[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Back to Church Today (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/31/2009 9:16:07 AM EDT
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My wife and I don't sit with my best friend's family because they sit with the OKC mayor and his family. I want to be anonymous in that huge church or I wouldn't be going.
It's easy to sneak in and sneak out with so many people not knowing each other. So guess who sits next to my wife and me in church today? The Oklahoma County DA and his young pregnant wife. Several people were eyeballing him for being older than the younger girl he is obviously attached to. Here I am trying to keep a really low profile and they are watching me as well as him because I'm next to him. That may cause me problems if I keep going to that church. I talk to a lot of older folks, in their 70s and 80s, and the city gov't and DA's office is not real popular with that age group. I told my wife that really put us in a bad spot in that church. I hope I'm wrong. I make enough enemies by just being me than being associated with gov't officials. 
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Granted its been some time since I've attended Church, but I think that you are missing the point  The way I remember it, its not about who you socialize with or who you are seen with. You need to "lift and shift" your fires Dan. You don't understand Chuck. It is a very political church. I believe I'm not going there anymore. I don't like "Sunday friendliness" then be ignored if they see you at the grocery store. My friend is one of the well known people in the church. It's not because of who he is, but who he associates with. I can't abide Sunday friends. That DA caught some funny looks because his wife is obviously twenty years younger. Someone will tell someone else he is the DA and he'll have all kinds of "Sunday friends" if he doesn't already. I don't want that to happen to me. The fewer people that know me in that church the better off I am. I'm not going to play politics nor put up false fronts. My wife likes the church and I do to some degree. Mostly because it is easy to remain anonymous. Maybe not now because of who set next to me in church. That DA is probably treated very well but thought very little of in that church. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. But the looks he was getting I didn't like. And I don't want any of the "friendly smiles and stabs in the back" from those people because of who they think I might be or know. I'm not going to be like my friend. ETA I forgot today was Pentecostal Sunday. I didn't feel the Holy Spirit on a day when I should have. I guess I'm unrealistic in my expectations. I want to feel the spiritual lifting that you get in non denominational, fundamentalist churches with the anonymity of a very large church. I'm beginning to beleive I'm not going to get it there. |
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Not throwing stones, just a question. Why do you care what others think? If the church is so political that it makes a difference who you sits next to, someone needs to have a face to face with the pastor and bring it to his attention the congregation has completely missed the meaning in all his sermons. Maybe the congregation needs to be reminded of the "thou shall not judge" passage in the Bible.
If you continue to hear snide comments from one party about another party, remind them of the teachings in the Bible or tell them what to do with their opinions. While the latter is not the desired response, makes me feel better to put them in their place. |
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Not throwing stones, just a question. Why do you care what others think? If the church is so political that it makes a difference who you sits next to, someone needs to have a face to face with the pastor and bring it to his attention the congregation has completely missed the meaning in all his sermons. Maybe the congregation needs to be reminded of the "thou shall not judge" passage in the Bible. If you continue to hear snide comments from one party about another party, remind them of the teachings in the Bible or tell them what to do with their opinions. While the latter is not the desired response, makes me feel better to put them in their place. I want no contention in church nor distraction from worship. An old man came up and told me and my wife that where we were sitting was where he'd been sitting for years. Instead of telling him not anymore or ignoring him, we moved. With a smile too. I didn't want any attention from raised voices over such a trivial matter. I want no contention or political game playing which always leads to contention. The church's large size does offer anonymity which makes me feel really at ease. My wife noticed that several were looking our way and it made her feel uncomfortable. I don't think it was us they were looking at - the DA may not be real popular right now. But it was his pregnant wife that turned heads. I believe she had been a newscaster at one time. I'd never seen him before at that church. He may be a regular, he may not. I don't know. I do feel that some people there now have us associated with him. I shouldn't care but I do. I don't want someone coming over and kissing up for false pretenses or by mistake. I've already seen that there and have tried to avoid it at all costs. If they think I"m nobody, it'll never go past a simple smile and hello. Which is good for me. When you know there are old biddies of both sexes in a location, ti's best to avoid them at all costs. I'm not going to "put someone in their place" when we go to worship. That's their problem and not mine if I can keep my cool. So I'm going to avoid the BS at all costs. My wife likes going there. I'm in a bad spot. I don't like what I'm seeing but I want her to be happy. And it's not going to do me any harm either by going to church. I just hope I can find another one with the style of worship she likes and large enough we can slip in, worship, give an offering, and slip out. My dad was a recruiter in Louisiana. He'd go to church in uniform, worked hard as a leader in a new Lutheran church that was just beginning. He led by doing things such as working on the old decrepit meeing hall the new church was using. We picked up older members who couldn't drive and we'd take them to church. My mom and dad would have them over to dinner to break their loneliness. They set a good example for us, their children, by being and living a good Christian life. Dad was even asked to preach when the minister and his family had to leave for a family emergency. So he stayed up the night before and wrote a sermon from some notes the minister had given him. You can imagine his surprise when the church bulletin's theme was "Military Sunday", which was done only once a year. I never remember my parents being happier than when that church was beginning to blossom. And then some old biddies started their smiling and back stabbing and the church attendance fell to only a few families. The offerings could no longer support the new building the old biddies had insisted the church move to. The old building we were in wasn't good enough for them. A church should be the members, not the building. I learned to attend church, not to be drug into the cliches or politics so many want to play on Sunday. I have little or no patience in my advancing years (Chuck's gonna break that one off in me  ) to play games and try to avoid them. I thought I could do that in this church because of it's size by staying under the radar.
