Posted: 3/21/2008 5:20:53 PM EDT
|
I need to buy a couple of optics for my ARs and wanted input form those with experience with these 2 types. If I go with the EO Tech why do most buy the model that uses AA batteries? Is it because of accessibility? I'm hoping to get these before the DPMS shoot. Thanks. -----------134thSIGNAL |
|
Which Aimpoint are you considering? Both Aimpoint and Eotech make great optics. Proper mounts are definately worth considering, we use Larue Tactical Mounts on our SLR15 rifles. You need to consider your perceived use for the optic, mount and where you are planning on mounting it, and lastly your BUIS. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com |
|
Aimpoint: + long battery life + compact + rugged - $$$ - requires a separate mount - 2MOA is as fine as it gets EOTech: + $$$ + rugged + single side mounted adjustments + no $$$ mount required (but a battle latch is highly recommended) + both 65MOA chevron and 1MOA dot (for me, the 65MOA was more of a distraction) - battery life (unless you get the 512/552) - mount required if you want to do lower 1/3 with it - intensity adjustment buttons are rather small and mounted low on the rear, could be hard to get to for some folks with fat fingers I had about $400 in Cabela's bucks to spend and couldn't decide. A friend loaned me both for a weekend to use on my carbine and I came away with a better appreciation for the Aimpoint. I just could not get used to the 65MOA chevron. I am in no way bad mouthing the EOTech. I have the Aimpoint CompM3 on my go-to carbine. The ML3 is the non-NVG ready unit and is like $80 less. Having said that, I have it in an ARMS cantilever front sight. I got a nice deal on it from the EE. Sully's recommendation on the LaRue is solid. GG&G are also a good choice. If I had not gotten a good deal on the ARMS unit, I would have gone with the GG&G front sight. I like GG&G just a bit better. Its simply a personal preference. If you get an EOTech, I would HIGHLY recommend the 512. 1000 hours on a set of Lithium AA batteries. I would also recommend the GG&G 1235 battle latch lever for it. (makes removing it and rezero'ing a non-issue) Some guys like to mount their EOTech's really far forward, which necessitates the use of the Yankee Hill mount. (YHM-220) A "stock" EOTech will put the dot on the top of your front sight. With the YHM riser, it will put it in the bottom 1/3. Again, its a personal preference thing. |
|
I have all three optics commonly found on AR15s. Eotech, Aimpoint, and ACOG. The ACOG is a fine optic for 100 yards+. It's solid, looks like it's built like a tank and from all reports, that is the case. Others have told me that you can get used to shooting it up close with both eyes open, but the 4x mag just makes it too hard for my brain. I like the chevron reticle in mine, it works great. Inside of 100 yards, the ACOG just doesn't work for me, so that leaves the two you mentioned, the EOTech and the Aimpoint. From a purely functional point of view, I think the EOTech is easier to use for me. The optic is much shorter and more open which allows less than optimal head placement behind the firearm. And my eyes pick the EOTech reticle with the 1MOA dot and the 65 MOA circle around it up faster than a single dot. From an ergonomics point of view, I think the Aimpoint wins. The lens covers are a big plus (although GG&G is making a set for the EOTech now as well) and the battery life is a huge plus. The brightness adjustment is much easier too. Ultimately I think it's a personal decision. Both companies make a fantastic sight, the choice comes down to which works for you. |
| I have tried both the aimpoint and the eotech. i like the aimpoint better. I pick up the dot faster than i do the eotech reticle. as fast said it is personal choice. I like the magnified optics when i am going to be shoooting longer distances---i just couldn't get comfortable with the ACOG for up close stuff. somebody asked where to go in MN to get the optic---sully. if he doesn't have them I go to La Rue---you can get the optic and the mount for close to the same price everybody else charges for the optic alone. |
Same here. It's such a personal choice thing, I don't think one could say one is "better" than the other. The claim that the batteries on the CompM3 will last 50K hours is a bit absurd, cause if you use it "wide open" on a sunny day, it will drain it at a much faster rate. Realistically, though, either unit can be left on year round with no ill effects. The good news ... both are darn good choices. So, your not in the position of having to "settle" for one vs. the other. |
It says the 50k hours on the M3 is on the 7 out of 10 setting. Not sure how bright that is in the grand scheme of things. The specs on the M4 (uses a single AA battery) say it will get 500,000 hours  on the night vision setting. I think a battery sitting on the shelf would go dead in less than 500,000 hours.  ETA: Looks like the M3 and the M4 both get 500,000 hours on the night vision setting. Wow. Anyhow, I guess my point is that they're not fudging the 50k number by using the lowest setting or anything. |
|
50,000 hours is 5.7 years for those who are too lazy to do the math. 500,000 is kind of ridiculous. Shelf life on a LiIon battery is 10 years, and from my considerable experience at work with them, it's really more like 6-7 years. Still, 5.7 years is what we rate our application at, which is 10-12 uA out of a 650 mAH battery. Pretty incredible low current for something that has an optical component. |
