Posted: 9/13/2009 10:14:11 PM EDT
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Marine gets 8 years in Trust game death
By Trista Talton - Staff writer Posted : Saturday Sep 12, 2009 9:10:06 EDT CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Cpl. Mathew Nelson felt certain his Marines knew he wouldn’t shoot whenever he pointed his 9mm service pistol at them. He never intended to shoot and kill 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Patrick Malone last March. But now Nelson, 25, will spend the next eight years in prison for killing Malone with an accidental gunshot to the forehead — the result of a game gone terribly wrong, a game he and his fellow members of 2nd section, Scout Platoon, 2nd Tank Battalion, called “Trust.” Nelson pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and seven counts of reckless endangerment Thursday at a general court-martial at Camp Lejeune, N.C. Members of his unit played Trust like this: A noncommissioned officer would partially insert a magazine into his M9 and pretend to rack the slide, simulating the chambering of a round. Then he’d point the pistol and ask, “Do you trust me?” When the question was answered, typically in the affirmative, he would then either pull the trigger or lower the gun to clear it. Nelson is the third member of the unit to be court-martialed for crimes related to playing the game, along with another corporal and a Navy corpsman 2nd class. A fourth member, a sergeant, is awaiting trial. More could still be charged. Original Article Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???  Two others were convicted earlier? I must've missed these incidents.
What a waste. If an exercise intended to build espirit de corps might be called an atrocity if inflicted on a non-combatant, then the stupid exercise has no place in any unit. The stupidest I'd heard until now was the idea of 'pinning on stripes' by striking the subdued metal rank (while being worn by a recent promotee) forcing the backing pins to dig into flesh. If one was lucky, in such a unit, it happened all at once, and the stripes were just embedded into a chest muscle while the 'honoree' was held down by his friends. The unlucky ones get their 'reward' unexpectedly over an extended period of time, with the pins going in wherever the rank happens to be. I hope the whole chain-of-command ... Platoon Sergeant, Platoon Leader on up to the battalion ... get some serious scrutiny about this one. |
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Wow, completely retarded....
But in response to this statement: Quoted:
The stupidest I'd heard until now was the idea of 'pinning on stripes' by striking the subdued metal rank (while being worn by a recent promotee) forcing the backing pins to dig into flesh. If one was lucky, in such a unit, it happened all at once, and the stripes were just embedded into a chest muscle while the 'honoree' was held down by his friends. The unlucky ones get their 'reward' unexpectedly over an extended period of time, with the pins going in wherever the rank happens to be.
You make that sound ten times more horrible than it really is. I know I looked forward to congratulatory slaps on my collar that I recieved after being promoted and not wearing the backing pins on my rank for the rest of the day. You should hear what happens when we earn our bloodstripes, that's a pretty horrible ceremony too.. |
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Quoted:
Marine gets 8 years in Trust game death
By Trista Talton - Staff writer Posted : Saturday Sep 12, 2009 9:10:06 EDT CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Cpl. Mathew Nelson felt certain his Marines knew he wouldn’t shoot whenever he pointed his 9mm service pistol at them. He never intended to shoot and kill 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Patrick Malone last March. But now Nelson, 25, will spend the next eight years in prison for killing Malone with an accidental gunshot to the forehead — the result of a game gone terribly wrong, a game he and his fellow members of 2nd section, Scout Platoon, 2nd Tank Battalion, called “Trust.” Nelson pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter and seven counts of reckless endangerment Thursday at a general court-martial at Camp Lejeune, N.C. Members of his unit played Trust like this: A noncommissioned officer would partially insert a magazine into his M9 and pretend to rack the slide, simulating the chambering of a round. Then he’d point the pistol and ask, “Do you trust me?” When the question was answered, typically in the affirmative, he would then either pull the trigger or lower the gun to clear it. Nelson is the third member of the unit to be court-martialed for crimes related to playing the game, along with another corporal and a Navy corpsman 2nd class. A fourth member, a sergeant, is awaiting trial. More could still be charged. Original Article Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??? Two others were convicted earlier? I must've missed these incidents.