I'm really starting to think it's not possible. |
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well Dan, I'd say if attending that church makes you so unhappy, then it's time to find another one to attend, finding another shouldn't be a problem as there are plenty more around town that a politician or anyone from city gvn't has ever set foot in. You're absolutely right. I just have to maneuver my wife into thinking it's her idea. 
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| I've bounced around quite a bit from church to church for one reason or another. I guess all my years in the military have led me to expect certain attributes in my leaders and it extends to my church leader. Hypocrisy seems to be rampant these days. I'd start reconning other churches as well. |
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I've bounced around quite a bit from church to church for one reason or another. I guess all my years in the military have led me to expect certain attributes in my leaders and it extends to my church leader. Hypocrisy seems to be rampant these days. I'd start reconning other churches as well. If you let their hyprocisy keep you out of church, they win. And you can't expect a minister to be a hard ass. It just doesn't fit the job description. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be happy in that church. But my wife is. So I have a problem. Either I go with her, or she goes alone. Or we find another church. She's been going to different churches for over a year and finally settled on this one. I told her whatever church she picked, I'd go with her from then on. They're opening Saturday night services soon in a much smaller chapel. It may be the one to go to. We won't have as much anonymity as when there are a thousand or more people there and I'm hoping much less chance of bumping into those who use church as a symbol of their "goodness". I can do like a buddy once did. He liked to go to predominantly black churches, a new one every few weeks. They had the "get down with the Holy Ghost" in their services and he didn't get drug into the social groups.
They welcomed him as a fellow Christian and were actually glad to see him and his family come to their church. For the most part anyway. 
Old Bud used to like to go to church but no one would take him. I should have drug my ass up on Sunday morning and taken him when I had the chance and before he died. That's a mistake I don't want to repeat. Especially with my wife who has put up with my rotten ass for 31 years.
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I've bounced around quite a bit from church to church for one reason or another. I guess all my years in the military have led me to expect certain attributes in my leaders and it extends to my church leader. Hypocrisy seems to be rampant these days. I'd start reconning other churches as well. If you let their hyprocisy keep you out of church, they win. And you can't expect a minister to be a hard ass. It just doesn't fit the job description. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be happy in that church. But my wife is. So I have a problem. Either I go with her, or she goes alone. Or we find another church. She's been going to different churches for over a year and finally settled on this one. I told her whatever church she picked, I'd go with her from then on. They're opening Saturday night services soon in a much smaller chapel. It may be the one to go to. We won't have as much anonymity as when there are a thousand or more people there and I'm hoping much less chance of bumping into those who use church as a symbol of their "goodness". I can do like a buddy once did. He liked to go to predominantly black churches, a new one every few weeks. They had the "get down with the Holy Ghost" in their services and he didn't get drug into the social groups.
They welcomed him as a fellow Christian and were actually glad to see him and his family come to their church. For the most part anyway.
Old Bud used to like to go to church but no one would take him. I should have drug my ass up on Sunday morning and taken him when I had the chance and before he died. That's a mistake I don't want to repeat. Especially with my wife who has put up with my rotten ass for 31 years. Must not of been one of the "kill whitey" variety like our great leader attended
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Must not of been one of the "kill whitey" variety like our great leader attended Tell you what Chuck, I've been before but it's been awhile. You feel the spirit big time in the church I went too. it doesn't matter what color most of the congregation is if you feel the spirit moving in you. |
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Must not of been one of the "kill whitey" variety like our great leader attended Tell you what Chuck, I've been before but it's been awhile. You feel the spirit big time in the church I went too. it doesn't matter what color most of the congregation is if you feel the spirit moving in you. Missing the point again I seriously doubt that you would "feel the spirit" if you are in a certain Rev Wrights church(or a similar one as I stated before) as one of the few "honkeys" when he is preaching hate against you. Unless you're special, that is
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hard to feel the "fellowship/communion" in a church that the only one's not colored are the white women huh Chuck? Not exactly. Personally I dont care what color anyone is. But if I go into a mainstream predominately black church, and they are preaching hatred towards another race (especially mine ) then I just gotta wonder about everyone in there. Then you could replace black with red, green, purple, whatever and it plays out the same for me.