|
I have had my EoTech 552.A65 on my .50 Beowulf for more than 500 rounds now. I am really happy with it, and have not had one issue with it. I like the fact that it is made in the USA, and another thing, it seems not catch on things as easily as some other designs. I am going to be picking up another to go on my 223 upper, if I don't get an ACOG first. |
| I have a 553 and I did not care for it. The reticle has been difficult for me to get used to but the construction seems top notch. It has an automatic shut off otion to preserve battaries if you leave it on. I am on the fence about selling or keeping it. I'm sticking with ACOG's for now on. |
|
I have both types - EOTech 511 and just purchased an Aimpoint M4. I didn't have very good luck with my EOTech (mostly my stupidity) and battery life is an issue - many of people I shot with had Aimpoints and they appeared to be more reliable so I bit the bullet and bought the Aimpoint. Hope to get to the reange this week and zero it - we'll see if it works for me. FYI - I have used a Trijicon with the 12MOA triangle and it worked very well for short range carbine matches and out to 100 yds. It does have a few issues with wash out under some conditions but reliability it was 100%. Northbilly |
|
Can someone explain to me what you mean when you say the Aimpoint is more "reliable" or that the Eotech is less "reliable". I understand the battery life thing but has somone done a long term "reliability" test of some sort on both of these. BTW: I own and have owned different variations of both and didnt experiance issues with either. Another thing I can say is from the other end of an Aimpoint, even with a kill flash, you can see the red illumination. From the other end of the Eotech you can not see anything, with or without a kill flash. |
|
The Battery life is a huge part of reliability.... How can you rely on an optic if you never know if it's going to turn on because the battery is dead... The Battery compartments and the springs have also had issues that cause intermittent power to cause the reticle to flash on and off during firing.Recent recall of the 553's due to that problem. Early models had problems with a loss of zero; These problems are all observed by Professional end users who see hundreds of sights.. not by guys who have one of each As to the Kill flash.. If your that close to the business end of a Aimpoint.. and you see a red glow.... chances are good it's going to be followed by a real bright orange ball of fire....  And if you turn up a EOtech.. you can see a red glow... in the users face... When it's dark.. you turn the optic down.. problem solved...I don't know anyone who cranks up the brightness on either sight in the dark. |
|
Harv24- Thanks for you input. I had heard of bad reports on the first gens of EOtechs, which is still the basis for the Bushnell Holosights. I will say this, I have buds who use the 512 and 552 and swear by them, since they can use LithIon AAs in them. I have not heard too much good/bad about the latches on the current models. N cell based optics are not my preference. (not heard many good reports about the 511 models battery life)
|
|
Don't think I'm an EOTech hater... I'm not. And like you said.. Some guys swear buy them. I read a comment from a real deal guy who's opinion I respect and he summed it up this way. Aimpoints are like Glocks of red dots. and EO techs are like the 1911's of red dots. If you have the skill and knowledge to run an EOTech, then they will work good for you, otherwise you need to run a Glock.... A competent shooter who understands things like regualar PMCS..(Preventative maint chacks and services) understands things like PCC/PCI's (Pre combat checks /Pre combat inspections) who understands that changing batteries is required at certain intervals and having spares handy.. Who understands the weaknesses of his system and compensates accordingly.. My experience is that most guys run EO's cause they see the Elite SOF guys running them vs the regular line dogies who run the Aimpoint. Truth be told, The Aimpoints are just more reliable and that's what I like about them. I can turn one on (even an older M2) and come back months later and it still works. And for the guys who have seen plenty of Aimpoints not working in the Big Army.. know this... The big Army treats the Aimpoints like 30 rd magazines. There are lots of older Comp M's still out ther that are well beyong there service life that are not getting purged So some of that rep is based on the old beat up units that are well past ther useful service life. If EOtechs were in that same boat.. you would probably see twice as many and ther reputation would not be as good. Bottom line is no the limitations, understand what they will and won't do and choose based on meeting you needs. That's what I did.. and that's why I use an Aimpoint. |
I appreciate that you clarified your opinion. I did say in my post that I do understand the battery life issue. Also as someone familiar with the Eotech will also know when there battery is getting close to dying because it has a warning system. |
|