What a waste. If an exercise intended to build espirit de corps might be called an atrocity if inflicted on a non-combatant, then the stupid exercise has no place in any unit. The stupidest I'd heard until now was the idea of 'pinning on stripes' by striking the subdued metal rank (while being worn by a recent promotee) forcing the backing pins to dig into flesh. If one was lucky, in such a unit, it happened all at once, and the stripes were just embedded into a chest muscle while the 'honoree' was held down by his friends. The unlucky ones get their 'reward' unexpectedly over an extended period of time, with the pins going in wherever the rank happens to be. I hope the whole chain-of-command ... Platoon Sergeant, Platoon Leader on up to the battalion ... get some serious scrutiny about this one. You come off like a 'tard... or some kind of pogue. 'Pinning' chevrons is a time honored tradition. A squad leader would be worthless if he didnt pound both his fists down into the collar of one of his junior Marines after that Marine was promoted. There's about a 1/4 of an inch of a metal spike on a rank chevron, if you think pushing that into a Marine's chest in a celebration of promotion is stupid, then quit bitching about USMC tradition and pop "A Few Good Men" back into the DVD player - you can make mean faces at Jack Nicholson's evil character. If you're hyperventilaiting about pinning chevrons, I'd like to get your thoughts on how 'stupid' you consider 'earning bloodstripe'. I picked up Corporal meritoriously while I was TDY at a school with a bunch of hardchargers. I earned my bloodstripe that day and had to stand duty that night - needless to say I didnt do much standing or walking that evening. ETA: Not defending the morons from 2nd Tanks at all, but what they were doing and what the OP was hysterical about are two vastly DIFFERENT things. |
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Rather than contribute to further derailing this topic ...
... And based simply on the hope that stupid acts are not juxtaposed with lofty ideals and goals by HTF readers, I'll invite attention to what honest-to-goodness "Chesty Puller" types in HQMC know and believe. I hope the Commandant doesn't "come off like a 'tard... or some kind of pogue" not that he would be interested in such opinions, one way or the other. Hazing can include, but is not limited to, the following: playing abusive or ridiculous tricks; threatening or
offering violence or bodily harm to another; striking; branding; taping; tattooing; shaving; greasing; painting; requiring excessive physical exercise beyond what is required to meet standards; "pinning"; "tacking on"; 'blood wings"; or forcing or requiring the consumption of food, alcohol, drugs, or any othersubstance. 7. Policy. is DON policy that: a. Hazing is prohibited and will not be tolerated. b. No service member in the DON may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them. c. No commander or supervisor may, by act, word, deed, or omission, condone or ignore hazing if they know or reasonably should have known, that hazing may or did occur. d. It is the responsibility of every Sailor and Marine to ensure that hazing does not occur any form at any level. Every service member has the responsibility to make the appropriate authorities aware of each violation of this policy. Read the full text of the original here, SECNAVINST 1610.2A, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY (DON) POLICY ON HAZING I presume some of y'all might be thinking, that the above excerpt is just drivel written by panty-waist, pansy-ass "pogues and 'tards" in the Navy. Let me disabuse you of that notion in advance, with another excerpt: a. Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby one military member, regardless of Service or rank, causes
another military member, regardless of Service or rank, to suffer or be exposed to an activity which is cruel, abusive, humiliating, or oppressive. Hazing includes, but is not limited to, any form of initiation or congratulatory act that involves physically striking another to inflict pain, piercing another’s skin in any manner, verbally berating another, encouraging another to excessively consume alcohol, or encouraging another to engage in illegal, harmful, demeaning or dangerous acts. Soliciting or coercing another to participate in any such activity is also considered hazing. Hazing need not involve physical contact among or between military members; it can be verbal or psychological in nature. b. Hazing does not include mission or operational activities; the requisite training to prepare for such missions or operations; administrative corrective measures; extra military instruction as defined in the reference; command authorized physical training; authorized incentive training permitted at the Marine Corps Recruit Depots; and other similar activities authorized by the chain of command. 