I will always say that I am not prejudiced, I hate pretty much everyone equally. Thats not really true either. I try not to hate anyone. Hate is awfull hard on a guys soul. Like one of my guys at work says," I have a strong general dislike for most people".
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hell Chuck, I don't hate any race or group of people, I just don't like 99.9% of the people I meet. It ain't what a man is, it's what a man has in his heart. ETA I naturally assume everybody is a damn snake until they prove otherwise. Yep. I also agree with Ndenway. Seems to me that more and more people are pretty much worthless these days. Very few people that I give a crap about, including family.
Just try to think about how many people you could really count on these days. Or, for that matter, how many you'd drop what you were doing to go and help out. Not very damn many for me. Of course, that could also be a statement on me as well
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If you let their hyprocisy keep you out of church, they win. And you can't expect a minister to be a hard ass. It just doesn't fit the job description.
"They" never win because God's always with us. Don't expect a minister to be a hard ass, just a leader. Allowing hypocrisy to run rampant in his congregation is not leadership. Examples of church BS: Had a pastor tell a church member she "WILL" go door to door after church to invite other to come next Sunday. I volunteered to help with the offering one Sunday. Pastor asked me to say a prayer prior to passing the plate. The made a snide comment in front of the congregation about the prayer I rendered. Pastor spending the entire sermon chastising the congregation for not giving enough offerings as the church was over budget. No mention of spending within your means. The fashion show police standing at the door and crtiquing everyone's church attire. Not to your face mind but with snide comments and disgusting looks. Requiring me to get rebaptised in thier church because they didn't accept that I was a Christian and had already been baptised. |
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If you let their hyprocisy keep you out of church, they win. And you can't expect a minister to be a hard ass. It just doesn't fit the job description.
"They" never win because God's always with us. Don't expect a minister to be a hard ass, just a leader. Allowing hypocrisy to run rampant in his congregation is not leadership. Examples of church BS: Had a pastor tell a church member she "WILL" go door to door after church to invite other to come next Sunday. I volunteered to help with the offering one Sunday. Pastor asked me to say a prayer prior to passing the plate. The made a snide comment in front of the congregation about the prayer I rendered. Pastor spending the entire sermon chastising the congregation for not giving enough offerings as the church was over budget. No mention of spending within your means. The fashion show police standing at the door and crtiquing everyone's church attire. Not to your face mind but with snide comments and disgusting looks. Requiring me to get rebaptised in thier church because they didn't accept that I was a Christian and had already been baptised. Sounds like they're whipping up on you. Don't let them. I know it's easier said than done because they've beat me for years. Ain't gonna happen no longer. I have to do what is best for my wife and me - that means find a church that I'll fit in OK and not get discouraged. Being the picky SOB I am, it's gonna be hard. My "adopted Mothber" is black and the closest thing to a saint I have known. She has been abused by other Christians, taken advantage of, etc but she still sticks to her faith and will help anyone. She forgives but doesn't forget. Meaning she accepts people as they are, the good along with the bad, and does what she feels the Good Lord wants her to do. She leads by example. My wife keeps telling me to ignore the "irritations" and stick to what He is telling us to do. Kind of like the sainted woman I mentioned above. Think about this: Mother Theresa had to be one of the toughest people that ever walked the face of this earth. She got dumped on by the church, faced unending despair and hardship, and still stuck to her mission of helping others. And others, And others, And others...... Never ending pit of filth and starvation, the dregs of humanity. Can you imagine the strength and perserverance she had? She put her faith in the Lord and did what she felt she had to do. I just wish I had !% of her toughness and fortitude and even .1% of her faith. I'd be a whole lot better person. |
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Yep. I also agree with Ndenway. Seems to me that more and more people are pretty much worthless these days. Very few people that I give a crap about, including family.