And that is one of the factors that I don't like about an EOTech.. Sure the reticle flashes when the batteries low, but you know how Murphy works, and that will happen at the worst possible moment where the time to stop and swap out batteries is not available. But if your a smart guy and you do good PCI's before you leave the wire and change out batteries at a certain interval, you should be able to minimize that issue. But most folks who own one buy it for the coolness factor and rarely do PCI's everynight before they go to bed.... Which is why when someone ask's.. Whats a good optic for a Home defense gun.... The answer should always be an Aimpoint. Cause you can leave it on and change the battery when you change the battery on your smoke alarm. And you never have to turn it on to get it in action. But reliability is boring..... so most folks opt for exciting cool guy stuff that they see Mack on Future weapons gush about... Me.. I like Boring. |
I suppose 10hrs isn't long enough to change my batteries. You keep relating reliability to battery consumption  I dont think a vehicles reliability rating relates to fuel consumption, does it?I guess what you are trying to say is most people are too stupid to use an Eotech properly and the only people that buy them are wannabe operators.  Oh, and I have BUIS for a reason. |
|
Crashtastic
No.. what I'm saying is Battery life on a red dot equates to reliability. A car to Optic comparison is not valid. Run out of gas.. you just coast to a stop and then walk... Dead battery, a car can still function for a period of time... And most folks who use one for home defense would be better served with a unit that is less prone to being dead due to battery life. It's not a question of being stupid.. EOtechs stop working for smart owners all the time. What your saying is it's only a problem for those who don't use it "properly" So what is the "improper" use??? So If I don't change my batteries al the time, I'm not using it properly??? If I don't hit one of the buttons occasionally to keep the Auto shut off from shutting the sight down on me unexpectedly , then I'm not using it properly??? And if my reticle is going to flash on and off because the spring terminals have been compressed under recoil.. to me , that is not very reliable,or am I not using it properly....  I don't know about you, but I suck at predicting the future.... so I want something that is simple and always works... or at a minimum has a higher percentage of working 100% more then any of it's competitors. I know lots of guys who run 1911's and they have nothing but problems.. but they keep running them because they don't want to give up the Cool factor of " I run a 1911" But yet they would be better served with a Glock or a S & W M and P,etc as it would work better for them and be more reliable. You would be surprised at how easy a person can accept a Type 1 or 2 malfunction on occasion as the price to run a certain pistol, because the alternative would be to admit that maybe it is not as reliable as it could be and therefore they made a poor choice... The problem is EVERY thing seems reliable.... until it stops working.... and when is that??? You may go a lifetime and never have a problem.. Or it may fail at the worst possible moment. Now of course you can say that with any optic.. but one is going to have a lesser percentage of that happening then the other... Same as with Colt's and LMT's,etc vs other AR's.... They all have the potential to break.. the question is which one has the lest likelihood of failing over the long haul....Based on large samplings and not on an individual basis. |
|
I am a believer in anything mechanical or electrical can and will fail eventually, that goes for back up irons, Glock's, 1911's, AK's, AR15's, RDS's, and batteries. You can find arguments and comparisons all over the errornet. I have personally seen all of the above mentioned fail or malfunction, and yes even an AK on more than one occasion. My belief is that there are benefits to each RDS and I happen to like both for different reasons. My only difference of opinion would be to say that battery life relates to reliability. When I think of reliability I think of its ruggedness, waterproofness, do the buttons or switches fall apart or break, does it hold zero, does it work the way it was designed to. And as I said before I have not had problems with either Aimpoint's or Eotech's in those area's of comparison. They are both top notch quality IMO. Batteries in RDS = Fuel in car. Battery in car = the fingers on your hand. The battery in your car only starts it. If a battery dies prematurely, then that is a whole other issue and that can happen in anything that uses batteries. My comparison of cars goes to the argument that the consumption of fuel does not relate in any way at all to how reliable a car is. If you run out of fuel, that is your fault not the cars. If you forget to shut your RDS off when you get home from a day of shooting or working, the battery might die, that is your fault, not the devices. An Eotech might not run as long as an Aimpoint, but with fresh batteries it will still last several days, that is of course if you remind it to stay on. An Aimpoint will just stay on and die slowly. It only lasts for the claimed amount of time if you put it on the NV setting. I have killed the battery in an Aimpoint, MY FAULT. If your only concern is battery life or you are putting the sight on a 10ga shotgun or .50 BMG(recoil concerns) than get the Aimpoint. If those are not your main concerns do a thorough search of the web and go someplace to look at both and make an educated comparison. Eotech's and Aimpoint's are both top notch as far as red dots IMO. If you want even better reliability and ruggedness look no further than Trijicon. All I asked is for someone to explain why they think an Aimpoint is more "reliable " and you have given your opinion. |