4. Policy. Hazing is prohibited. No Marine, or service member attached to a Marine command, including Marine detachments, may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them. No one in a supervisory position may, by act, word, or omission, condone or ignore hazing if he or she knows or reasonably should have known that hazing may occur. Consent to hazing is not a defense to violating this Order. Any violation, attempted violation, or solicitation of another to violate this order, subjects involved members to disciplinary action under Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). This Order does not prevent charging those who have engaged in acts of hazing under other applicable UCMJ articles to include, but not limited to Article 80 (attempts), Article 81 (conspiracy), Article 93 (cruelty and maltreatment), Article 124 (maiming), Article 128 (assault), Article 133 (conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman) and Article 134 (indecent assault, drunk and disorderly conduct, and/or solicitation). This Order is a lawful general order and is effective immediately without further implementation. Read the full text of the original here, MARINE CORPS ORDER 1700.28, HAZING, which also belies the canard that this is somehow "tradition." The defense of assaults like 'pinning on rank' and 'getting blood stripes pounded in,' is every bit as appropriate as those football players at Mepham High School defending their own actions, which a New York Grand Jury summarized as: he evidence included credible evidence that certain upperclassmen from the Mcpham High School, Long Island, New York, football team assaulted some of the younger members of the team. The entire team of 68 students was attending a football camp at Camp Wayne for Girls in Wayne County at that time. The team was chaperoned by five adult coaches. [...] The three perpetrators started their activities the first night of the camp by taping one of the young victims to his bed. They then required him to go to the adjoining cabin and put powder and gel in the hair of another underclassman. The next day two of the perpetrators hold down one another of the victims across his bed while the third assaulted him by sticking a broomstick coated with Mineral ice in his anus. This activity was conducted in front of other players who laughed and joked about it.
The assault by broomstick coated with Mineral Ice was repeated the next day on the same victim, but only after the 16 and 17 year old perpetrators had applied duct tape to the victim's legs, eyebrows, butt and pubic area and pulled it off slowly causing a great deal of pain. All of these actions were again witnessed by other players. The older players laughed but the younger players did not. Three different younger players were assaulted by having foreign objects inserted into their anuses by these young men. The objects which were used in the assaults were broomsticks and pine cones coated with Mineral Ice and in one instance a golf ball was inserted and then pushed in further using the broomstick as a ramming instrument. Two of the players endured these assaults more than once and were forced to actually commit the assaults on each other in front of others by the bullying of the older players. These two players were assaulted to various degrees daily starting on the second day of camp. The two underclassmen were made to suffer further pain and humiliation by the perpetrators throughout the week at camp. One day they were forced to put Mineral Ice on their testicles and then alternately kicking each other in that sensitive area of the anatomy. After the one underclassman had removed the golf ball from his rear, the other young player was required to put it in his mouth and was not told where it had been until after he had complied. The bullies then made him take the first underclassman's toothbrush and stick it in his anus. When the first underclassman returned to the room after cleaning himself from golf ball assault, he was made to brush his teeth using the toothbrush. [...] The Grand Jury is convinced based upon the evidence before it that if two of the victims had not required medical treatment for the injuries they sustained at camp within a few days after returning home, these crimes would not have been reported. Accordingly, the Grand Jury is also convinced that the coaches had no knowledge of there crimes and other activities until after the team had returned to New York and the victims sought medical attention. The original text can be read in its entirety, at this link. To me, those engaging in hazing –– whether high school ass-wipes or idiotic Devil Dog wanna-bes –– are "'tards," whether or not they're pogues. I suspect the Commandant of the Marine Corps shares my point of view. Further, I suspect that the Commandant will let the Corps know his beliefs in short order. BTW. While my service is long since past, I was neither a pogue or a REMF. ETA a link to the Mepham article, and some minor changes. |
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Quoted:
Rather than contribute to further derailing this topic ... ... And based simply on the hope that stupid acts are not juxtaposed with lofty ideals and goals by HTF readers, I'll invite attention to what honest-to-goodness "Chesty Puller" types in HQMC know and believe. I hope the Commandant doesn't "come off like a 'tard... or some kind of pogue" not that he would be interested in such opinions, one way or the other. Hazing can include, but is not limited to, the following: playing abusive or ridiculous tricks; threatening or
offering violence or bodily harm to another; striking; branding; taping; tattooing; shaving; greasing; painting; requiring excessive physical exercise beyond what is required to meet standards; "pinning"; "tacking on"; 'blood wings"; or forcing or requiring the consumption of food, alcohol, drugs, or any othersubstance. 7. Policy. is DON policy that: a. Hazing is prohibited and will not be tolerated. b. No service member in the DON may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them. c. No commander or supervisor may, by act, word, deed, or omission, condone or ignore hazing if they know or reasonably should have known, that hazing may or did occur. d. It is the responsibility of every Sailor and Marine to ensure that hazing does not occur any form at any level. Every service member has the responsibility to make the appropriate authorities aware of each violation of this policy. Read the full text of the original here, SECNAVINST 1610.2A, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY (DON) POLICY ON HAZING I presume some of y'all might be thinking, that the above excerpt is just drivel written by panty-waist, pansy-ass "pogues and 'tards" in the Navy. Let me disabuse you of that notion in advance, with another excerpt: a. Hazing is defined as any conduct whereby one military member, regardless of Service or rank, causes
another military member, regardless of Service or rank, to suffer or be exposed to an activity which is cruel, abusive, humiliating, or oppressive. Hazing includes, but is not limited to, any form of initiation or congratulatory act that involves physically striking another to inflict pain, piercing another’s skin in any manner, verbally berating another, encouraging another to excessively consume alcohol, or encouraging another to engage in illegal, harmful, demeaning or dangerous acts. Soliciting or coercing another to participate in any such activity is also considered hazing. Hazing need not involve physical contact among or between military members; it can be verbal or psychological in nature. b. Hazing does not include mission or operational activities; the requisite training to prepare for such missions or operations; administrative corrective measures; extra military instruction as defined in the reference; command authorized physical training; authorized incentive training permitted at the Marine Corps Recruit Depots; and other similar activities authorized by the chain of command. 4. Policy. Hazing is prohibited. No Marine, or service member attached to a Marine command, including Marine detachments, may engage in hazing or consent to acts of hazing being committed upon them. No one in a supervisory position may, by act, word, or omission, condone or ignore hazing if he or she knows or reasonably should have known that hazing may occur. Consent to hazing is not a defense to violating this Order. Any violation, attempted violation, or solicitation of another to violate this order, subjects involved members to disciplinary action under Article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). This Order does not prevent charging those who have engaged in acts of hazing under other applicable UCMJ articles to include, but not limited to Article 80 (attempts), Article 81 (conspiracy), Article 93 (cruelty and maltreatment), Article 124 (maiming), Article 128 (assault), Article 133 (conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman) and Article 134 (indecent assault, drunk and disorderly conduct, and/or solicitation). This Order is a lawful general order and is effective immediately without further implementation. Read the full text of the original here, MARINE CORPS ORDER 1700.28, HAZING, which also belies the canard that this is somehow "tradition." The defense of assaults like 'pinning on rank' and 'getting blood stripes pounded in,' is every bit as appropriate as those football players at Mepham High School defending their own actions, which a New York Grand Jury summarized as: he evidence included credible evidence that certain upperclassmen from the Mcpham High School, Long Island, New York, football team assaulted some of the younger members of the team. The entire team of 68 students was attending a football camp at Camp Wayne for Girls in Wayne County at that time. The team was chaperoned by five adult coaches. [...] The three perpetrators started their activities the first night of the camp by taping one of the young victims to his bed. They then required him to go to the adjoining cabin and put powder and gel in the hair of another underclassman. The next day two of the perpetrators hold down one another of the victims across his bed while the third assaulted him by sticking a broomstick coated with Mineral ice in his anus. This activity was conducted in front of other players who laughed and joked about it.
