet away. All I had to do was raise the gun and say bang. We did it twice, and both times, I was on my back, wind knocked out of me, knee in my throat, and 'my' M4's barrel pressed firmly against my temple. Granted, the guy was former South African Army and I'm joe schmoe computer tech, but still. It wakes you up (or in my case, nearly puts you out!). We also tried the same drill with the other class members to mixed effects. It showed me that just because you carry a gun, doesn't mean you're always going to win a fight against even an unarmed opponent. (Now, to be honest, my draws from concealment time is horribly slow, and I can't hand-to-hand at all, I really need to do something about that.) |
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This is why I carry a pistol with the chamber empty. Full mag, round chambered and safety off
Ok, so only double actions are carried that way with hammer down of course. Hell, my Keltec doesn't even have a safety. On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position.
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My biggest fear is not being bum rushed by the IDF on a dark street late at night. If the Israelis want you, you are f*cked no matter what you are carrying, caliber, number of rounds, or whether or not there is a round in the chamber. Tell them to try the Tueller Drill. If they think they can draw from concealment, rack the slide, get on target, and then fire, all in under 1.5 seconds, well then they can carry unchambered.
I fear being somewhere when some crackpot starts walking around shooting people and the only thing I can do is hide under a table and wait until I am slaughtered.
If you are going up against Doc Holiday and he tells you that he is your huckleberry, maybe you should stay at home. So, only highly trained HSLD types can bumrush a person? Come on...You step out of your car after pulling into a spot, get out, and there's a guy at the end of your vehicle with a tire iron, and he steps towards you... 'Oh, pardon me sir! Mind if I draw my weapon, rack the slide, flip on my surefire, and present my weapon to you in a proper weaver stance?' Reason I think this is important is I took a carbine course, and we literally practiced the Drill with the instructor and a blue M4 training gun. I was standing, 'rifle' in my hands, instructor standing about 15 feet away. All I had to do was raise the gun and say bang. We did it twice, and both times, I was on my back, wind knocked out of me, knee in my throat, and 'my' M4's barrel pressed firmly against my temple. Granted, the guy was former South African Army and I'm joe schmoe computer tech, but still. It wakes you up (or in my case, nearly puts you out!). We also tried the same drill with the other class members to mixed effects. It showed me that just because you carry a gun, doesn't mean you're always going to win a fight against even an unarmed opponent. (Now, to be honest, my draws from concealment time is horribly slow, and I can't hand-to-hand at all, I really need to do something about that.) I have seen to many ADs in my life time and all of them were pistols with one in the pipe. I usually don't carry a pistol with a round chambered. That is my choice. 
And have you looked at tire irons lately. One would have better luck pistol whipping someone with a Glock. 
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| I can honestly say I have never seen an ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE in real life, I have however witnessed a few NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES. The gun won't go off if you don't pull the trigger, and if you don't think you can trust yourself to not put your finger on the trigger until you're ready why do you even carry? |
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A few comments...................
IF you handle a weapon enough you WILL have an AD, FACT! Even Massad Ayoob states this. This is where training comes in "Never point your muzzle at anything you don't intend to destroy". Carrying a Glock (or any other weapon) NEVER place your finger into the trigger guard until on target and ready to fire. A lot of Officers have made fun of the fact I have a New York trigger in my Glocks. I've had to point my weapon at PEOPLE way too many times.......................I want a heavy trigger pull for those circumstances. If you are only shooting at paper a nice crisp four pound trigger is great. For serious work I'll take an eight pound trigger thank you. Considering I date back to the days when I HAD to carry a revolver I don't look at an eight pound trigger as a hindrance (and back then I had to qualify at FIFTY YARDS! And yes I load my Glocks with at least one round less than capacity. If I can't end the situation with TWENTY FRIKKEN ROUNDS (17 + Taylor Freelance Extension), I still can change magazines (four 20 round spares!) PursuitSS |
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On the rare occasion I do carry a SA pistol it is full mag load, round chambered, hammer back and safety ON. And I check that damn safety lever frequently. I have had some slip off into the "fire" position. Assuming you're talking about a 1911 pattern pistol that's an easy fix, with a Dremel no less. Slightly deepen the lower (safe) detent notch with a "ball" bit. A dremel you say.. hmm.. sounds like fun. Actually it has happened on a 1911 and a BHP type pistol. Maybe it is the holster? Then again I have been seriously considering going to a .357 snubbie. |
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It is simple really.
