Posted: 12/18/2008 2:27:39 PM EDT
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I live in Arlington, VA.
The other day my dad was out walking our dogs through some secluded side streets in the county. He said a large grey fox appeared and started following him down the street. This was in broad daylight. Our dogs are both under 20 lbs and useless for defense. And he described the fox as being much larger than both dogs 20+ lbs. Thankfully after a block or so the fox decided to move on and left him alone. But it got me wondering... if the fox had attacked, would this be a justified situation to use your ccw? Or would you be better off fighting it off with your bare hands. Before I express my opinion, what do you guys think? Would you shoot if it meant saving your dogs life? Also my dad isn't the biggest nature person, so he could have been describing a coyote. As all the foxes I've seen have been small and red in this area. |
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This a rebuttal to 05LOWRIDER's suggestion: Arlington County? somebody is always around, not reporting the discharge of a firearm in a high population density area is a good way to get collared when the suspect description goes out. If You were in imminent fear of serious personal injury or death and defended yourself and your animals as a secondary matter against an obviously aggressive animal you're good to go. Electing to Escape and evade is a pricey proposition when you did nothing wrong. Great way to get your CCW yanked too. |
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Quoted:
I live in Arlington, VA. The other day my dad was out walking our dogs through some secluded side streets in the county. He said a large grey fox appeared and started following him down the street. This was in broad daylight. Our dogs are both under 20 lbs and useless for defense. And he described the fox as being much larger than both dogs 20+ lbs. Thankfully after a block or so the fox decided to move on and left him alone. But it got me wondering... if the fox had attacked, would this be a justified situation to use your ccw? Or would you be better off fighting it off with your bare hands. Before I express my opinion, what do you guys think? Would you shoot if it meant saving your dogs life? Also my dad isn't the biggest nature person, so he could have been describing a coyote. As all the foxes I've seen have been small and red in this area. The litmus test for deployment and operation of a firearm for LAWFUL defense purposes is you having the serious fear of death and/or grievous bodily injury. Anytime you pull said firearm, regardless if it is fired or not in a self defense situation with either a 4 legged or 2 legged predator, you should INSTANTLY report it once the situation has ended and you are in a safe(er) area. You want to be the first on the phone with the po-po, before Ethel the nosey neighbor calls and begins her wild stories, and you definitely want to be the first on the phone with po-po if you use pull your sidearm on somebody threatening you. The decision to report IN DETAIL to po-po of what happened is one you must consider carefully. In the event of a rabid fox or off-lease pitbull attacking; you should mostly be in the clear in giving your account of details. If used against an attacker; all you should tell po-po is that you felt your life was in immediate danger and/or you were about to be attacked to the point of grievous bodily injury and you pulled and/or used your firearm to stop and control the situation. |
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Quoted:
Anytime you pull said firearm, regardless if it is fired or not in a self defense situation with either a 4 legged or 2 legged predator, you should INSTANTLY report it once the situation has ended and you are in a safe(er) area. You want to be the first on the phone with the po-po, before Ethel the nosey neighbor calls and begins her wild stories, and you definitely want to be the first on the phone with po-po if you use pull your sidearm on somebody threatening you. Exactly. I hope that most of the stories I read about folks pulling their guns to just 'scare away' a bad guy, and then go home like nothing happen are fiction. This is NOT a smart thing to do. |
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Yankee - my answer was not a suggestion. It was a "what would I do".
Since I wasn't asking for advice, no need to criticize what I said. But, as I said, IF nobody was around. If that were the case, there would be no suspect discription. I don't live in Arlington, nor would I. I live in a much more rural setting and if I shot a crazed animal I doubt there would be much of a hassle. Quoted:
This a rebuttal to 05LOWRIDER's suggestion: Arlington County? somebody is always around, not reporting the discharge of a firearm in a high population density area is a good way to get collared when the suspect description goes out. If You were in imminent fear of serious personal injury or death and defended yourself and your animals as a secondary matter against an obviously aggressive animal you're good to go. Electing to Escape and evade is a pricey proposition when you did nothing wrong. Great way to get your CCW yanked too. |
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Yankee - my answer was not a suggestion. It was a "what would I do". Since I wasn't asking for advice, no need to criticize what I said. But, as I said, IF nobody was around. If that were the case, there would be no suspect discription. I don't live in Arlington, nor would I. I live in a much more rural setting and if I shot a crazed animal I doubt there would be much of a hassle. Quoted:
This a rebuttal to 05LOWRIDER's suggestion: Arlington County? somebody is always around, not reporting the discharge of a firearm in a high population density area is a good way to get collared when the suspect description goes out. If You were in imminent fear of serious personal injury or death and defended yourself and your animals as a secondary matter against an obviously aggressive animal you're good to go. Electing to Escape and evade is a pricey proposition when you did nothing wrong. Great way to get your CCW yanked too. I would have shot it, pissed on it, and brought to the nearest police station. Where I would’ve doused it in gasoline, walked up to the door of the police station, propped the door open with my shoulder. Lit the fox on fire and threw it into the police station, while yelling here’s your f***ing fox back!!!!!  
