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Posted: 8/20/2003 10:41:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2004 9:53:52 AM EDT by HardShell]
This is all playing out right outside my office window - across the street in the State Judicial Building. Quite a crowd there all day today. I'm almost afraid to ask this, but...

What do you guys think of Roy Moore? I admire the heck out of him (for a variety of reasons I won't immediately go into), but I know a lot of people (both here and outside of Alabama) think he's a nut. I was just curious what y'all think...


Wednesday, August 20, 2003 (from foxnews.com)

MONTGOMERY, Ala. — Chief Justice Roy Moore (search) asked the U.S. Supreme Court to block the removal of a Ten Commandments (search) monument from the state judicial building Wednesday as supporters held a candlelight vigil to begin a round-the-clock protest.

Moore, who was turned back twice Tuesday by a federal appeals panel, filed a motion Wednesday asking the Supreme Court to stay an order for the monument's removal by the end of the day.

Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor said he expected the stone display to be out of the building "very soon" in compliance with court orders.

Moore's supporters held a candlelight vigil just after midnight, with nine pastors leading some 30 worshippers from across the country in prayer.

"Even if they should remove this monument -- and God forbid they do -- they'll never be able to remove it from our hearts," said the Rev. Greg Dixon of Indianapolis Baptist Temple.

Moore later reiterated his refusal to move the 5,300-pound monument by the deadline, set by a federal judge, of midnight Wednesday.

"This case is not about a monument, it's not about politics or religion, it's about the acknowledgment of God," he said during a television interview.

"We must acknowledge God because our constitution says our justice system is established upon God. For (the judge) to say 'I can't say who God is' is to disestablish the justice system of this state."

Moore, who installed the monument in the rotunda of the judicial building two years ago, contends it represents the moral foundation of American law and that a federal judge has no authority to make him remove it.

His emergency request Wednesday was filed with Justice Anthony M. Kennedy (search), who can handle the matter himself or refer it to the full court. Kennedy oversees cases from the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Moore's attorney, Herbert Titus, wrote that a stay would "permit the Chief Justice to fulfill the campaign promise that he made to the citizens of Alabama to restore the moral foundation of law."

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Moore's request for a stay Tuesday and Moore immediately asked the panel to reconsider. Later in the day the appeals court turned him down again, saying he had failed to ask for a stay within the legal time frame after it ruled against him July 1.

The 11th Circuit earlier this year agreed with a ruling by U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson, who held the monument violates the constitution's ban on government promotion of religion.

Thompson has said he may fine the state about $5,000 a day if the monument is not removed by the end of the day Wednesday. He has said it would be permissible for the monument to be moved to a less public site, such as Moore's office.


Link Posted: 8/21/2003 5:27:26 AM EDT
Judge Moore is not a nut!! Judge Moore is a true believer in the laws of the Founding Fathers of this country. The Constitution and most of our laws are based on Christian doctrine and beliefs. This country was founded by Christians who sought freedom of religion away from the King of England. THERE ARE NO WORDS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAY "SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE", THEY ARE NOT THERE!!! I am proud to be a true son of the South, born right here in Limestone County Alabama. I believe that the US government has no right to tell the state what it can do inside it's own borders.

Tony G
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 6:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 6:17:29 AM EDT by HardShell]
Amen, Tony!

I'm surprised more folks haven't posted something, but maybe there's another discussion about this going on in GD. I was tied up in a meeting all day yesterday and this is my first time back on the site since Wednesday afternoon. I hoped that the crew here respect the Chief Justice.

Roy Moore attended West Point, served this nation with distinction, is an outdoorsman and adventurer, is a STAUNCH & TIRELESS DEFENDER OF OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS, and - most importantly IMO - is true to his faith. My Dad (whose opinion I respect above just about anyone else's) knows him better than I do, and thinks very highly of him. I've met him several times and been impressed each time. I've never failed to be moved when I've attended functions where he spoke. And his "photographic-memory" knowledge of the law & history is utterly impressive. I don't know of a better-spoken strict-constructionist today.