If you don't trust your weapon to be carried locked and cocked then you should not be carrying that weapon. If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. If the safety "slips off" frequently then carry another f'ing weapon period. If you cannot safely carry it with a round in the chamber without killing yourself or someone else inadvertantly then don't carry the damned thing. NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... When I carry a weapon and I feel I am carrying it for good reason that weapon WILL have a round in the chamber. I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. At this time when I carry, I carry a glock 17 and I carry one in the pipe when needed. If this is not needed then neither is the weapon. If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If not then you should be carrying a round in the chamber, Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. It then will fall to mindset, you have to THINK that you are not going to be shot and even if you are shot then you are not dead, and even if you are dead then you don't know it. And you need to do whatever it takes to survive that gunfight, and having to dick with your slide while you should be shooting the fucking weapon is boot dumb. Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. If you are fumbling with the damned slide then it is already a done deal, I think I am done...
Not that I have a passing knowledge of this very thing anyway. Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster... 
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I had a pile of witty comments and smart ass remarks, but AFSOC already said everything I was going to say, except for one thing.
Downloading your magazines in an attempt to ensure reliability is irrational and not backed up by any real world evidence whatsoever. I don't care what the old man at the gun show bullshitted you about his 20 round mags back in 'Nam. "That's just what I do because it makes me feel better" is not an excuse for irrationality. I could decorate my CCW gun with a Native American "dreamcatcher" weave hanging off of the lanyard loop, and tell everyone that it helps guide my hollowpoints straight to my enemies' souls, and doing that wouldn't be ANY more irrational than someone who downloads their mags by 3 rounds and tells people they believe it helps feeding. There is fact and then there is irrationality, and irrationality is the province of the left wingers, not us. Load your magazines to the capacity they were designed for. If you have to second guess the manufacturer because of problems with that magazine or the gun it is riding in, then I suggest you sell that piece of shit and buy a gun you really can trust your life to. Even with *gasp* a magazine loaded to the manufacturer's specifications! |
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It is simple really. If you don't trust your weapon to be carried locked and cocked then you should not be carrying that weapon. If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. If the safety "slips off" frequently then carry another f'ing weapon period. If you cannot safely carry it with a round in the chamber without killing yourself or someone else inadvertantly then don't carry the damned thing. NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... When I carry a weapon and I feel I am carrying it for good reason that weapon WILL have a round in the chamber. I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. At this time when I carry, I carry a glock 17 and I carry one in the pipe when needed. If this is not needed then neither is the weapon. If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If not then you should be carrying a round in the chamber, Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. It then will fall to mindset, you have to THINK that you are not going to be shot and even if you are shot then you are not dead, and even if you are dead then you don't know it. And you need to do whatever it takes to survive that gunfight, and having to dick with your slide while you should be shooting the fucking weapon is boot dumb. Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. If you are fumbling with the damned slide then it is already a done deal, I think I am done...
Not that I have a passing knowledge of this very thing anyway. Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shape ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster...
Superstition abounds in the firearms world, along with downright stupidity, pure bullshit, blah blah blah. There ARE real world reasons for downloading "SOME" magazines and SOME reasons. For instance downloading a 30 round AR mag to 28? WHY do we do it? What VALID reason do we do it? Well the old wives tale is for reliability, which is pure bullshit, but what this does do for us is give us a better chance to get that mag latched in a weapon with the bolt closed. In handguns I have never heard anyone advocate downloading magazines... Also any modern weapon that cannot be dry fired without damaging the weapon needs to be shitcanned and replaced with one that CAN be dryfired!!! |
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I had a pile of witty comments and smart ass remarks, but AFSOC already said everything I was going to say, except for one thing. Downloading your magazines in an attempt to ensure reliability is irrational and not backed up by any real world evidence whatsoever. I don't care what the old man at the gun show bullshitted you about his 20 round mags back in 'Nam. "That's just what I do because it makes me feel better" is not an excuse for irrationality. I could decorate my CCW gun with a Native American "dreamcatcher" weave hanging off of the lanyard loop, and tell everyone that it helps guide my hollowpoints straight to my enemies' souls, and doing that wouldn't be ANY more irrational than someone who downloads their mags by 3 rounds and tells people they believe it helps feeding. There is fact and then there is irrationality, and irrationality is the province of the left wingers, not us. Load your magazines to the capacity they were designed for. If you have to second guess the manufacturer because of problems with that magazine or the gun it is riding in, then I suggest you sell that piece of shit and buy a gun you really can trust your life to. Even with *gasp* a magazine loaded to the manufacturer's specifications! Ya, what he said! |
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It is simple really. If you don't trust your weapon to be carried locked and cocked then you should not be carrying that weapon. If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. If the safety "slips off" frequently then carry another f'ing weapon period. If you cannot safely carry it with a round in the chamber without killing yourself or someone else inadvertantly then don't carry the damned thing. NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... When I carry a weapon and I feel I am carrying it for good reason that weapon WILL have a round in the chamber. I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. At this time when I carry, I carry a glock 17 and I carry one in the pipe when needed. If this is not needed then neither is the weapon. If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If not then you should be carrying a round in the chamber, Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. It then will fall to mindset, you have to THINK that you are not going to be shot and even if you are shot then you are not dead, and even if you are dead then you don't know it. And you need to do whatever it takes to survive that gunfight, and having to dick with your slide while you should be shooting the fucking weapon is boot dumb. Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. If you are fumbling with the damned slide then it is already a done deal, I think I am done...