Just try to think about how many people you could really count on these days. Or, for that matter, how many you'd drop what you were doing to go and help out. Not very damn many for me. Of course, that could also be a statement on me as well
We were in AZ and stopped to drain the crank and stock up on some cold water. And to re-gas. Some gal was down beside the road with a wet shirt hanging up in her window trying to stay cool. She had a sign that said "Stranded - No Money for Gas". Well, I gave her $20. My wife asked me why I did that, a little angry. I told her she may be a scammer, she might really be stranded. $20 wasn't going to kill me and if she was a scammer, she'd pay for it later down the road. If she was really stranded, she had money to get home. She kind of saw the logic in that, and didn't mention it again. Now here's the bad thing. If it had been a Mexican, I'd of probably ignored him. Because I'm ticked about the illegal immigrations. Who is wrong in that situation? That's on me. Years ago I stopped and picked up two Mexicans carrying a fuel can walking down I-35. Well, hell, I'd been there and they had to have a way to go to get fuel. They had three bucks to buy diesel so I gave them another $5. I took them back and there was a WHOLE BUNCH of Mexicans in the back of that truck.
I did the wrong thing with the right intent. That's better than doing the right thing with the wrong intent. Or doing nothing if helping others is an inconvenience. Now, in this day and time, I'd leave those Mexicans walking beside the road. And if I'd could get away with it, I'd stop and steal their fuel can.
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Dan, I invite you to our church. The men's outdoor club goes fishing, deer hunting, and I just went hog hunting this past weekend. Didn't see anything to shoot, but saw a lot of torn up ground. The fellowship is great. The guys are the best men I have ever known. Wear anything you want, although I was given crap from the outdoor's club for wearing overalls and looking like a hick.
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Yep. I also agree with Ndenway. Seems to me that more and more people are pretty much worthless these days. Very few people that I give a crap about, including family.
Just try to think about how many people you could really count on these days. Or, for that matter, how many you'd drop what you were doing to go and help out. Not very damn many for me. Of course, that could also be a statement on me as well
We were in AZ and stopped to drain the crank and stock up on some cold water. And to re-gas. Some gal was down beside the road with a wet shirt hanging up in her window trying to stay cool. She had a sign that said "Stranded - No Money for Gas". Well, I gave her $20. My wife asked me why I did that, a little angry. I told her she may be a scammer, she might really be stranded. $20 wasn't going to kill me and if she was a scammer, she'd pay for it later down the road. If she was really stranded, she had money to get home. She kind of saw the logic in that, and didn't mention it again. great save Dan, way to reply with a bit of moral indignation to cover for the blowjob you were really paying her for .
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Dan, I invite you to our church. The men's outdoor club goes fishing, deer hunting, and I just went hog hunting this past weekend. Didn't see anything to shoot, but saw a lot of torn up ground. The fellowship is great. The guys are the best men I have ever known. Wear anything you want, although I was given crap from the outdoor's club for wearing overalls and looking like a hick. Thanks, but I want anonymity. My best friend is in tight with a lot of influential folks in the church I've been talking about. Mostly because his family is tight with the OKC mayor's family. He has a great Christian attitude and seems to be oblivious to the BS that goes on around him. He'll tell you that is just the way it is and it's OK. He accepts a back stabbing better than any person I've ever known.
I don't let my backside show to get stabbed anymore. I'd rather be seen and not known than be known and not seen when it comes to going to church. I once talked to a minister about wanting to be like Abraham, beloved enough by the Father to be able to actually negotiate with Him like Abraham did about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Well, slap me upside the head if he didn't use that in a sermon! 
Then a few months later he pleaded ignorant about some illegal things happening when he did know about them and damn well should have told the truth. Like Tangochaser, I expect "leadership" and not empty talk. But hell, it's on him, not me. The only Baptist minister I ever respected was one that would throw hands with you if you got shitty enough with him. He'd give you the shirt off his back or an ass whipping, whichever one you needed the most.
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We were in AZ and stopped to drain the crank and stock up on some cold water. And to re-gas. Some gal was down beside the road with a wet shirt hanging up in her window trying to stay cool. She had a sign that said "Stranded - No Money for Gas". Well, I gave her $20. My wife asked me why I did that, a little angry. I told her she may be a scammer, she might really be stranded. $20 wasn't going to kill me and if she was a scammer, she'd pay for it later down the road. If she was really stranded, she had money to get home. She kind of saw the logic in that, and didn't mention it again. great save Dan, way to reply with a bit of moral indignation to cover for the blowjob you were really paying her for .
Ndenway, you damn joker!
Even it was true what you said, she wouldn't have had to work very long to get the job done at my age.