And, while I agree 100% with you about the imaginary, so-called "separation of church and state," that's not even the primary issue with this order to move the monument (Yes, it IS the driving issue behind this whole situation). This current order to move the monument comes from a federal court judge making a decision with no basis in law, in direct conflict with the US and Alabama Constitutions - this is a state's right issue, if ever there was one. And, adding insult to injury, Judge Thompson (who issued that order) is a liberal, activist judge who, IIRC, was appointed by Carter mainly because of his ties to Bill Baxley.

I will continue to pray for Chief Justice Moore and hope that I will have the resolve to be that faithful should I ever be tested like that...
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:47:43 AM EDT
The War of Northern Agression was fought over states rights, mainly taxation, NOT SLAVERY!! The Southern states did not fight a "Civil War", a "civil War" is defined as "A war fought by the citizens of a country to overthrow or change a current government". The South just wanted to remove itself from the "Union", that was their only intended change.
Judge Moore still believes in the rights of the state, and he is correct according to the Constitution. The government of this Country is supposed to be controlled by the citizens, not the other way around. The folks in Washington are supposed to have only the power we, the citizens, give them. But alas, that has changed and we are now all under the thumb of the powerful folks that controll our very existence. Thay claim to send us money to help or state, THAT IS, OR AT LEAST, WAS OUR MONEY!!! I don't want to get started on this as I will go on for hours. I am beginning to think it is time for us to leave the Union permanently, set up a border and guard it heavily on all sides!

Tony G

Link Posted: 8/22/2003 11:21:07 AM EDT
i am torn over this issue. I don't know roy moore other than his exposure on the interviews and news.

I appluade him for taking a stand for what he beleives is right. Saying that i disagree with his stand on this issue. Using my hard earned tax dollars to defend his personal beleifs is not right. Even if i agree there are many that do not.
I agree with him but spending a few million dollars dending a rock that he put there specifically to cause this fight, in my opinion is wrong. Especially when our govenor is saying he needs 1 billion new tax dollars to get the state out of the red. Hell there is a couple of million right there.

My personal feeling is when this issue started Roy moore was a deeply comitted and religious man. After hearing him speak at the last 2 interviews i trully feel this has become a political issue for him more than a conviction. He was elected based on his 10 commandment fight in his old position.

I hate to admit it but i am begining to put him in the nut category.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 12:12:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mguntony:
... I am beginning to think it is time for us to leave the Union permanently, set up a border and guard it heavily on all sides!

Tony G




Even though we don't agree on the tax package (which is fine - we don't have to agree on EVERYTHING), I like you more and more every time you post, Tony! I've got to look you up and shake your hand at the next gun show!

In a nutshell, the whole issue revolves around what carries more legal "weight" - the plain, black-and-white wording of the 9th and 10th Amendments, or a liberal, activist (and erroneous!) INTERPRETATION of the 1st...
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 3:56:31 PM EDT
Judge Moore is 100% correct per the Constitution and our Founding Fathers. Prior had better hope he gets his judgeship because he just killed his career in Al. Moore will probably be our new governor as Riley is a lame duck though dangerous. Moore is battling the ACLU (started by Communists), and other organizations trying to destroy the Christian Religion in America and make it a secular state where anything goes. It's funny how our "Christian leaders", Prior, Riley, Bush, Al. State Baptist Assoc., etc. are either silent or supporting the ACLU.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:10:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2003 3:28:15 AM EDT by Avtomat]
why didn't moore file for a stay in the 11th circuit or in the trial court until weeks after it was too late? why didn't moore allow pryor to handle the case? Pryor says that Moore could have used much better legal arguments in his case; he didn't. why not?

hey hardsell, for whom does your wife work?
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 5:00:44 PM EDT
I'm not particularly religious, but let the monument stay.

Judge Moore, I support you totally.

CJ
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 8:40:08 PM EDT
First off, YAY I finally got logged on. So this will be my first post here.

