Posted: 1/3/2015 10:26:17 AM EDT
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"Held further,a business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on blanks or incomplete firearms (including frames or receivers) using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Don't think you can go to your buddies and have him "help" you build your SBR or other Form 1 item, unless you own ALL the tools and equipment. And even if you do, don't give him a beer, it'll be considered payment for services rendered. Not good, not good at all 
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Here "Held further,a business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on blanks or incomplete firearms (including frames or receivers) using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Don't think you can go to your buddies and have him "help" you build your SBR or other Form 1 item, unless you own ALL the tools and equipment. And even if you do, don't give him a beer, it'll be considered payment for services rendered. Not good, not good at all And..... How would they know? |
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And..... How would they know? Are you being serious? I ask because its a pretty ignorant question. Why would you file a Form 1 to then break the law completing it? Why would we have discussion after discussion, pertaining to constructive intent if you're suggesting to, blatantly, disregard the rest of the laws? I'm all for "Shall not be infringed" and I normally don't disagree with you, but that was a stupid question. |
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Are you being serious? I ask because its a pretty ignorant question. Why would you file a Form 1 to then break the law completing it? Why would we have discussion after discussion, pertaining to constructive intent if you're suggesting to, blatantly, disregard the rest of the laws? I'm all for "Shall not be infringed" and I normally don't disagree with you, but that was a stupid question. Quoted:
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And..... How would they know? Are you being serious? I ask because its a pretty ignorant question. Why would you file a Form 1 to then break the law completing it? Why would we have discussion after discussion, pertaining to constructive intent if you're suggesting to, blatantly, disregard the rest of the laws? I'm all for "Shall not be infringed" and I normally don't disagree with you, but that was a stupid question. I felt the same about your post- hell, I feel that way about many of the topics I see here! If you worry about these things- so be it, I don't! Maybe gun ownership is too scary for you |
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I think, "engaged in the business of", is the key element here.
Collecting money and doing it for profit. "The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(1), defines a “person” to include “any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.” Section 921(a)(10), defines a “manufacturer” as any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution." |
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Here "Held further,a business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on blanks or incomplete firearms (including frames or receivers) using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Don't think you can go to your buddies and have him "help" you build your SBR or other Form 1 item, unless you own ALL the tools and equipment. And even if you do, don't give him a beer, it'll be considered payment for services rendered. Not good, not good at all Going to a buddy's place is not going to "a business (including an association or society)" This ruling stops machine shops from making available or renting out their space for a build party. It doesn't stop friends or acquaintances from using tools that someone other than the builder owns. |
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What tools are needed to build an SBR? Hammer, punch, barrel but wrench, maybe a breaker bar, adjustable wrench, roll of tape, vise. Of course Ak, and other rifles require a little bit more, but my point is, if your form 1ing(manufacturing a firearm)something-these are pretty ordinary tools, you should have them....just have your friend come over and help you on your own tools.
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I do agree with User55645, that regardless if this law affects a non-licensed manufacturer or not... The issue here, is that it's yet another step in taking away our Constitutional rights.
How many people do you know (or might believe in yourself), who feel that the Patriot Act is okay by their/your standards, simply because they don't plan on communicating anything that would construed as terrorism or hostile towards the multiple levels and branches of government? "It doesn't affect me, so what do I care?" Because my sense of Liberty is threatened, God dammit! Our government is like a hostile woodpecker. It just keeps pecking away, bit by bit, until it gets what it wants. If it's too hard in one spot, it moves to a softer spot and pecks and pecks and pecks. Our founding fathers would be shooting by now. |
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Going to a buddy's place is not going to "a business (including an association or society)" "This ruling stops machine shops from making available or renting out their space for a build party. It doesn't stop friends or acquaintances from using tools that someone other than the builder owns. However, when a person performs machining or other manufacturing process on a blank to make a firearm “frame or receiver,” or on an existing frame or receiver to make it suitable for use1 as part of a “weapon … which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” that person has performed a manufacturing operation other than what is contemplated by the GCA of dealer-gunsmiths" Explain to me how this excludes average joe from the manufacture definition. The point being that soon the ATF will rule that a handshake is considered "payment rendered" and you and buddy will be sharing a cell. This is infringement and no matter how much you choose to ignore it, its not getting better. Go ahead, hide your head in the sand, no one will be able to hear you yell FREEDOM, and they've won. |
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Is it possible that this new ruling is designed to shut down some of the 80% market? Say you have a buddy with a machine shop and you pay him to complete the 80% receiver for you. That might appear to be what they are aiming at eliminating. If, otoh, the owner of the 80% completes the lower him/herself using their own tools, no problem. Just don't incorporate a machine shop up the road to finish it for you.
