Posted: 3/11/2011 9:24:58 PM EDT
|
To my knowledge, as long as my friend is not prohibited from owning a firearm, he gives me payment, I give him gun. I cannot locate the statute anywhere on private party firearm sales, even after "Googling" it. Any experience and or input would be awesome!
Thanks, nsz Note - this will be for the sale of a handgun. |
|
2010 Minnesota Statutes
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.7132&year=2010 |
|
Quoted:
I thought this as well. i believe you have to report a handgun sale if it is to a non permit holder. That is correct. Note: Subd. 8.Report not required.If the proposed transferee presents a valid transferee permit issued under section 624.7131 or a valid permit to carry issued under section 624.714, the transferor need not file a transfer report. |
|
So, what about this part?:
Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; |
|
Quoted:
So, what about this part?: Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; That was the relevant part of the statute as I always understood it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
So, what about this part?: Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; That was the relevant part of the statute as I always understood it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Same here. My understanding is these regulations apply to FFL transfers, not private party transactions. I've been wrong before though, so if anyone can show differently, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it. |
|
Quoted:
Call Larry at Gunstop on Monday he can explain about private transfer of handguns in MN. 952 474 4570 Why don't you just tell us if you know something? There is lots of confusion on this issue - why would we assume that Larry's take is the right one? The statute cited above seems pretty clear that private sales are excluded... |
|
Quoted:
So, what about this part?: Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; Note: The following is solely the opinion of Garage-Logician and shall not be construed as legal advice. The section of MN Statutes that you quoted (624.7132 Subd. 12 (1)) would seem to suggest that the sale of a handgun between private parties is exempt from reporting requirements. However, if you read the part I bolded in red, you would see that if the buyer uses the gun in a felony crime of violence within one year from the date of transfer, you, as the seller, would be on the hook for a gross misdemeanor for Tranferring a Firearm without a Background Check. Statutes are difficult to read and understand, especially when they start talking about exceptions and cross referencing other statutes. The damn things are written by lawyers and even they don't understand them all of the time. My personal practice (partly due to my profession) is to only sell to someone with a purchase or carry permit. If you aren't confident in your own understanding of the statute, I would recommend finding a good attorney and running it by him/her. I would NOT rely on the word of someone at a gunstore or some anonymous poster on the internet. YMMV....hope this helps...proceed with caution...don't eat yellow snow...etc... |
|
in an effort to pay back and pass along some hard earned knowledge to help keep everyone safe.....here is what has been explained to me
1. If you read the statutes cited above, they only apply to FFL dealers. They do not apply to private sales. The only statutory requirement is that the person purchasing the firearm must be legally able to purchase and own the said firearm. That means for example, IF the person were to go get a permit and go into cabelas, they would be able to legally buy the same firearm you are selling them. That means, they are a MN resident, of legal age, and would pass the background check. The trick, however, is that in a private sale there is no requirement for the seller to obtain proof of that status. So, if you sell the gun and it turns out the person was not legally able to purchase, you MAY be in trouble. How much trouble you are in will depend on several things: 1. What kind of due diligence did you do? Did you see an ID, did you ask any questions, did you see a permit or make a bill of sale or ect, ect, ect. 2. Were you lied to or was information misrepresented to you 3. Was it reasonable for you to conclude that the person was legally able to purchase the kicker, of course, is that YOU will NOT be the judge of #3 if it ever matters............leo and the courts will be and it will be long after the fact of the actual sale and, if you are having the conversation, you were obviously wrong and the conversation will likely be taking place after your weapon was involved in a crime. Those are tough circumstances to hope for someone else to conclude you were being reasonable. So.........................on the rare occassions that I sell a firearm to a private individual now, I demand to see a permit and state ID. That way, I know that person is able to legally buy the weapon. I would encourage as much as possible that everyone do the same. Getting a permit takes a few weeks and the cost is minimal. and, as said above.......talk to a real lawyer, not the internet!!! |
|
Quoted:
Well, if it is handgun you are responsible for up to a year ........so getting info and making a bill of sale would be smart thing in MN ensuring that they have a permit to purchase / carry would be good foundation. Not exactly correct. See last item in this post. Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought this as well. i believe you have to report a handgun sale if it is to a non permit holder. That is correct. Note: Subd. 8.Report not required.If the proposed transferee presents a valid transferee permit issued under section 624.7131 or a valid permit to carry issued under section 624.714, the transferor need not file a transfer report. That section applies to FFLs only. Quoted:
So, what about this part?: Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; That section exempts private sales from any PTP, PTC, or paperwork requirements. It means that if the seller has no knowlege that the buyer is a person that can't legally own a firearm, then the seller is free to sell the gun to the person with no paperwork or background check. This is the so called "gun show loophole" liberals and anti-gunners cry about all the time. Quoted:
Quoted:
So, what about this part?: Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers: (1) a transfer by a person other than a federally licensed firearms dealer; Note: The following is solely the opinion of Garage-Logician and shall not be construed as legal advice. The section of MN Statutes that you quoted (624.7132 Subd. 12 (1)) would seem to suggest that the sale of a handgun between private parties is exempt from reporting requirements. However, if you read the part I bolded in red, you would see that if the buyer uses the gun in a felony crime of violence within one year from the date of transfer, you, as the seller, would be on the hook for a gross misdemeanor for Tranferring a Firearm without a Background Check. Statutes are difficult to read and understand, especially when they start talking about exceptions and cross referencing other statutes. The damn things are written by lawyers and even they don't understand them all of the time. My personal practice (partly due to my profession) is to only sell to someone with a purchase or carry permit. If you aren't confident in your own understanding of the statute, I would recommend finding a good attorney and running it by him/her. I would NOT rely on the word of someone at a gunstore or some anonymous poster on the internet. YMMV....hope this helps...proceed with caution...don't eat yellow snow...etc... Subd. 1f.Gross misdemeanor; transferring firearm without background check.A person, other than a federally licensed firearms dealer, who transfers a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to another without complying with the transfer requirements of section 624.7132, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the transferee possesses or uses the weapon within one year after the transfer in furtherance of a felony crime of violence, and if:
(1) the transferee was prohibited from possessing the weapon under section 624.713 at the time of the transfer; or (2) it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of the transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess the weapon in furtherance of a felony crime of violence. Note: To be guilty of a crime under the subdivision 1f. the state must show in a court of law that the seller 1) Knew at the time of the sale the person was prohibited (you can look at their ID, and PTP, or PTC and you are then imdemnified, no need to keep copies, just look at them), and/or 2) that the seller had a priori knowlege the weapon would in fact be used in felony crime of violence. Caveat, I'm not a lawer and nothing contained in this post can be considered as legal advice. |
|
Quoted:
in an effort to pay back and pass along some hard earned knowledge to help keep everyone safe.....here is what has been explained to me 1. If you read the statutes cited above, they only apply to FFL dealers. They do not apply to private sales. The only statutory requirement is that the person purchasing the firearm must be legally able to purchase and own the said firearm. That means for example, IF the person were to go get a permit and go into cabelas, they would be able to legally buy the same firearm you are selling them. That means, they are a MN resident, of legal age, and would pass the background check. The trick, however, is that in a private sale there is no requirement for the seller to obtain proof of that status. So, if you sell the gun and it turns out the person was not legally able to purchase, you MAY be in trouble. How much trouble you are in will depend on several things: 1. What kind of due diligence did you do? Did you see an ID, did you ask any questions, did you see a permit or make a bill of sale or ect, ect, ect. 2. Were you lied to or was information misrepresented to you 3. Was it reasonable for you to conclude that the person was legally able to purchase the kicker, of course, is that YOU will NOT be the judge of #3 if it ever matters............leo and the courts will be and it will be long after the fact of the actual sale and, if you are having the conversation, you were obviously wrong and the conversation will likely be taking place after your weapon was involved in a crime. Those are tough circumstances to hope for someone else to conclude you were being reasonable. So.........................on the rare occassions that I sell a firearm to a private individual now, I demand to see a permit and state ID. That way, I know that person is able to legally buy the weapon. I would encourage as much as possible that everyone do the same. Getting a permit takes a few weeks and the cost is minimal. and, as said above.......talk to a real lawyer, not the internet!!! Legal age? I thought an 18yo could buy form a private party where as the can't from an FFL. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
in an effort to pay back and pass along some hard earned knowledge to help keep everyone safe.....here is what has been explained to me 1. If you read the statutes cited above, they only apply to FFL dealers. They do not apply to private sales. The only statutory requirement is that the person purchasing the firearm must be legally able to purchase and own the said firearm. That means for example, IF the person were to go get a permit and go into cabelas, they would be able to legally buy the same firearm you are selling them. That means, they are a MN resident, of legal age, and would pass the background check. The trick, however, is that in a private sale there is no requirement for the seller to obtain proof of that status. So, if you sell the gun and it turns out the person was not legally able to purchase, you MAY be in trouble. How much trouble you are in will depend on several things: 1. What kind of due diligence did you do? Did you see an ID, did you ask any questions, did you see a permit or make a bill of sale or ect, ect, ect. 2. Were you lied to or was information misrepresented to you 3. Was it reasonable for you to conclude that the person was legally able to purchase the kicker, of course, is that YOU will NOT be the judge of #3 if it ever matters............leo and the courts will be and it will be long after the fact of the actual sale and, if you are having the conversation, you were obviously wrong and the conversation will likely be taking place after your weapon was involved in a crime. Those are tough circumstances to hope for someone else to conclude you were being reasonable. So.........................on the rare occassions that I sell a firearm to a private individual now, I demand to see a permit and state ID. That way, I know that person is able to legally buy the weapon. I would encourage as much as possible that everyone do the same. Getting a permit takes a few weeks and the cost is minimal. and, as said above.......talk to a real lawyer, not the internet!!! Legal age? I thought an 18yo could buy form a private party where as the can't from an FFL. That is correct in MN. Must be 18 years old to buy a handgun in a private sale. |