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And antics like this is why I'll never go to church again. Love the Lord, church not so much. if you let others keep you from church, then the devil wins to some degree. I think you are meant to put up with some irritation in this life. Whatever we have to put up with, it ain't nothing compared to what Christ put up with for us. I don't want to, but I need to go to church. It's the right thing to do. I've said this before but I'll repeat it. The best scene in any movie I've ever seen is the communion scene at the end of the movie Places in the Heart. That is one of my all time favorite movies and that scene the one I can see the most clearly in my mind's eye. The communion plate is being passed. Someone hands it to the dead sheriff and he passes it on to the dead black guy who shot him, saying "Peace unto you" who then passed it onto to someone else. All was forgiven and both lived in peace in the after life. And forgiving others makes life easier. It's much easier said than done for me. But it's still the right thing to do. Putting up with irritations in this life is nothing compared to the irritations you can receive in hell. Old Bud always told me the same thing when in a pensive mood - Always do the right thing. We'd then finish our beers and cigars and hit the road to drive around looking for deer or turkey. Life is good, even if simple or complex, if you let it be. That means not being irritated at things you can't control. And participating in the "communion of saints" at church like the scene I mentioned above. I just have to keep telling myself that and then live it.
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Well, I went back to church again today.
And I really enjoyed it. When the preacher asked us to stand up and make new friends I turned around and shook one guy's hand with a smile telling him my name was Jefferson Davis Abraham Lincoln Waschotokovavitz. He smiled telling his name - Irv S_______ and turned around to shake someone else's hand. After the service as we were leaving, I shook his hand again and said "I hope to you again next Sunday Irv!" He looked a bit uncomfortable and asked - "What's your name again?" I thought my wife was gonna have a cow trying to keep from laughing. I told him my name was Dan and that was it. I asked my wife if we could have some fun next week end at church. She asked me how. I told her we would find Irv, sit next to him, and act like long lost friends.
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Well, I went back to church again today. And I really enjoyed it. When the preacher asked us to stand up and make new friends I turned around and shook one guy's hand with a smile telling him my name was Jefferson Davis Abraham Lincoln Waschotokovavitz. He smiled telling his name - Irv S_______ and turned around to shake someone else's hand. After the service as we were leaving, I shook his hand again and said "I hope to you again next Sunday Irv!" He looked a bit uncomfortable and asked - "What's your name again?" I thought my wife was gonna have a cow trying to keep from laughing. I told him my name was Dan and that was it. I asked my wife if we could have some fun next week end at church. She asked me how. I told her we would find Irv, sit next to him, and act like long lost friends. I went today....there was a video of a preacher giving a sermon
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I went today....there was a video of a preacher giving a sermon
Probably cuz he knew you were gonna be there and didn't want to take a chance of being hit by lightning.
We went to one a few weeks ago where the rock and roll band played a little too loud to suit me and it had a video sermon. The message was really pretty good though. You're talking about the big one on Edmond Road and I-35? My wife tells me they have several churches in the OKC area. The one we went to was at the Old Walmart up on NW Highway by Lake Hefner. |
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I went today....there was a video of a preacher giving a sermon
Probably cuz he knew you were gonna be there and didn't want to take a chance of being hit by lightning.
We went to one a few weeks ago where the rock and roll band played a little too loud to suit me and it had a video sermon. The message was really pretty good though. You're talking about the big one on Edmond Road and I-35? My wife tells me they have several churches in the OKC area. The one we went to was at the Old Walmart up on NW Highway by Lake Hefner. It was indeed Lifechurch.tv (great name huh?) We went to the one on 2nd and Penn. We've gone there on and off for years. |
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I could be wrong Dan, but it sounds like you are starting to be a bit 'optimistic' about church. Don't you recognize sarcasm when you see it?
My best friend called us as we were leaving the church. He wanted to know where we were sitting so he could sit with us next time. He'd been looking. I told him it was top secret - I could tell him but I"d have to kill him right after. He laughed and we went to Jimmy's Egg for breakfast. My wife asked me why I didn't tell him where we've been sitting. I told her I didn't want to chance him getting between me and the door when the service was over. I shouldn't have said that.
She didn't like it and I'm going to pay for it. All week.
It's a good thing I don't tell her why I drop cash in the collection plate and don't write a check. I think she'd come unglued if I told her I didn't want them knowing our address or names.
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It was indeed Lifechurch.tv (great name huh?) We went to the one on 2nd and Penn. We've gone there on and off for years. I got to say the minister does give a good message. The only question is if you can hear him give it and aren't deaf after listening to the rock band.
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Well, I went back to church again today. And I really enjoyed it. When the preacher asked us to stand up and make new friends I turned around and shook one guy's hand with a smile telling him my name was Jefferson Davis Abraham Lincoln Waschotokovavitz. He smiled telling his name - Irv S_______ and turned around to shake someone else's hand. After the service as we were leaving, I shook his hand again and said "I hope to you again next Sunday Irv!" He looked a bit uncomfortable and asked - "What's your name again?" I thought my wife was gonna have a cow trying to keep from laughing. I told him my name was Dan and that was it. I asked my wife if we could have some fun next week end at church. She asked me how. I told her we would find Irv, sit next to him, and act like long lost friends. props for originality. i've used "peter lemonjello" when introducing myself at some parties. not original, but it gets the desired confused look from the person i tell it to. |
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Went to church again today. I made it a point to look up my old buddy "Irv" from last week. I shook his hand and told him I was glad to see him.