Am I way off base here? Rome |
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However, when a person performs machining or other manufacturing process on a blank to make a firearm “frame or receiver,” or on an existing frame or receiver to make it suitable for use1 as part of a “weapon … which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” that person has performed a manufacturing operation other than what is contemplated by the GCA of dealer-gunsmiths" Explain to me how this excludes average joe from the manufacture definition. The point being that soon the ATF will rule that a handshake is considered "payment rendered" and you and buddy will be sharing a cell. This is infringement and no matter how much you choose to ignore it, its not getting better. Go ahead, hide your head in the sand, no one will be able to hear you yell FREEDOM, and they've won. Quoted:
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Going to a buddy's place is not going to "a business (including an association or society)" "This ruling stops machine shops from making available or renting out their space for a build party. It doesn't stop friends or acquaintances from using tools that someone other than the builder owns. However, when a person performs machining or other manufacturing process on a blank to make a firearm “frame or receiver,” or on an existing frame or receiver to make it suitable for use1 as part of a “weapon … which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” that person has performed a manufacturing operation other than what is contemplated by the GCA of dealer-gunsmiths" Explain to me how this excludes average joe from the manufacture definition. The point being that soon the ATF will rule that a handshake is considered "payment rendered" and you and buddy will be sharing a cell. This is infringement and no matter how much you choose to ignore it, its not getting better. Go ahead, hide your head in the sand, no one will be able to hear you yell FREEDOM, and they've won. yup......... best bet is to sell all your guns back at the next gun buy back. That way you can be free from fear of prosecution for shaking your buddies hand after he lends you a brass puch so that you can knock out a pin on your AR. If you get rid of your guns, you wont have to worry. Guns are scary and freedom is scary too! |
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freedom is scary Freedom is scary? Where'd you pick that one up, some libtard campaign pamphlet? I'm sure Benjamin Franklin was shaking in his boots over the thought of being free! Freedom is only scary to those trying to control everyone! Why don't you start off the trade in. Clearly, you're too afraid of the freedom your firearms suggest you possess. |
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Freedom is scary? Where'd you pick that one up, some libtard campaign pamphlet? I'm sure Benjamin Franklin was shaking in his boots over the thought of being free! Freedom is only scary to those trying to control everyone! Why don't you start off the trade in. Clearly, you're too afraid of the freedom your firearms suggest you possess. Quoted:
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freedom is scary Freedom is scary? Where'd you pick that one up, some libtard campaign pamphlet? I'm sure Benjamin Franklin was shaking in his boots over the thought of being free! Freedom is only scary to those trying to control everyone! Why don't you start off the trade in. Clearly, you're too afraid of the freedom your firearms suggest you possess. 
