[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Oklahoma Economic Problems (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/22/2009 9:55:03 PM EDT
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My wife is middle management for a large oil company here in Oklahoma. As part of her job, she flies to Houston on regular basis and has for several years.
She has remarked more than once that Will Rogers Airport is slowing way down and that the planes between here and Houston have less passengers each time she flies. The oil field is cutting back becasue of the low price on oil When the oil patch starts hurting in Oklahoma, we have major economc problems. Save your money and develop a taste for Ramen noodles. It may get that bad by next summer. |
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since the bailout did squat, i mean besides fund some executive bonuses, i think this year we'll see the stock market crash start to trickle down to joe average. somehow, i don't think the messiah will be producing any miracles.
i know a good bankruptcy attorney if anybody gets to that point. |
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a lot of people have been hurting for several years now, lots of layoffs/cutbacks and plenty of businesses downsizing by not filling job vacancies or allowing OT for their remaining employees. Yes, the slide down to a low average wage in Oklahoma has been going on since the Right to Work bull shit got passed. Supposedly it was going to bring better jobs to Oklahoma. Since then we've lost GM, Dayton Tire, and Lucent. All higher paying jobs in the OKC area gone. We've had discussions with the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their comments the jobs have been replaced by the growth of Devon and Chesepeake jobs. Tinker, the State, and Walmart are the largest employers in the state. Only Tinker pays half way decent and it's not growing. If you think it's bad now, it's going to get worse with much of the oil field slowing down. |
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I work in commercial/industrial construction and it is slowing down and it is scary. I was totally against Right to Work. You bring in more jobs because the Union would not be as involved or totally dissolved and these people could pay you a lot less than a strong union state. But who needs Right to Work? The businessmen are way ahead of that. Mexico, China and India are proof of that.
The bailout money that no one knows what happened to? They should have given that to us instead. I would have got back to the banks anyway. Everyone has one of the following or all, house payment, car payment or credit card. If the assholes need it at least it would be sent into their system in a way it could be tracked better. They are all predatory lenders! Their lust for our money put them in this situation. NO MORE BAILOUTS, no more Fed Reserve, no more IRS, and I don't even want their bullshit rebate, refund or whatever it is. It is just like giving a child candy after going to the doctor. It isn't going to fix anything. It will just make inflation worse. |
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Think about all that bailout money for the automakers.....They should have told them, you want the money? Build your goddamn cars and trucks here, in the U.S., not Mexico. Among other places.......
I am a Union member....I worked for Ford Motor Company, at the glass plant, in Tulsa. I still work there, for another company, and make 1/2 of what I made before. I'm lucky, I've still got a job. All that bullshit that the media....(especially the anti-union media, which is pretty much all of 'em)....spouted off about the United Auto Workers making 75 bucks an hour?? Lemme tell ya brother, that's bullshit! Not even if you figured in ALL the benefits, did we make 75 bucks an hour......I never bitched about what I earned, of course. I also didn't take it for granted and worked my ass off.....that's the way I'm wired, do your job and be the best at it....if not, You're not trying hard enough. Unfortunately, there are many, many people in those types of jobs, who are deadbeat sumbitches, and would have had their asses FIRED in the "real world". But the Union protects them.....so I guess people shouldn't have much sympathy for us, because it really seems like we(union) did this to ourselves.... I apologize for the rant.... Somebody please kick this soapbox out from under me....quick! 