The assault by broomstick coated with Mineral Ice was repeated the next day on the same victim, but only after the 16 and 17 year old perpetrators had applied duct tape to the victim's legs, eyebrows, butt and pubic area and pulled it off slowly causing a great deal of pain. All of these actions were again witnessed by other players. The older players laughed but the younger players did not. Three different younger players were assaulted by having foreign objects inserted into their anuses by these young men. The objects which were used in the assaults were broomsticks and pine cones coated with Mineral Ice and in one instance a golf ball was inserted and then pushed in further using the broomstick as a ramming instrument. Two of the players endured these assaults more than once and were forced to actually commit the assaults on each other in front of others by the bullying of the older players. These two players were assaulted to various degrees daily starting on the second day of camp. The two underclassmen were made to suffer further pain and humiliation by the perpetrators throughout the week at camp. One day they were forced to put Mineral Ice on their testicles and then alternately kicking each other in that sensitive area of the anatomy. After the one underclassman had removed the golf ball from his rear, the other young player was required to put it in his mouth and was not told where it had been until after he had complied. The bullies then made him take the first underclassman's toothbrush and stick it in his anus. When the first underclassman returned to the room after cleaning himself from golf ball assault, he was made to brush his teeth using the toothbrush. [...] The Grand Jury is convinced based upon the evidence before it that if two of the victims had not required medical treatment for the injuries they sustained at camp within a few days after returning home, these crimes would not have been reported. Accordingly, the Grand Jury is also convinced that the coaches had no knowledge of there crimes and other activities until after the team had returned to New York and the victims sought medical attention. The original text can be read in its entirety, at this link. To me, those engaging in hazing –– whether high school ass-wipes or idiotic Devil Dog wanna-bes –– are "'tards," whether or not they're pogues. I suspect the Commandant of the Marine Corps shares my point of view. Further, I suspect that the Commandant will let the Corps know his beliefs in short order. BTW. While my service is long since past, I was neither a pogue or a REMF. ETA a link to the Mepham article, and some minor changes.  First, I think it says alot about you that you came back quoting SECNAVINSTs and regurgitating the official definition of hazing. The Marine Corps is an elite fighting force, steeped in tradition and history. Some of that tradition is not politically correct, yet its vital for maintaining Espirit de Corps and a certain attitude. While the Commandant may have had to take a political stance on 'hazing' to satisfy his masters in Washington, most Marines understand the difference between complying with the 'spirit of the law' and the 'letter of the law'. As such most Marines would laugh in your face if you told them that getting 'pinned' is considered hazing. Furthermore, most Marines, certainly Infantry Marines wouldnt want a pussy like that in their unit.
Second, no matter how you twist the facts to suit your misguided argument you cannot compare pinning rank or getting bloodstripes to football players shoving things up their assess or idiots folling around with live ammo and pistols. They are not the same thing and its intellectually dishonest to try to paint them as such. Lastly, if you are such a stickler for rules and regulations as evidenced by your quotation of the SECNAVINST, I would assume you would be in favor of charging servicemen with violations of Article 125 of the UCMJ, which states: Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete the offense unnatural carnal copulation defined as: for a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the sexual organ of another person So are you now going to charge your Marines for getting blow jobs out in town? No??? Why not??? |
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i would never have stood for pointing a weapon at anyone that didn't deserve it. that's one of those "if i see you do it i'll break as many of your bones as i can before we go see anyone else". i don't mind standing tall for un-fucking stupid.
the Marines that participated in this should be ashamed of themselves for they have not only KILLED an innocent Marine but they have dishonored themselves and the Marine Corps. any punishment they get will not be enough! the victim in this incident was just as much as fault as the shooter. stupid begot more stupid  . i hope the families of these Marines can find peace.