Do you even freedom Bro? your going full retard too soon!!!!!!!!! Slow down, stop panicking and try not to hyperventilate! As for me, I have too much invested to ever give up! I don't worry about these things cause......well just cause I dont worry about them! This banana is for you 
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Going to a buddy's place is not going to "a business (including an association or society)" This ruling stops machine shops from making available or renting out their space for a build party. It doesn't stop friends or acquaintances from using tools that someone other than the builder owns. Quoted:
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Here "Held further,a business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements of the GCA by allowing persons to perform manufacturing processes on blanks or incomplete firearms (including frames or receivers) using machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion and control where that business controls access to, and use of, such machinery, tools, or equipment." Don't think you can go to your buddies and have him "help" you build your SBR or other Form 1 item, unless you own ALL the tools and equipment. And even if you do, don't give him a beer, it'll be considered payment for services rendered. Not good, not good at all Going to a buddy's place is not going to "a business (including an association or society)" This ruling stops machine shops from making available or renting out their space for a build party. It doesn't stop friends or acquaintances from using tools that someone other than the builder owns. How about a club? Ghost gun club |
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Only machinery is listed in the BATFE letter and not shop floor space. What if a shop was to short term sell a machine, an hour or two, to someone for a dollar as they finish their own firearms? Most places would probably not do this due to liability and insurance purposes. iF you had a friend and he had tools or machines that you needed to work with and.......he allowed you to use those tools- I think you would be safe using them, unless...... you called up your local ATF agent, informed him of who you are and then said that you intended to go against ATF'S opinion with regards to manufacturing. I all seriousness here-Many small CIII dealers/manufacturers that make post samples are unable to do all of the work themselves, so they farm out portions to others more qualified to do the work. Is that legal- technically the answer is no, however it is still done! |
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No these are not necessarily new- more of a clarification for those in the industry. I first read about this on subguns.com last year. Quoted:
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I wonder if all of these new rulings/takes are repercussions from the form 1 MG lawsuits....did the nest get stirred? No these are not necessarily new- more of a clarification for those in the industry. I first read about this on subguns.com last year. Gotcha, pardon my blinding hat 
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Gotcha, pardon my blinding hat Quoted:
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I wonder if all of these new rulings/takes are repercussions from the form 1 MG lawsuits....did the nest get stirred? No these are not necessarily new- more of a clarification for those in the industry. I first read about this on subguns.com last year. Gotcha, pardon my blinding hat What is a blinding hat? |
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What is a blinding hat? Quoted:
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I wonder if all of these new rulings/takes are repercussions from the form 1 MG lawsuits....did the nest get stirred? No these are not necessarily new- more of a clarification for those in the industry. I first read about this on subguns.com last year. Gotcha, pardon my blinding hat What is a blinding hat? 
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It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Quoted:
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Sell yo gunz, ammo too and put your head in the sand. Then you'll be fine. It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Many did 
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Many did Quoted:
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Sell yo gunz, ammo too and put your head in the sand. Then you'll be fine. It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Many did This is all I have left 
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This is all I have left http://www.wikihow.com/images/2/25/Turn-Your-Hand-Into-a-Rubber-Band-Gun-Step-4.jpg Quoted:
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Sell yo gunz, ammo too and put your head in the sand. Then you'll be fine. It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Many did This is all I have left http://www.wikihow.com/images/2/25/Turn-Your-Hand-Into-a-Rubber-Band-Gun-Step-4.jpg Taxes paid on that sonny? |
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Taxes paid on that sonny? Quoted:
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Sell yo gunz, ammo too and put your head in the sand. Then you'll be fine. It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Many did This is all I have left http://www.wikihow.com/images/2/25/Turn-Your-Hand-Into-a-Rubber-Band-Gun-Step-4.jpg Taxes paid on that sonny? Nope and didn't register my spare clips either! |
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Nope and didn't register my spare clips either! Quoted:
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span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:[/span] Sell yo gunz, ammo too and put your head in the sand. Then you'll be fine. It wouldn't be the first time someone here wanted to sell all their guns because the laws were threatening to become too draconian. Fuck rights. Got things to do. Many did This is all I have left http://www.wikihow.com/images/2/25/Turn-Your-Hand-Into-a-Rubber-Band-Gun-Step-4.jpg Taxes paid on that sonny? Nope and didn't register my spare clips either! Molon Labe  
But be careful who you tell. They might try to confiscate them. |
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Sell the Jeep, buy more krinks Quoted:
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Well I guess they sold to all the gun buyers, bunch a dicks. Now I'm stuck with what I have. Sell the Jeep, buy more krinks Sell them both. Buy nothing. I can't wait to get my M-14 back so I can sell it. Things pissing me off and I dong even have it yet. |
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Is that the one up in the shop in NH you dropped of years ago?  March 2012, still not done and becoming extra aggravating. Then the bad news is Smit Enterprise have become all out worthless douche bags that all the M-14 guys hate so the SEI products are down in value these days. |