While Roy is making a stand, its really a hollow stand. What does he really have to loose? At the worst, he'll go to some holding cell for a few day, maybe have to pay for the fines, and possibly even fired. But after it all he will be in a prime position to run for Gov.

While I have no prob with the Big Ten being displayed in public property, I have to agree with BeerSlayer. Its pretty obvious he picked this fight himself. I have heard rumors that he required defendants to pray with him before their trials (or at least requires them to endure his prayers) If its true I DO have a problem with that. I used to work for an attorney (big buddy of Wallace) who had a trial in Miami. When he returned from the trip he was still red and angry. Turns out the judge in Miami held court in Spanish Only. I equate the two.

However, the issue of a soveriegn Alabama, that is not beholding to the Federales I like. I'm a big State's Rights advocate, and if he can pull all this off using those arguments, and give DC a black eye, then I say, "Rock On Roy!"

Unfortunately during his rapid political rise, I believe he got lost somewhere. You can't avoid the FACT that he is an Alabama Politician. Alabama Politics have corrupted many a reverend, and Roy is not immune.

He created, under the cover of darkness, a religious Shrine. Had he put a 3 ton statue of Vishnu, or a Celtic god in the rotunda, would you still be supporting his stand?

He created this shrine for the sole purpose of picking a fight.

He stands to gain a great deal of political power regardless of the outcome.

He's guaranteed a big fat pension for the rest of his life out of our pockets.

He has spent thousands of hours on Alabama's Clock, maneuvering for this fight rather than performing the job he is paid for.

I hate to see greed and hubris, and its even worse to see it from a Thumper. Makes us all look bad

IronFish
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:49:59 AM EDT
Ironfish, I pity the staunch cynicism that I can feel running through your veins.

I disagree, and with regards to MgunTony's epiphany of winging off into our own, may I propose we offer Roy Moore the election for first president!
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 3:19:44 PM EDT
Thanks Beetle. Nobody offers pity much anymore. I'd love to say I work hard at it, but living at the mercy of Alabama Politicians for 37 years makes it quite easy.


Link Posted: 8/25/2003 3:32:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IronFish:
First off, YAY I finally got logged on. So this will be my first post here.

While Roy is making a stand, its really a hollow stand. What does he really have to loose? At the worst, he'll go to some holding cell for a few day, maybe have to pay for the fines, and possibly even fired. But after it all he will be in a prime position to run for Gov.

While I have no prob with the Big Ten being displayed in public property, I have to agree with BeerSlayer. Its pretty obvious he picked this fight himself. I have heard rumors that he required defendants to pray with him before their trials (or at least requires them to endure his prayers) If its true I DO have a problem with that. I used to work for an attorney (big buddy of Wallace) who had a trial in Miami. When he returned from the trip he was still red and angry. Turns out the judge in Miami held court in Spanish Only. I equate the two.

However, the issue of a soveriegn Alabama, that is not beholding to the Federales I like. I'm a big State's Rights advocate, and if he can pull all this off using those arguments, and give DC a black eye, then I say, "Rock On Roy!"

Unfortunately during his rapid political rise, I believe he got lost somewhere. You can't avoid the FACT that he is an Alabama Politician. Alabama Politics have corrupted many a reverend, and Roy is not immune.

He created, under the cover of darkness, a religious Shrine. Had he put a 3 ton statue of Vishnu, or a Celtic god in the rotunda, would you still be supporting his stand?

He created this shrine for the sole purpose of picking a fight.

He stands to gain a great deal of political power regardless of the outcome.

He's guaranteed a big fat pension for the rest of his life out of our pockets.

He has spent thousands of hours on Alabama's Clock, maneuvering for this fight rather than performing the job he is paid for.

I hate to see greed and hubris, and its even worse to see it from a Thumper. Makes us all look bad

IronFish




Well I've been trying to think of something intelligent to say about this thread so here it goes "Ditto"

Rick
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:12:33 AM EDT
They just rolled it out of the rotunda...
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