Not that I have a passing knowledge of this very thing anyway. Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster...
If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. I agree with this.
NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... I agree with this after fixing it. 
I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. AFSOC needs more work here... 
If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If I have time to draw my pistol, aim , and fire; I also have time to chamber a round.
Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. Drawing my pistol and chamber a round is "Plan A". If I don't have time to do "Plan A"; it is a damned good time to come up with "Plan B". I am not to proud to duck, run, and/or hide.
Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. Well sh!t, here is a "Plan B".
Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster... Stabbed...No. Gutted...No. Half butchered...No. Get your gun out of the holster...No. Ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet...My even fatter out of shape ass will help you here with the distance that is now 10.5 feet and I am going to get cut (again) but so are you and with your own knife.
Now this brings up my point. If you are within 10 feet or closer and drawing your pistol. I know that I can not beat you to the draw (round chambered or not) but I am sure as hell going to give you a run for the money on your pistol. F*ck all this quick draw CCW sh!t; uniformed police officers open carry, have a round chambered and are more likely to be killed with their own pistols.
If someone surprises you and attacks you. surprise them with an attack of your own and one they did not plan on. 
Stop watching all those westerns and see "Point of No Return" with Bridget Fonda. She takes a handler's pistol from him and.. Click... No round chambered. Listen to what her handler has to say.
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It is simple really. If you don't trust your weapon to be carried locked and cocked then you should not be carrying that weapon. If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. If the safety "slips off" frequently then carry another f'ing weapon period. If you cannot safely carry it with a round in the chamber without killing yourself or someone else inadvertantly then don't carry the damned thing. NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... When I carry a weapon and I feel I am carrying it for good reason that weapon WILL have a round in the chamber. I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. At this time when I carry, I carry a glock 17 and I carry one in the pipe when needed. If this is not needed then neither is the weapon. If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If not then you should be carrying a round in the chamber, Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. It then will fall to mindset, you have to THINK that you are not going to be shot and even if you are shot then you are not dead, and even if you are dead then you don't know it. And you need to do whatever it takes to survive that gunfight, and having to dick with your slide while you should be shooting the fucking weapon is boot dumb. Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. If you are fumbling with the damned slide then it is already a done deal, I think I am done...
Not that I have a passing knowledge of this very thing anyway. Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster...
If you have to repeatedly finger fuck the safety to make sure it is on then the weapon is worthless. I agree with this.
NOT carrying a LOADED weapon is the ultimate dumbass move... I agree with this after fixing it.
I have had to break this damned habit with people who should know fucking better. AFSOC needs more work here...
If you "THINK" you can draw the weapon and do an IDF weapon load prior to the bad guy whom I presume is about to shoot you or blugeon you or stab you, or you shouldn't even be drawing the weapon. So from the typical engagement range of 5' do you think you can accomplish this act? If I have time to draw my pistol, aim , and fire; I also have time to chamber a round.
Even with your weapon in a holster and an already drawn weapon at 5' and if you go for your gun even if you bring it out you ARE going to be shot, if you aren't then you are lucky, but if you draw your sidearm and it doesn't do anything except possibly beating that person before they shoot you, you are probably going to be shot twice. Drawing my pistol and chamber a round is "Plan A". If I don't have time to do "Plan A"; it is a damned good time to come up with "Plan B". I am not to proud to duck, run, and/or hide.
Duke can attest that it is possible to disarm a person quicker than you can think about it being done. Well sh!t, here is a "Plan B".