He gave me the funniest look.  He didn't remember me from last week and it confused the heck out of him. 
My wife ate on me after church for doing that. I told her if I couldn't think of one reason for not having fun when I go to church. Even if it means confusing one of my "Sunday friends".
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Went to church again today. I made it a point to look up my old buddy "Irv" from last week. I shook his hand and told him I was glad to see him. He gave me the funniest look. He didn't remember me from last week and it confused the heck out of him.
My wife ate on me after church for doing that. I told her if I couldn't think of one reason for not having fun when I go to church. Even if it means confusing one of my "Sunday friends". I do not attend church formally. I believe in God and Satan has no place in my home or in my heart. I believe that God gave his only son to die for our sins and that the rest is up to us. Having said all of that I don't need to go to a building to feel reaffirmed about my faith or it's place in my life. Organized religion is a crutch that some people require to feel/know that they are not the only ones who feel or believe the way they do. It ceates for them a sense of fellowship and belonging. I say great for them. I don't need that...so I don't go. My beliefs are mine and they are not open to other peoples opinions. That's more than I have shared about religion....EVER!!! Thanks for being there fellas.
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I do not attend church formally. I believe in God and Satan has no place in my home or in my heart. I believe that God gave his only son to die for our sins and that the rest is up to us. Having said all of that I don't need to go to a building to feel reaffirmed about my faith or it's place in my life. Organized religion is a crutch that some people require to feel/know that they are not the only ones who feel or believe the way they do. It ceates for them a sense of fellowship and belonging. I say great for them. I don't need that...so I don't go. My beliefs are mine and they are not open to other peoples opinions. That's more than I have shared about religion....EVER!!! Thanks for being there fellas. Higgie, you are your brother's keeper. You may not need a sense of belonging in the "communion of saints" but others definitely do. Remember "love your fellow man"? Well, hell, I did my part at church today. Old Irv is gonna be wondering all week who I am, where he met me, and how I shook his hand at church this morning.
It will probably keep him off the internet porn sites and keep him from arguing with his wife being so wound up thinking about it. You got to think positive when you go to church!
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I do not attend church formally. I believe in God and Satan has no place in my home or in my heart. I believe that God gave his only son to die for our sins and that the rest is up to us. Having said all of that I don't need to go to a building to feel reaffirmed about my faith or it's place in my life. Organized religion is a crutch that some people require to feel/know that they are not the only ones who feel or believe the way they do. It ceates for them a sense of fellowship and belonging. I say great for them. I don't need that...so I don't go. My beliefs are mine and they are not open to other peoples opinions. That's more than I have shared about religion....EVER!!! Thanks for being there fellas. Higgie, you are your brother's keeper. You may not need a sense of belonging in the "communion of saints" but others definitely do. Remember "love your fellow man"? Well, hell, I did my part at church today. Old Irv is gonna be wondering all week who I am, where he met me, and how I shook his hand at church this morning.
It will probably keep him off the internet porn sites and keep him from arguing with his wife being so wound up thinking about it. You got to think positive when you go to church!
Now that's funny right there!! Irv may think you saw him at the titty bar the other night, and that is where you know him from.
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I do not attend church formally. I believe in God and Satan has no place in my home or in my heart. I believe that God gave his only son to die for our sins and that the rest is up to us. Having said all of that I don't need to go to a building to feel reaffirmed about my faith or it's place in my life. Organized religion is a crutch that some people require to feel/know that they are not the only ones who feel or believe the way they do. It ceates for them a sense of fellowship and belonging. I say great for them. I don't need that...so I don't go. My beliefs are mine and they are not open to other peoples opinions. That's more than I have shared about religion....EVER!!! Thanks for being there fellas. Higgie, you are your brother's keeper. You may not need a sense of belonging in the "communion of saints" but others definitely do. Remember "love your fellow man"? Well, hell, I did my part at church today. Old Irv is gonna be wondering all week who I am, where he met me, and how I shook his hand at church this morning.
It will probably keep him off the internet porn sites and keep him from arguing with his wife being so wound up thinking about it. You got to think positive when you go to church!
Now that's funny right there!! Irv may think you saw him at the titty bar the other night, and that is where you know him from. Yeah, but that don't mean you don't need to go to church. I know there's no place to hide when they past the offering plate but that shouldn't keep you from going. Just put a piece of blank paper in an envelope and drop it in the offering plate when they bring it to you. That way you don't have to hide or leave early.