not to take away from the seriousness of the original post but......... now as to the "pinning" and "blood stripes" issue. WTF?!! i've never understood the pantywaist fuck-tards that have an issue with this. you're telling me that the toughest fighting force in the world can't take the back of a chevron 1/4" into the skin? or that a few knocks to the leg is too much for guys that spend countless hours in MMA style training? i've had my ass kicked harder by a black belt instructor than i did when i picked up NCO. i had a limp for a week after a fight. my blood stripe was sore but i could walk just fine. and pinning...... if you don't want to participate then be a 'lil bitch and put the backs on your chevrons. don't run around crying about it like some 5th grade tattle tale. it's not like we're making you hucklebuck Rosie O'fucking Donnell or shove a rattle snake up your ass. i did stand tall for "allegedly" witnessing some hazing. as it turns out i never saw what my Sgt was accused of doing to my new Cpl when we returned to the BEQ. some people should just mind their own business and not report things that they thought they saw. shit bird fucking pogue! if you can't prove it then it didn't happen, no victim = no crime. we were not engaged in any of these...... (taken from above) ......to suffer or be exposed to an activity which is cruel,
abusive, humiliating, or oppressive....... pinning and the blood stripe do not fit into this definition. so if that would have been what was going on then we should have been ok but some cock-smoke couldn't mind his own business and thought that he saw things that just didn't happen. all this talk of old times has made me thirsty for an Irish Car Bomb. anyone else? |
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The Marine Corps is an elite fighting force, steeped in tradition and history. Some of that tradition is not politically correct, yet its vital for maintaining Espirit de Corps and a certain attitude. I am certain enough to bet a nickel –– cold, hard cash money –– that Cpl. Mathew Nelson felt the same way you did ... before he killed a Brother, that is. Presuming you're a Marine, your Corps addresses this sentiment in MCO 1700.28, linked above. Your Corps underlined one of the sentiments, presumably to reinforce its importance. "Unfortunately, some in our ranks confuse hazing with the tradition of certain military ceremonies
and develop initiations or "rites of passage" they believe promote loyalty. They do not. The imaginary ethos resulting from hazing eventually is paid for by unfortunates like Lance Cpl. Patrick Malone. The undeniable fact is that hazing escalates. Against the backdrop you find so ideal, Squaddies are pointing guns at each other, and sometimes pulling the trigger. Your determination that MCO 1700.28 resulted from then Commandant C.C. Krulak having to politically kowtow in an effort "to satisfy his masters in Washington" is an interesting perspective. I believe you do him a disservice. Your Corps, and the U.S. Navy, apparently see a link between the 'harmless' pinning on of rank, and an eventual tragedy. Your choice to not honor the dictates of your Corps, for whatever reason, is your call. I wonder what other General Orders you've chosen to reject, however, based on your belief at their validity. You'll get the last word on this topic, if you desire. I'm overcome with disgust thinking of how needless it was for CPL Nelson to kill LCPL Malone .... all the more so because CPL Nelson rationalized and justified the stupid act as an attempt to contribute to "Espirit de Corps and a certain attitude." Yeah I know. CPL Nelson didn't mean to kill LCPL Malone. That's scant solace to the families on both sides of this tragedy. And our Nation was needlessly robbed of a Marine. I believe Commandant Conway feels anger, as well, over this loss. Further I believe his response to the loss of LCPL Malone will not be political kowtowing. Respond he will. Of this I'm sure. |
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The use of the phrase "A noncommissioned officer" makes it sound like this was more than a handful of NCOs. Where's the officer leadership here as well?
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I'll invite attention to what honest-to-goodness "Chesty Puller" types in HQMC know and believe. I hope the Commandant doesn't "come off like a 'tard... or some kind of pogue" not that he would be interested in such opinions, one way or the other. My grandfather served with then Col. Puller. And by served I mean "was debriefed by him at his CP on more than one occasion during the push from Inchon to the Reservoir." I'm interviewing him in the next couple of weeks so I'll see what he thinks of this issue of pins and blood stripes. He got out as a SSgt. For reference, he's already told me the stories about beating the shit out of fellow recruits who were slacking off. Didn't seem to mind it that much. |
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Quoted:
The Marine Corps is an elite fighting force, steeped in tradition and history. Some of that tradition is not politically correct, yet its vital for maintaining Espirit de Corps and a certain attitude. I am certain enough to bet a nickel –– cold, hard cash money –– that Cpl. Mathew Nelson felt the same way you did ... before he killed a Brother, that is. Whatever retarded "game" Cpl. Nelson and his fellow Marines were playing was in no way along the same lines as the traditions that we're defending. I still can't understand how you're paralleling rank pinning and bloodstripes with shooting each other in the face. That wasn't Esprit de Corps those Marines were exhibiting, that wasn't some time honored tradition or ceremony; someone there had cooked up that retarded game to satisfy something sick deep within their minds and things unfortunately went too far before someone could speak out about it. The way you talk of our traditions and how "terrible" they are is the same way anti-gun lobbyists talk about banning guns. It's the same mentality; you don't understand it, you have no first hand experience, you seem scared of it for whatever reason, and it might hurt someone, so it must be bad, right? Yes, this was an unfortunate event that should have never happened, but the other matters that we're disagreeing about aren't relevant here. |
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I'm just a piss-ant ex-Army guy and when I completed Air Assault school we ALL got our "blood wings" where the pins on our AA pin were driven into our chest. It's something you EARN and you're proud to have that instructor drive those pins home. To me it symbolizes that the skills and the camaraderie gained during that training is now a part of you forever. These sorts of things make for proud, brave soldiers who fight to the death for each other.