Teuhler drills, ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet before you get off a single shot, I guarantee it. If I am coming from 5 feet you are stabbed and gutted and half butchered before you get your gun out of the holster or get whatever clothing item is preventing you from getting your weapon out of the holster... Stabbed...No. Gutted...No. Half butchered...No. Get your gun out of the holster...No. Ah yes, even my fat out of shap ass will make it to you with a knife from 21 feet...My even fatter out of shape ass will help you here with the distance that is now 10.5 feet and I am going to get cut (again) but so are you and with your own knife.
Now this brings up my point. If you are within 10 feet or closer and drawing your pistol. I know that I can not beat you to the draw (round chambered or not) but I am sure as hell going to give you a run for the money on your pistol. F*ck all this quick draw CCW sh!t; uniformed police officers open carry, have a round chambered and are more likely to be killed with their own pistols.
If someone surprises you and attacks you. surprise them with an attack of your own and one they did not plan on.
Stop watching all those westerns and see "Point of No Return" with Bridget Fonda. She takes a handler's pistol from him and.. Click... No round chambered. Listen to what her handler has to say.
Sorry Kane, you need to work on this shit... Knife thing? Who do you think you are? OJ? Carrying a weapon without a round chambered is not smart no matter what. Tell me that you don't really believe this crap? "If I have time to draw my pistol, aim , and fire; I also have time to chamber a round." "My even fatter out of shape ass will help you here with the distance that is now 10.5 feet and I am going to get cut (again) but so are you and with your own knife." you have got to be shitting me! I can cover 5' before you can turn and cover 5.5' once stabbed you will begin to go into shock, a STAB wound of just 4 CM will start that process, believe me I know. You have to have a mindset about this one, even if I come at you from 5' you still need to get your gun into action, going Empty hand against blade is just dumb, especially if you have a weapon on you, but wait, it won't work anyway... no round chambered!!! I guess we need to get the rubber knives out and chalk them up and I suppose some blue guns too.
Like I say a wise man once told me, He had to anticipate taking the rounds, (he was shot in the head at close range several times) but his survival instinct kept him alive, he drew his service weapon and shot the man who killed him, but his survival instinct was strong, he didn't believe he had been killed, he kept fighting all the way through his officer down call, a long wait for the meat wagon, the meat wagon attendant saying "we lost him" coding twice, countershock twice, hearing the doctor saying "I can't believe he is still alive" and "I doubt he will make it until morning" He saw the weapon in the perps hand, he saw the cylinder rotate and heard the hammer fall, saw the flash, felt the bullet hit his skull like a "Baseball Bat" he then saw the remaining 5 shots expended, saw the bad guy laugh, felt his world going black, drew his sidearm and discharged a hammer pair, and felt the body drop on his. he keyed his radio mic and called an officer down and his badge number. then the world was black for a few moments and he saw the blood running across his eye, saw the flashlight of his backup officer approaching then black again, then felt the backup officer trying to hold his head together a little longer, never heard the sirens, felt himself being placed on the back board, on the gurney, felt the airway being inserted, saw the gauze being rolled across his eyes, felt a tremendous pain and pressure in his skull. heard the heart monitor go flat, felt the counter shock, heard the monitor go flat again and again the counter shock, the EMT saying "He's not gonna make it!" The doctor working on him in the ER, hearing the Doctor say "I can't believe this guy is still breathing!" "He isn't going to live until morning, someone should call a chaplin" and "Does he have a next of kin?" HE thought of his daughter, he thought of what happened, he decided he didn't want to die, so he fought for it and lived. He spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair, his face was destroyed, he had a hit in the forehead, a hit on the bridge of his nose, a fractured skull, a deflection off his cheek bone, a hit in the lower jaw and a hit in the upper jaw opposite side. and a hit in the neck just above his vest. all from about 3-4 feet. It happened so quick that he was never able to react, he lost motor function in his left hand instantly at the first hit, his right hand was on the butt of his weapon, the guy stepped forward and emptied the rest of his cylinder not taking careful aim just blasting. Ken then drew his sidearm as the guy laughed, aimed one handed and no eyed and expended two rounds, his weapon jammed at this point and was knocked out of his hand, and he blacked out the first time. The Report of the incident showed that the perp was trying to reload his weapon at the time, 357 soft point, he had reloaded two chambers. The impact to Ken's skull caused his loss of motor control in his left hand, it was all he could do to get the weapon out of his holster and blindly pointed in the general direction of his killer. He discharged two rounds and both hit the perp in the chin and exited the top of his head. His Beretta 92fs jammed because he was limp wristing it by the second shot. He almost bled out while waiting on the ambulance. Mindset saved his life and he got to see his daughter graduate high school and he got to teach mindset to people who understood it. His life was spent in service of those in uniform when he died I had the honor of firing honors for him at his funeral. He survived Iraq, and was shot while on the job in podunk Kansas. I remember his lessons to this day. I will not give up, I will not go down without a fight, I will not go silent into that good night, I will fight to my dying breath. From hell's heart I stab at thee, with my dying breath I spit at thee. I may well be found killed with my own weapon but they will have to beat me to death with it because it is out of ammunition! AND they will have to climb over a pile of their buddies!!!! |