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a lot of people have been hurting for several years now, lots of layoffs/cutbacks and plenty of businesses downsizing by not filling job vacancies or allowing OT for their remaining employees. Yes, the slide down to a low average wage in Oklahoma has been going on since the Right to Work bull shit got passed. Supposedly it was going to bring better jobs to Oklahoma. Since then we've lost GM, Dayton Tire, and Lucent. All higher paying jobs in the OKC area gone. We've had discussions with the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their comments the jobs have been replaced by the growth of Devon and Chesepeake jobs. Tinker, the State, and Walmart are the largest employers in the state. Only Tinker pays half way decent and it's not growing. If you think it's bad now, it's going to get worse with much of the oil field slowing down. well Dan, as of right now the biggest employer in the state is the indian tribes/casinos, they pay on par a slightly better average wage than the surounding businesses in their communities, and also give more funds to their local communities for special projects/improvements than any other business in the state. of course casinos are like every other entertainment business, when the participating public is hurting, they have less funds available for entertainment, and they begin looking for a better value for their entertainment dollar. people will stop visiting casinos as much, to be able to have funding to take their families on vacations, camping trips or visits to family out of state. |
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a lot of people have been hurting for several years now, lots of layoffs/cutbacks and plenty of businesses downsizing by not filling job vacancies or allowing OT for their remaining employees. Yes, the slide down to a low average wage in Oklahoma has been going on since the Right to Work bull shit got passed. Supposedly it was going to bring better jobs to Oklahoma. Since then we've lost GM, Dayton Tire, and Lucent. All higher paying jobs in the OKC area gone. We've had discussions with the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their comments the jobs have been replaced by the growth of Devon and Chesepeake jobs. Tinker, the State, and Walmart are the largest employers in the state. Only Tinker pays half way decent and it's not growing. If you think it's bad now, it's going to get worse with much of the oil field slowing down. well Dan, as of right now the biggest employer in the state is the indian tribes/casinos, they pay on par a slightly better average wage than the surounding businesses in their communities, and also give more funds to their local communities for special projects/improvements than any other business in the state. of course casinos are like every other entertainment business, when the participating public is hurting, they have less funds available for entertainment, and they begin looking for a better value for their entertainment dollar. people will stop visiting casinos as much, to be able to have funding to take their families on vacations, camping trips or visits to family out of state. Sorry, Brother L, you are right about the casinos being the largest employers in the state. There are over 200 of them last time my buddy from the Horse Racing Commission told me. He keeps busy with the racinos and horse racing crap. He does the back ground checks on all the job applicants to the racinos as well as enforce state gambling laws. You got to meet him some day. But you know, I think the worse things will get, some casinos will do much better. People looking for the big kill, hoping for a return to better times. I know some folks will spend their last dime gambling. The UAW has a joke about their retirees from GM, all getting second jobs at the Riverwind Casino. 
I'm staying out of the PACs and congressional offices from now on. I want to reach across and slap the shit out of the yes men and broads the Senators and Congressmen have. The ones that try to make you feel good but don't do shit about anything - even after they promise. And disappear when you try to find out why they didn't do what they say. I'm afraid things are going to get shittier around here than in 1990. Prices on homes are going to drop, land will come down, because the banks won't lend on items they thing will depreciate instead of appreciate. And the scarier thing is the bailout bullshit is not going to put much money into the middle class. Right now the rest of the bailout money is being argued about because the legislators are getting it set up so they and their sponsors/owners will get the majority of it. A little may trickle down our way, but not too much to Oklahoma. And if it goes to infrastructure such as road construction, the dumb ass State gov't will control it which means a large chunk will get wasted. Looks bad, worse than I thought it would 8 or 9 months ago. Make provisions if you can by saving if possible. And if hyper inflation sets in, you better have spent your money on something you can retain in possession, you will be wiping your ass with $100 for all they will be worth.
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the more I read about the economy and the newly elected president's actions and future plans the more I think, "wow... what a great year to have a child."  
on the bright side life is going to get a lot more entertaining for me  habs, your child, my grandchildren, the future generations are the ones I worry about. My grand parents, my parents, made it possible for me to live a very good life, very comfortable, and well off. This nation isn't doing anything to increase the welfare of our future generations. They are destroying their future. It sickens me, bothers me a lot. So bad I can cry when I think of what they may have to live through. |
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ckelley, Tinbender, I'm a union member - IBEW 1141, JIW, retired.
