Quoted: Quoted: Did I miss something about her joining the SWAT team?   They are running her BG Check as we speak...

And getting her sized for fast roping gloves.

here i come so please don't shoot.     there is a female instructor at bills---just another option.  I don't understand why gender has to be an issue when discussing training, but I have been told by a few women to keep my nuts out of it and let them do what makes them happy and/or comfortable.  guns, tactics, shooting, carrying, are all tricky issues best left to the pros, some women feel more comfortable talking to a fellow woman about these issues.  if my wife told me that if she wasn't so comfortable with Len, she would've taken classes with theresa(sorry if i misspelled).   my grandpa(an accomplished person and hunter) told me that there are 2 more (there are a bunch) mistakes that men can make with  women 1.  try and teach them to drive a stick and 2. try and teach them to shoot.  don't  mistake this--my grandma has killed her fair share of animals--my grandpa had somebody else teach her how to shoot.  bottom line---have your wife talk to as many instructors as possible--if money isn't an issue put her on the phone with the out of state peopleas well--thunder ranch, gunsite, etc.   my wife can outshoot me and has her CCW and the best advice that I can give you is have HER talk to the instructors and make the decision, don't try and make it for her, but good for you for trying to find her the best

I just took the CCW training at Bill's, Teresa was my instructor..

I dunno what all the complaining is about

The shooting bit of the test was easy enough (one guy actually didn't pass the test), and the paper/learning bit was great.

My previous training experience was taking a state- and NRA-certified CCW course in NY. Due to the vagaries of NY law, teaching the legalities of carrying, as well as what you can and can't do, use of force, etc was NOT taught. (Apparently, in NY, if you give legal advice of any kind (and use/no-use of force advice is apparently legal advice there), you can be sued if a student does something stupid and/or prosecuted for dispensing legal advice without a shingle...so unless your instructor is also a lawyer, don't expect much of the way of do's and dont's in NY for training)

Here, they went into the legality of do's and dont's, what constitutes a justifiable use of force, be it lethal or less than lethal, etc. What I can and cannot do in any given situation, what I MUST do, etc. FAR more than I learned in NY.

In fact, that's what I'd like to see a LOT of for these kinds of courses; any dork can pick up a gun and make a hole with it..but having the justification rules drilled into your head is, in my humble opinion, the best initial training one should get (other than, you know, basic proficency). The better the training from the legal and mental standpoint, IMO, the better.

Once the person has gotten the fundamentals down, both legal and physical...if the person wishes to get and maintain and edge, further training should be undertaken.

After all, when learning to drive a car..yah, you drove a lot, but you didn't get racing or evasion/escape training, did you You learned the laws and basic proficency...

Just my opinion. Flame away.

(Once I get my permit, yah, I'll be taking further training. Not much of a point to it, for me, if I don't have the carry permit...)

I took my CCW claas at Defensive Edge too, and I give them two thumbs up.  I was very satisfied with the course and would recommend them to anyone.  However, if you want advanced training, I think it would be good to take their level II class and to continue practicing the concepts they teach in your own time.  Are their other good instructors out there -- I'm certain there are, but I only will speak from my own personal experience, and I've only tried DE.

Did any of you notice that Massad Ayoob did a seminar at Bills Gunshop in Crystal, MN back in November?  I think something like that would be exceptional for the mental mindset portion of carrying a weapon.  I was tempted to go, but I believe the cost was something like $350 -- a little high for me.

Quoted: [...] I don't understand why gender has to be an issue when discussing training, but I have been told by a few women to keep my nuts out of it and let them do what makes them happy and/or comfortable.  [...]

I think one of the most interesting pieces of advice I ever read, and it was from a woman, is that a spouse should never attempt to train a spouse....This isn't just in regards to self defense, but in almost any activity.  

Her reasoning is that a spouse won't be able to give unbiased feedback and any negative feedback will be taken as a personal attack (hence leading the trainer to not want to give necessary negative feedback).

Quoted: I'm just trying to figure out how a thread from a guy who asks a simple question about some training for his wife turns into a debate about gunfighting from vehicles and so on.  Did I miss something about her joining the SWAT team?  hr

I was thinking the same thing.Mn. law requires some elements in order to qualify for a permit to carry.Is this enough training for me personally? Of course not!That is why I have spent so much time and money on other training[Stressfire,Front Sight,IDPA,etc.]This is a forumn of "gun nuts"[myself included],it is not realistic to expect every person who wants to carry for self defense to have the same level of committment.Right or wrong in anyone's view,that' the way it is.Look at Florida,according to their law, DNR firearm safety class,taken when you were 12,is enough  training to get a permit to carry.They  have had legal ccw for a long time with very minimal training requirements[they do a federal background check though],and they have not had major problems,or efforts to repeal the permit system.
Don't forget,most self defense encounters are at very close range,rarely are we required to [smartass mode] repel from a helicopter and storm a building,then shoot 17 terrorists,after all,only Jack Bauer [or maybe Chuck Norris] could do that.

Quoted: I was thinking the same thing.Mn. law requires some elements in order to qualify for a permit to carry.Is this enough training for me personally? Of course not!That is why I have spent so much time and money on other training[Stressfire,Front Sight,IDPA,etc.]This is a forumn of "gun nuts"[myself included],it is not realistic to expect every person who wants to carry for self defense to have the same level of committment.Right or wrong in anyone's view,that' the way it is.Look at Florida,according to their law, DNR firearm safety class,taken when you were 12,is enough  training to get a permit to carry.They  have had legal ccw for a long time with very minimal training requirements[they do a federal background check though],and they have not had major problems,or efforts to repeal the permit system. Don't forget,most self defense encounters are at very close range,rarely are we required to [smartass mode] repel from a helicopter and storm a building,then shoot 17 terrorists,after all,only Jack Bauer [or maybe Chuck Norris] could do that.

Good post!

BTW, What happened to your spacebar?

This thread is so far gone in outterspace that NASA aint even going to chance finding it anymore

At ARFCOM, we call this a Train Wreck

Yup.  I mighta started it, but I tuned out after the end of page one.  Some of you guys would argue with a possum.

The issue is not what place but..... if you need "training" or not.

Try them all if you like to take classes.

If you are not relying on luck to save your ass that is not a bad thing.

It is Interesting to read how people put down "training" but you would never see people put down going to "College"Why the double standard?"That I don't need to learn any more I have been shooting my whole life attitude"is what gets me.

I personally don't see a problem with recomending things from experiance. What else would you base your thoughts and oppinions on?

I do not see it as DE vs Everyone. I see it as training vs NOT training.  Acctually we are just trying to get people to come out and get training weather it be Bills TacTues or DE class or where ever.
Alot of us feel that training is a must.  "We" (training junkies) will discuss it all day because we like to.

Quoted: Maybe we need to have a big discussion over in the Tactics and Training Forum.

That or even start a training thread in the MN area that covers this discussion without further derailing this thread. I’m not even sure what inspired some of these posts.
As stated, the actual subject matter was pretty much left behind after the first page.

Best of luck to you and your wife Beleg.

Asked and Answered! Sort of... ;)