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Quoted:[/span
Sorry Kane, you need to work on this shit... Knife thing? Who do you think you are? OJ? Carrying a weapon without a round chambered is not smart no matter what. Tell me that you don't really believe this crap? "If I have time to draw my pistol, aim , and fire; I also have time to chamber a round." [span style='font-weight: bold;']"My even fatter out of shape ass will help you here with the distance that is now 10.5 feet and I am going to get cut (again) but so are you and with your own knife." you have got to be shitting me! I can cover 5' before you can turn and cover 5.5' once stabbed you will begin to go into shock, a STAB wound of just 4 CM will start that process, believe me I know. You have to have a mindset about this one, even if I come at you from 5' you still need to get your gun into action, going Empty hand against blade is just dumb, especially if you have a weapon on you, but wait, it won't work anyway... no round chambered!!! I guess we need to get the rubber knives out and chalk them up and I suppose some blue guns too.
Like I say a wise man once told me, He had to anticipate taking the rounds, (he was shot in the head at close range several times) but his survival instinct kept him alive, he drew his service weapon and shot the man who killed him, but his survival instinct was strong, he didn't believe he had been killed, he kept fighting all the way through his officer down call, a long wait for the meat wagon, the meat wagon attendant saying "we lost him" coding twice, countershock twice, hearing the doctor saying "I can't believe he is still alive" and "I doubt he will make it until morning" He saw the weapon in the perps hand, he saw the cylinder rotate and heard the hammer fall, saw the flash, felt the bullet hit his skull like a "Baseball Bat" he then saw the remaining 5 shots expended, saw the bad guy laugh, felt his world going black, drew his sidearm and discharged a hammer pair, and felt the body drop on his. he keyed his radio mic and called an officer down and his badge number. then the world was black for a few moments and he saw the blood running across his eye, saw the flashlight of his backup officer approaching then black again, then felt the backup officer trying to hold his head together a little longer, never heard the sirens, felt himself being placed on the back board, on the gurney, felt the airway being inserted, saw the gauze being rolled across his eyes, felt a tremendous pain and pressure in his skull. heard the heart monitor go flat, felt the counter shock, heard the monitor go flat again and again the counter shock, the EMT saying "He's not gonna make it!" The doctor working on him in the ER, hearing the Doctor say "I can't believe this guy is still breathing!" "He isn't going to live until morning, someone should call a chaplin" and "Does he have a next of kin?" HE thought of his daughter, he thought of what happened, he decided he didn't want to die, so he fought for it and lived. He spent the rest of his life in a wheel chair, his face was destroyed, he had a hit in the forehead, a hit on the bridge of his nose, a fractured skull, a deflection off his cheek bone, a hit in the lower jaw and a hit in the upper jaw opposite side. and a hit in the neck just above his vest. all from about 3-4 feet. It happened so quick that he was never able to react, he lost motor function in his left hand instantly at the first hit, his right hand was on the butt of his weapon, the guy stepped forward and emptied the rest of his cylinder not taking careful aim just blasting. Ken then drew his sidearm as the guy laughed, aimed one handed and no eyed and expended two rounds, his weapon jammed at this point and was knocked out of his hand, and he blacked out the first time. The Report of the incident showed that the perp was trying to reload his weapon at the time, 357 soft point, he had reloaded two chambers. The impact to Ken's skull caused his loss of motor control in his left hand, it was all he could do to get the weapon out of his holster and blindly pointed in the general direction of his killer. He discharged two rounds and both hit the perp in the chin and exited the top of his head. His Beretta 92fs jammed because he was limp wristing it by the second shot. He almost bled out while waiting on the ambulance. Mindset saved his life and he got to see his daughter graduate high school and he got to teach mindset to people who understood it. His life was spent in service of those in uniform when he died I had the honor of firing honors for him at his funeral. He survived Iraq, and was shot while on the job in podunk Kansas. I remember his lessons to this day. I will not give up, I will not go down without a fight, I will not go silent into that good night, I will fight to my dying breath. From hell's heart I stab at thee, with my dying breath I spit at thee. I may well be found killed with my own weapon but they will have to beat me to death with it because it is out of ammunition! AND they will have to climb over a pile of their buddies!!!! Sorry Kane, you need to work on this shit... Sorry AFSOC, I'm old fat, tired, and in a lot of pain...I ain't working on sh!t except getting in the pants of this twenty-something little girl know. Knife thing? Who do you think you are? OJ? Zorro! Any fool can point a gun at someone and pull a trigger. It takes a special person to get up close and use a knife. |
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Those of you who plan on carrying without one in the chamber had better practice charging your pistol with one hand until you can do it reliably. You may not realize you are in a life threatening situation which warrants drawing your gun before you are physically attacked. It is very possible that the initial attack may result in one arm or hand being incapacitated, leaving you with just one hand to work with.