Yes, the unions sunk their own ship in a way. I've tried to get the AFL-CIO off their dead asses to move on getting the union retirees organized and making political actions. But the state president is a typical politician, full of hot air and no action. We went to the state AFL-CIO convention and passed out fliers to get the locals retirees organized. We were told we would be thrown out for trespassing. We went anyway and handed out several hundred fliers, got a lot of sympathetic ears from union officers. Then got shot down with an empty promise at the convention that the state AFL-CIO was doing something similar. Which they didn't. Union leadership for the most part doesn't have any balls or back bone. Some do, but they are few and far between. |
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I hear you. During the Right to Work I tried to call in to radio shows and tell everyone what it meant and what the effects would be. Our own union Sheet Metal Workers #124 set up a call center with other unions to call who? Other union members! WTF!!! We know what it is, talk to the general public. And the anti Right to Work commercials were just as crazy as the pro side. Our side countered the pro side with their own propaganda and didn't state facts so the general public never knew shit. All the sheep knew is that Right to Work is good and Right to Work = Jobs. Jack and Ron (I don't listen often) were on the Union side but the sheep didn't even have any idea what Right to Work would change.
I hear all the time well if the UAW wasn't around cars would be cheaper. Wake up for fuck sake everyone! Yeah right! The CEOs would make more and guess what your car would cost the same. I wish more people would pay attention to what is going on here in this country. |
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BOO Hoo damn union workers crying like babies. Don't care for a free market? Try someplace else.
Unions had a place and served a purpose back in the early 1900s. All they are doing now is putting thier own members out of work. Your labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. NOT what some other agency deems is "fair". Many moons ago I was a member of the steelworkers union. Saw enough to know that it was hurting the economy/country. having to suffer through a union "investigation" at work right now. Over some bullshit. At least lawyers are making money from it Dumbasses
Flame away guys. |
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My uncle has an interesting post on his blog regarding the auto bailouts.
http://www.nicholls.edu/bastiatsbastions/2008/12/06/car-companies-bailouts-and-the-forgotten-man/ |
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I quit my job of almost 20 years about 20 months back. The economy was overheated, fuel and costs were high, and no sign of a payraise/cost of living raise! Hadn't had a raise in 4 years before that, nobody in the dealership had except management!
I immediatly went into business for myself, and have been booming. So far more work than I can deal with. I'm an ex-patriot John Deere tech. The dealership keep raising labor rates, don't pass a lick of it on to the employees, wonder why the employees are disgrunteled. Also don't understand why the customers come to me. I've been replaced two or three times at my old dealership. They hire an inexperienced kid, he screws up a bunch of work, the customer comes to me then. I weed through my customers, keep the good guys, send the turds on to the dealership. Always too busy to work on a turds stuff! I turn work away often. I hate to, but it's better than not getting it all done in a timely fashion. I wouldn't likely have stayed afloat for the last 2 years if I had stayed at my old employer. So far, knock on wood, I've been busy busy. If the farm economy goes tits up, I may be screwed!  Have to get a job!
I like being self employed. If I want to lock up, and go shooting or hunting, maybe attend the kids ballgames, I just go. Nobody to answer to except my customers(who don't want to deal with the dealership), and my bank account. |
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BOO Hoo damn union workers crying like babies. Don't care for a free market? Try someplace else. Unions had a place and served a purpose back in the early 1900s. All they are doing now is putting thier own members out of work. Your labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. NOT what some other agency deems is "fair". Many moons ago I was a member of the steelworkers union. Saw enough to know that it was hurting the economy/country. having to suffer through a union "investigation" at work right now. Over some bullshit. At least lawyers are making money from it Dumbasses
Flame away guys. What union are you in? Why aren't you a steelworker anymore? I know what you are saying in a way. The UAW and some other factory workers have almost placed themselves out of work because of their wages. The old mentality of getting paid as much as possible isn't going to work today. We (union) dictate our own wages. Being in a trade union is completely different than being a factory worker. Our local union operates very independently from the international union. Our union pretty much begins and ends with our wages. Union rules aren't enforced in my union and there is little brotherhood. Everyone cuts each others throats everyday. I still believe the unions help keep wages up for everyone. Not everyone in my union deserves their wage but that is anywhere. All I am getting at is in the trade union that I am in it is a far cry from the UAW and others. No paid holidays, no days off with pay, no vacation basically no work no pay not even for strikes. NO WORK NO PAY. I do work hard everyday and I deserve my money. Come out and work with me and you might be the one boo hooing. I can't blame anyone for getting out of construction. But you sure the steel workers union wasn't just hurting your back and not the economy/country. I do respect your opinion at least you shared even though I don't totally agree. BOO HOO I flamed, you happy  ????