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I do not attend church formally. I believe in God and Satan has no place in my home or in my heart. I believe that God gave his only son to die for our sins and that the rest is up to us. Having said all of that I don't need to go to a building to feel reaffirmed about my faith or it's place in my life. Organized religion is a crutch that some people require to feel/know that they are not the only ones who feel or believe the way they do. It ceates for them a sense of fellowship and belonging. I say great for them. I don't need that...so I don't go. My beliefs are mine and they are not open to other peoples opinions. That's more than I have shared about religion....EVER!!! Thanks for being there fellas. Higgie, you are your brother's keeper. You may not need a sense of belonging in the "communion of saints" but others definitely do. Remember "love your fellow man"? Well, hell, I did my part at church today. Old Irv is gonna be wondering all week who I am, where he met me, and how I shook his hand at church this morning.
It will probably keep him off the internet porn sites and keep him from arguing with his wife being so wound up thinking about it. You got to think positive when you go to church!
Now that's funny right there!! Irv may think you saw him at the titty bar the other night, and that is where you know him from. Yeah, but that don't mean you don't need to go to church. I know there's no place to hide when they past the offering plate but that shouldn't keep you from going. Just put a piece of blank paper in an envelope and drop it in the offering plate when they bring it to you. That way you don't have to hide or leave early. You and I are more alike you than you know. I can't stand a hypocrite! Most people I know are religious as hell on Sunday and Wednesday and the biggest cock-suckers you ever met every other day of the week. You either live it or you don't. I am who I am, and if that is not what is allowed into heaven that is how it is. But... I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of hypocrites who think they got the corner on the God market. You keep God in your way good people, and let me keep God in mine! Not that mine is any better mind you.
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You and I are more alike you than you know. I can't stand a hypocrite! Most people I know are religious as hell on Sunday and Wednesday and the biggest cock-suckers you ever met every other day of the week. You either live it or you don't. I am who I am, and if that is not what is allowed into heaven that is how it is. But... I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of hypocrites who think they got the corner on the God market. You keep God in your way good people, and let me keep God in mine! Not that mine is any better mind you. We're all hypocrites to some degree or another. And I ain't going to church to deal with hypocrites. Not that I can't, just that I don't want to. They might prove to be a bigger hypocrite than I am and it might piss me off.
I'm going to church for my wife and for me. I don't have to deal with the politics, I don't have to really believe everything the preacher says. But I do need to worship the Lord and praise the Savior and church is where HE wants us to go on the "seventh day". And there is the "communion of saints" that you can't get around - you need to be there to participate. I ain't gonna judge nobody to the point I condemn them in a church I go to from now on. Just go, worry about yourself and your relation with the Good Lord and not others. |
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You and I are more alike you than you know. I can't stand a hypocrite! Most people I know are religious as hell on Sunday and Wednesday and the biggest cock-suckers you ever met every other day of the week. You either live it or you don't. I am who I am, and if that is not what is allowed into heaven that is how it is. But... I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of hypocrites who think they got the corner on the God market. You keep God in your way good people, and let me keep God in mine! Not that mine is any better mind you. We're all hypocrites to some degree or another. And I ain't going to church to deal with hypocrites. Not that I can't, just that I don't want to. They might prove to be a bigger hypocrite than I am and it might piss me off.
I'm going to church for my wife and for me. I don't have to deal with the politics, I don't have to really believe everything the preacher says. But I do need to worship the Lord and praise the Savior and church is where HE wants us to go on the "seventh day". And there is the "communion of saints" that you can't get around - you need to be there to participate. I ain't gonna judge nobody to the point I condemn them in a church I go to from now on. Just go, worry about yourself and your relation with the Good Lord and not others. Dan, A church is just a building. If you burn the building down do you destroy faith, God, belief or the religion itself? Remember in the bible it says that the person who worships alone receives more favor than the person who worships in public for everyone to see. If you need to go to church then by all means go. If you need a building and community to have a sense of faith and value then by all means go. If you need brotherhood and fellowship, then by all means go. I don't need any of that when it comes to faith and belief in God. I don't care who does and who does not! I have my own way of worshipping and believing in god and works, and it works for me. People who need more should go to church and have their beliefs reaffirmed in whatever way they require. I do not condemn it or condone it. It is truly a matter of personal choice. |
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If you're going to a church full of politicians, you're going to the wrong church. Amen to that. +1. See that is where you are both wrong. There is no wrong church if it preaches the word. There may be better choices for different individuals.