But that’s just what I would’ve done! 
But seriously, I wouldn’t pull my gun or discharge it without calling the police immediately afterwards. If I didn’t do anything wrong then I’ve got nothing to worry about. Caveat: If I was walking in the woods on my property with my kids or dog and any animal threatened them or me. I would shoot it and if it was a tasty animal I would cook it up if not it’s going in the ground, no fuss no muss. But I live in a rural area too.
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Yes, you would be justified to shoot an attacking wild animal.
Even if somebody is walking their pit bull with their child, and the pit bull breaks away from the owner and charges at you, if you are convinced it is out to do harm to you or even your own dog, you are justified to shoot it. Just sayin'... |
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If after examining the situation, and if under attack, I would have shot the fox/coyote/rabid dog and after shooting it, nobody saw me - I would have kept walking. If someone saw me, then i would have then called the police and let them know of my actions. This is most likely what I would have done! |
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I would have shot it, pissed on it, and brought to the nearest police station. Where I would’ve doused it in gasoline, walked up to the door of the police station, propped the door open with my shoulder. Lit the fox on fire and threw it into the police station, while yelling here’s your f***ing fox back!!!!!
But that’s just what I would’ve done!
But seriously, I wouldn’t pull my gun or discharge it without calling the police immediately afterwards. If I didn’t do anything wrong then I’ve got nothing to worry about. Caveat: If I was walking in the woods on my property with my kids or dog and any animal threatened them or me. I would shoot it and if it was a tasty animal I would cook it up if not it’s going in the ground, no fuss no muss. But I live in a rural area too.
Pure comedy, loved that response. One other thing, my wife is a Vet and I read her this story. She said that since a Silver Fox, Red fox, wolf, coyote are nocturnal or at least corpuscular ....you shouldn't see they in the middle of the day walking down the street. If they are moving during the day it might be due to being disturbed from their normal den or alternate den. Even then they should be moving to another location of cover quickly and mostly trying to stay concealed. Two possible bad things about this story are that the offending wild animal was very hungry or sick or both. They would normally target easy prey and although they might stalk, they would do it from a more concealed vantage point if possible. If the animal had been injured and was bed down and hadn't eaten in a day or two or more, they would take a less easy target depending on how hungry. If they were rabid they wouldn't care about day or night or cover and would hunt and kill to eat regardless of the danger to themselves. Sorry to ramble, in short, that animal was not right, don't give me any crap about how humans encroach on their habitat. Never trust an animal you see during the day that should only be cruising for food at night. Avoid them and protect your family, shoot to kill in a vital organ such as a heart lung shot, not the head as you would want to offer it up to the local health department testing for rabies. As for taking action, If I could avoid this kind of animal, I would. Keep your distance, 20 feet is too close. Rabies is a public health problem and a known threat to all animals and people, you would be doing the world a favor by trapping or killing it. Still I would avoid it and protect the family. Raccoon and opossum are also nocturnal and shouldn't be interacted with even at a Halloween party. Still kinda tasty.javascript:insertText('  ');
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Quoted:
If after examining the situation, and if under attack, I would have shot the fox/coyote/rabid dog and after shooting it, nobody saw me - I would have kept walking. If someone saw me, then i would have then called the police and let them know of my actions. Poor decision That kind of behavior out of any animal is not normal. He would have been justified by his actions given the situation if after he shot the fox he called the police and said he shot what he suspected to be a rabid animal. Rabid animals on the loose are not safe to be allowed to roam freely +Nick |
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Being the first to call the police is not only a good idea, its also the one that is least likely to land you in hot water. We all know that, right?
Now, since the animal did not attack this time, what did you do? There is a likely rabid fox roaming the area. I would argue that you should absolutely call the authorities. You didn't have to draw this time, but you might the next. If you can show a pattern of being a good civic minded individual, you're future interactions with the law will likely be better. You will not be the guy who shoots early and often, but rather the guy who has some experience with NOT shooting, but also being responsible enough to notify authorities. You'll be on record as being a good citizen. |