Now regarding the trust exercise, I can't condone it simply because it's a violation of all 4 of the cardinal rules, and there are better ways to build trust than to put a gun to your subordinate's head and pull the trigger, hoping that the magazine was far enough down the well not to allow a round to be chambered. That's just dumb. Imagine the horror in the seconds following the trigger pull and knowing that you can never un-pull it. I think that would drive me over the edge. |
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And our Nation was needlessly robbed of a Marine. I believe Commandant Conway feels anger, as well, over this loss. Further I believe his response to the loss of LCPL Malone will not be political kowtowing. Respond he will. Of this I'm sure. Some of the other guys who replied to you stated pretty much the points I was trying to get across. But one thing that frustrates me is that you keep trying to draw a correlation between the sheerly idiotic actions of the Marines from 2nd Tanks and a time honored tradition that no one aside from a few politicians and officers that havent been to the field in decades think is improper. Understand that NOT A SINGLE person in this thread is defending the actions of Cpl. Nelson and the rest of the guys in his platoon. Any NCO, or for that matter, any Marine regardless of rank should have kicked the shit out of him or anyone else pointing a weapon with live ammo at another Marine. However, there is in no way, shape, or form a comparison between what Nelson did and getting your chevrons pinned. Yet, you keep trying to make that correlation. |
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And our Nation was needlessly robbed of a Marine. I believe Commandant Conway feels anger, as well, over this loss. Further I believe his response to the loss of LCPL Malone will not be political kowtowing. Respond he will. Of this I'm sure. Some of the other guys who replied to you stated pretty much the points I was trying to get across. But one thing that frustrates me is that you keep trying to draw a correlation between the sheerly idiotic actions of the Marines from 2nd Tanks and a time honored tradition that no one aside from a few politicians and officers that havent been to the field in decades think is improper. Understand that NOT A SINGLE person in this thread is defending the actions of Cpl. Nelson and the rest of the guys in his platoon. Any NCO, or for that matter, any Marine regardless of rank should have kicked the shit out of him or anyone else pointing a weapon with live ammo at another Marine. However, there is in no way, shape, or form a comparison between what Nelson did and getting your chevrons pinned. Yet, you keep trying to make that correlation. Well said. This was an incredibly mis-guided attempt to build unit cohesion. If you're "playing the game", you do so believing that there is only possible action for the guy with the gun to take, and that is that he isn't actually going to chamber a round and kill you with it. If you believed that he might choose a different option, you wouldn't be playing. It's not a trust thing at all because there is only one possible purposeful action that won't result in tragedy and anything else would be an accident and outside the intentions of the game. In the traditional trust game (fall back, I catch you), the catcher could opt to be an ass and let the faller fall. Other than a sore butt and maybe a bruise on the back of your head, nothing harmful comes of it. The Marine's game was totally different and they just didn't get it. That said, this has nothing to do with the ritual of pinning rank/badge/whatever to someones chest when it is hard fought for and earned. If that doesn't make sense, then it's probably best to leave the conversation because you're lacking some fundamental understanding of the environment in which these soldiers live. |