I can slip in, slip out, and not worry about the politics, the cliches, and the hypocrisy. Those problems are not mine. The only problem I have is doing what the Good Lord wants me to do. And that is go to church. Besides that, my boss tells me I need to (which means I'd better!) go. And she runs the house. |
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Higgi, I appreciate your profession of faith. Your statement of a belief in Christ is more than most are willing to share. I am glad you know Him. I think you speak for a lot of folks on how people feel, but that doesn't remove our responsibility to assemble together. Dan is right about encouraging one another. We all miss the mark. Period. We are all sinners and compared to God's standard and Christ's life, we will never be able to earn it. That is why Christ paid that price––because we could not.
Because we could not, we feel guilty about it. We see others around us and think...'You've got to be kidding.' That makes us feel a little better but then we see some one we respect and we know what we do and what we've done and so it makes us uncomfortable. Paul knew that. That is why he instructed us in the book of Hebrews this way: Hebrews 10 22 - let us go right into the presence of God, with true hearts fully trusting him. For our evil consciences have been sprinkled with Christ's blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. 23 - Without wavering, let us hold tightly to the hope we say we have, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 - Think of ways to encourage one another to outbursts of love and good deeds. 25 - And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage and warn each other, especially now that the day of his coming back again is drawing near. Higgi, I would never go to a church that HAD no hypocrites. I would ruin it. The truth is, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Paul instructs us in Hebrews to assemble together to encourage one another and to learn from one another. I would never learn the great things in God's word without meeting with other Christians. I would never be challenged by my buddies either. I just would not be that disciplined. And Dan is right. We also meet to worship a mighty God. That is between Him and us, but he desires His people to do it together. It shows us we are not alone. Thanks for your openness. I appreciate being able to live in a free country to comment on it as well and mean no offense. But as a brother in Christ, I wanted to join in. Steve |
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Higgi, I appreciate your profession of faith. Your statement of a belief in Christ is more than most are willing to share. I am glad you know Him. I think you speak for a lot of folks on how people feel, but that doesn't remove our responsibility to assemble together. Dan is right about encouraging one another. We all miss the mark. Period. We are all sinners and compared to God's standard and Christ's life, we will never be able to earn it. That is why Christ paid that price––because we could not. Because we could not, we feel guilty about it. We see others around us and think...'You've got to be kidding.' That makes us feel a little better but then we see some one we respect and we know what we do and what we've done and so it makes us uncomfortable. Paul knew that. That is why he instructed us in the book of Hebrews this way: Hebrews 10 22 - let us go right into the presence of God, with true hearts fully trusting him. For our evil consciences have been sprinkled with Christ's blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. 23 - Without wavering, let us hold tightly to the hope we say we have, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 - Think of ways to encourage one another to outbursts of love and good deeds. 25 - And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage and warn each other, especially now that the day of his coming back again is drawing near. Higgi, I would never go to a church that HAD no hypocrites. I would ruin it. The truth is, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Paul instructs us in Hebrews to assemble together to encourage one another and to learn from one another. I would never learn the great things in God's word without meeting with other Christians. I would never be challenged by my buddies either. I just would not be that disciplined. And Dan is right. We also meet to worship a mighty God. That is between Him and us, but he desires His people to do it together. It shows us we are not alone. Thanks for your openness. I appreciate being able to live in a free country to comment on it as well and mean no offense. But as a brother in Christ, I wanted to join in. Steve I cannot argue that point at all. I think we are all a little right here. Glad to know we can discuss this rationally without bullets or fists flying over it! So I will leave it at that. Amen! |
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I cannot argue that point at all. I think we are all a little right here. Glad to know we can discuss this rationally without bullets or fists flying over it! So I will leave it at that. Amen! Yeah! Get your ass to church or I'm gonna kick the breath out of you!
Seriously Higgie, there isn't anyone more cynical than I am (except maybe for Chuck and Ndenway) here on this board. I'm not crazy about this church I'm going to but it ain't really that bad. The preacher said something about tithing after the offering. I immediately didn't hear anything else until he went onto the next part of his message. Then my wife said something about us tithing. You can guess how that went over with me. If a church has more money than it needs, it will be a guarantee it will overbuild. Not for the ministry but for bragging rights in the community. Christ and the disciples spread the word with little more than the clothes on their back. I understand completely your disdain for the hypocrisy of some members in churches. But the Good Lord didn't put it there, He allowed Satan to do it so you would have a choice. Nothing in this world is perfect, You do the best with what you have. That is the choice you have - to do as He says or not. He's not going to condemn you for trying and failing. But He will condemn you for knowing the difference and making the wrong choice. That's where I'm at anyway. |
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Went back to church again.
This is gettting to be a real habit. I know most of you are wondering why a man of my incredible good looks, superior intelligence, and overpowering modesty would go to church Sunday after Sunday. It's to better my soul obiously. And I'd better or my wife will kick my ass.
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