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BOO Hoo damn union workers crying like babies. Don't care for a free market? Try someplace else. Unions had a place and served a purpose back in the early 1900s. All they are doing now is putting thier own members out of work. Your labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. NOT what some other agency deems is "fair". Many moons ago I was a member of the steelworkers union. Saw enough to know that it was hurting the economy/country. having to suffer through a union "investigation" at work right now. Over some bullshit. At least lawyers are making money from it Dumbasses
Flame away guys. Yeah, well I saw enough non-union jobs done for the OKARNG and OKANG to know they do sup par shit. Enough that a $2 Million fuel farm at the Lexington AASF didn't work after a year due to piss poor installation. And that a $11 Million hangar needed another $750K to bring it up to codes and it still didn't meet the regs. A state inspector signed off on (without seeing it because of pressurefrom the big shots - he turned it down twice before. Unions do give better installations and more value for the money in building trades. Gov't unions, well, shit, it has gov't involved. Sure it's screwed up. ETA - After I made some noise I got my wheels jerked out from under me keeping me from seeing the other fucked up jobs that non-unions did for the Dept of Central Services. That and I few other things pissed me of so bad I left. I've seen them spend a $150K on a hangar door when $600 worth of paint - no labor costs because the use convicts - would have fixed the problem. Tell me again about how non-union companies give you the best value for the money. 
Chuck, you hard headed old retired Army puke, I'm gonna have to straighten you out one of these days! 
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Things are definatley slowing down in the O&G industry. The state is getting alot less in tax revenue.
We'll see how long the slowdown last. Right now everyone is cutting drilling and pulling back. If large layoffs start it'll get real ugly. I'm holding my breathe. The inflation is what really scares me. We have a nice savings account and could get by a while unemployed but if $1000 turns into $100 its a different story. |
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BOO Hoo damn union workers crying like babies. Don't care for a free market? Try someplace else. Unions had a place and served a purpose back in the early 1900s. All they are doing now is putting thier own members out of work. Your labor is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. NOT what some other agency deems is "fair". Many moons ago I was a member of the steelworkers union. Saw enough to know that it was hurting the economy/country. having to suffer through a union "investigation" at work right now. Over some bullshit. At least lawyers are making money from it Dumbasses
Flame away guys. Yeah, well I saw enough non-union jobs done for the OKARNG and OKANG to know they do sup par shit. Enough that a $2 Million fuel farm at the Lexington AASF didn't work after a year due to piss poor installation. And that a $11 Million hangar needed another $750K to bring it up to codes and it still didn't meet the regs. A state inspector signed off on (without seeing it because of pressurefrom the big shots - he turned it down twice before. Unions do give better installations and more value for the money in building trades. Gov't unions, well, shit, it has gov't involved. Sure it's screwed up. ETA - After I made some noise I got my wheels jerked out from under me keeping me from seeing the other fucked up jobs that non-unions did for the Dept of Central Services. That and I few other things pissed me of so bad I left. I've seen them spend a $150K on a hangar door when $600 worth of paint - no labor costs because the use convicts - would have fixed the problem. Tell me again about how non-union companies give you the best value for the money.
Chuck, you hard headed old retired Army puke, I'm gonna have to straighten you out one of these days!
Impossible
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I build houses......I'm doing great right now!
Actually, thanks to a niche market, everything is okay right now. Save your money, sonny. It ain't gonna last to much longer. No worries...my wife is officially Dr. Cu...... now. I'm thinking of applying at Fister's company! |
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The oilfield is already hurting. Most of the drilling companies have about half of there rigs stacked out (not working). Their not spending money right now.
I work in the oilfield as a contract welder. I haven't worked in about 5 weeks and there are many more like myself. |
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My wife travels to Houston often conerning gulf rigs. She has told me several times there are fewer and fewer people on the plane each time she goes. And Will Rogers Airport is not very busy compared to a year ago.
Most of this is due to the oil field slowing down. |
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I build houses......I'm doing great right now!