All of us need to be able to draw and accurately fire our CCW guns with either hand for this reason. If you can't draw from the holster on your right hip with your left hand, then you'll be truly screwed when the bad guy's move is to smash your right arm in a door and trap it there with the weight of his body while he stabs at you with his free hand. Those of you who find it intimidating to keep one in the chamber need to train on drawing, racking the slide, and discharging the firearm all with the weak hand only, as fast as possible and without shooting yourself while you are doing the goofy "rack the slide using my rear sight against the belt loop" technique or whatever technique you decide is best. I personally believe that your chances of an ND are much greater when trying to chamber the gun in an improvised manner such as this, rather than chambering it properly in a safe direction, in your own home as you initially holster the gun to carry it that day, but hey, whatever makes you "feel" safer I guess. I'm just sayin', the only thing worse than being stabbed by a guy is shooting yourself while he's stabbing you because you had to make up some bumblefuck emergency loading technique in the middle of the fight. Good luck with your drills. |
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I remember seeing a holster a year or two back that carried the pistol by the slide, you had to rack the gun to remove it, maybe you ought to find one of those kane, I seem to remember it being out of new york....
Somebody needs to come up with a empty chamber fail picture, cause this thread needs it
PTK |
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I agree whole heartedly with those that state one should carry their sidearm loaded. I don't have anything more to say about the issue. Be prepared. Be as prepared as you can be. I'm guilty of not being prepaired at all times like I should, though it's not because I don't have a slug in the pipe. I can assure you of that.
As to downloading mags. I completely understand what AFSOC said about making sure a mag seats. I've done this with my G35 limited pistol. I run a 15 round mag with Taylor Freelance +5 basepads. So when I start it's 20 +1 and when I reload I have had an instance or two where I'm reloading so fast I didn't notice the mag not "clicking" into place because of the preasure. Imagine that, adrenaline kicked in and I made a mistake. And I wasn't even being shot at. Think if I had to actually load my gun too. Come to a match, wanna watch someone fumble? More times than not it's on a stage that requires you to load your pistol before engaging the targets. That being said, after my break in period I've shot at least 3,500 rounds (at least) through my G35 with nary a failure of any kind. This is a highly modified gaming gun. Not the factory, bullet proof pistol that Glock sends out in the box. Steel guide rod, 13lbs main spring, Rocket trigger with reduced over travel, pre-travel and reset, lightened striker spring, heavy trigger spring, Storm lake barrel, polished the trigger group and the whole 9 yards. That being said a modified gun is usually a less reliable gun. If I get the mag seated I have not had ANY feeding problems with any of my modified or factory magazines loaded to FULL capacity and for my gaming mags, well above. Just for gits and shiggles, I haven't even cleaned my pistol or my mags since the 2nd to last match last year. That's right, well over 1000 rounds through my modified G35 AND magazines without any cleaning or adjustments of any kind and it stiill runs like a Swiss (umm, Austrian?) watch. All of my game or carry pistols perform this way or they get sold. If it's a range/fun gun and it's not too bad, then so be it. But for something I have to depend on, I NEED to be able to depend on it. Fully LOADED. Get a REALIABLE firearm LOAD it to capacity PRACTICE regularly BE safe. Honestly, like Poly said, if you think your mags aren't reliable when fully loaded get rid of those pieces of crap and get quality mags. |