Actually, thanks to a niche market, everything is okay right now. Save your money, sonny. It ain't gonna last to much longer. No worries...my wife is officially Dr. Cu...... now. I'm thinking of applying at Fister's company! Well I would be glad to have you. Just think of what all we can acomplish
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I build houses......I'm doing great right now!
Actually, thanks to a niche market, everything is okay right now. Save your money, sonny. It ain't gonna last to much longer. No worries...my wife is officially Dr. Cu...... now. I'm thinking of applying at Fister's company! Well I would be glad to have you. Just think of what all we can acomplish
Yeah, mostly make Rat jealous.
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Yes, the unions sunk their own ship in a way. Union leadership for the most part doesn't have any balls or back bone. Some do, but they are few and far between. very true......I always picture Mel Brooks, in Blazing Saddles..."Gentlemen, we've got to save our phoney baloney jobs" Pretty much describes the UAW leadership. Chucks1911....no boo hoo union whining here, I think our union plain sucks....I do have a problem with the CEO's golden fuckin parachutes.....but they don't wanna pay the people who produce...... So you gotta have a little give & take. It's ok for them to fleece a corporation because??? But you people that get dirty don't deserve any consideration when the company makes money. What??? The company didn't make any money??? Where did CEO jackass' bonus come from? Who's fuckin who here? Sure doesn't sound like the workin man? For what it's worth.....I was a Mechanic/Technician, industrial, automotive and heavy equipment, for 20 years in the "real world", before I ever knew one damn thing about a union. Try to get a Journeymans card if you're not related to someone in the click......so much for unskilled labor..... |
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Watching the news tonight and the DHS reported there are 443,000 Okies using food stamps.
The population is 3.6 million. That means one of 9 Okies are using food stamps. We are close to our all time high of 445000 in 2005. It looks to me like we'll pass that up very shortly this year.
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| Times like this make me glad I'm in the job that I am and work for an employer I like. I'm a police officer and there's always gonna be crime, so job security is pretty good when paired with good work and seniority. Actually, this economy may help me out. For years now law enforcement has had difficulty getting good, qualified applicants. This young generation is too self-centered and instant - money oriented to want basic government work like LEO's. With the market, economy, and business downturn, some of them may actually look for stable paying work with good benefits over a high risk to quick money combination. We'll see. |
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Large agencies and the state may pay decent wages to LEOs. But small towns don't pay more than just a few dollars over minimum wage.
Most LEOs I know have to work part time jobs to support their families and make a decent living. I honestly believe LEOs are underpaid. But with poor tax revenue coming in gov't budgets get cut. A decent wage or adequate manpower in a LE agency doesn't seem likely. During bad economic times I hope I am wrong.
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Large agencies and the state may pay decent wages to LEOs. But small towns don't pay more than just a few dollars over minimum wage. Most LEOs I know have to work part time jobs to support their families and make a decent living. I honestly believe LEOs are underpaid. But with poor tax revenue coming in gov't budgets get cut. A decent wage or adequate manpower in a LE agency doesn't seem likely. During bad economic times I hope I am wrong. I agree with just about everything you've said. There is a major difference between large vs. small agencies, and I've worked for both. Small agencies could pay better if the city management or council is LEO friendly, but a lot of city managers see police and fire as the first place to cut budgets because they are the departments least likely to pay for themselves, unlike power or water and their revenue streams. That's why it's important to my employer to get out there and recruit good officers from the applicant pool that exists. I'm just hoping that applicant pool expands and gets better as more people look for job stability and benefits. It's been my experience that government jobs are generally more stable (private businesses are bought, sold, and shuttered everyday), and benefits are less likely to have drastic changes. |
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With the changes at CLEET in Ada by lengthening the required educational hours, and the rising drop out rate of those attending the academy, I hope your agency has it's own academy. Because you can hire someone only having to cut them loose because of not tolerating Ada.well.
Best of luck on your staffing! |
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Times like this make me glad I'm in the job that I am and work for an employer I like. I'm a police officer and there's always gonna be crime, so job security is pretty good when paired with good work and seniority. Actually, this economy may help me out. For years now law enforcement has had difficulty getting good, qualified applicants. This young generation is too self-centered and instant - money oriented to want basic government work like LEO's. With the market, economy, and business downturn, some of them may actually look for stable paying work with good benefits over a high risk to quick money combination. We'll see. I don't know where you're doing the cop thing but around here(Lawton area), there are usually 9,000 applicants for every position. Small towns, which as discussed do not even pay a living wage have more reserves(slave labor) than they need. Smaller towns seem to attract the retarded little hitlers (not all, but a good number) that for whatever reason cannot or choose not to get on at a larger dept. All work multiple jobs to get by. Do we even need to go into the politics of it all too?
While I'm glad that you guys are around, I personally have no use for you. Well, except for the one that I'm married to anyway.
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While I'm glad that you guys are around, I personally have no use for you. Well, except for the one that I'm married to anyway.
That's just because she brings home a paycheck and let's you spend money on gun stuff. 
Was I complaining? 
No, you were bragging. 
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I don't know where you're doing the cop thing but around here(Lawton area), there are usually 9,000 applicants for every position. Small towns, which as discussed do not even pay a living wage have more reserves(slave labor) than they need. Smaller towns seem to attract the retarded little hitlers (not all, but a good number) that for whatever reason cannot or choose not to get on at a larger dept. All work multiple jobs to get by. Do we even need to go into the politics of it all too? I work in the northcentral part of the state. The days of having hundreds of applicants for every single sworn officer position opening have been gone for a long time now, and I've heard that from almost every department around, large and small alike. Even the last guy we sent to the FBI National Academy came back and said it's a national trend. I work for a larger agency and during the past few rounds of hiring, we have been lucky if we got a pool of 20 or so just to come out and take the written test and first interview. Those two steps cut that pool by half, and that's before we even get to a background check. And no, we don't need to get in the local politics of it all, I bet we are all fully aware of that. |
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....And no, we don't need to get in the local politics of it all, I bet we are all fully aware of that. I have a friend, retired from a state agency, now working on his second retiremetn, that is an investigator for the AG's office. You have no idea of what kind of politics are played on the state level. It makes city or county politics look like a church service. |
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I don't know where you're doing the cop thing but around here(Lawton area), there are usually 9,000 applicants for every position. Small towns, which as discussed do not even pay a living wage have more reserves(slave labor) than they need. Smaller towns seem to attract the retarded little hitlers (not all, but a good number) that for whatever reason cannot or choose not to get on at a larger dept. All work multiple jobs to get by. Do we even need to go into the politics of it all too? I work in the northcentral part of the state. , and I've heard that from almost every department around, large and small alike. Even the last guy we sent to the FBI National Academy came back anThe days of having hundreds of applicants for every single sworn officer position opening have been gone for a long time nowd said it's a national trend. I work for a larger agency and during the past few rounds of hiring, we have been lucky if we got a pool of 20 or so just to come out and take the written test and first interview. Those two steps cut that pool by half, and that's before we even get to a background check. And no, we don't need to get in the local politics of it all, I bet we are all fully aware of that. I'm telling you that its still that way around here. Lawton finally got approved to do thier own certification from CLEET (mafia). Got tired of sending the guys and gals down to ADA for what has it grown to now? 9 weeks? 16 weeks? Having them beat all to hell from DT, some on worksman comp claims from it. |
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The oilfield is shutting down really fast around here. They started their hiring freezes about 2 months ago and now many have already been laying people off. I was running hotshots, but the work has dried up so I am currently looking for a job.
As far as the leo thing goes, I have given up on that career. The little agencies don't pay enough and the big agencies all want a degree and they don't pay much better. To top it off the big agencies want you to attend their academy even if you're already certified. I have been though it once and really don't want to go through it again. For now I may just get a job as a convenience store or something and try and go back to school. Hell it pay just as good as being a cop with half the bullshit. |
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I hate to agree with Dan...
Economic numbers for the rest of this year project to be horrific. Deflation followed by hyperinflation is a very real possibility. Hopefully not a probability. I am not encouraged by the current tone in Washington or by their proposals to "fix" things. A financial collapse of historic proportions is in play (not probable, possible). What a difference a year makes. Eh Dan? |