Posted: 10/31/2006 9:47:09 AM EDT
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Does anyone know if any shop/person has any pistol marked lowers in-stock in the NOVA area? Thinking about starting a new .223 build. Thanks, Wolfpak |
| Here's a thread from a guy in Prince William Co. who has stripped lowers for sale: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=383107 |
One more question. If i buy from a person who is not a dealer, how do know if its recorded as a pistol lower or how do I get it done once i buy it from a non-dealer? Hope this makes sense. |
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You would have to get one of the Dealer type people in this thread to get an absolute answer. I think that some manufacturers log stripped lowers in as rifles. I know that RRA marks all pistol lowers as such on the right side of the magwell. I would think if the manufacturer logs it as a rifle, it is a rifle reguardless of what your dealer puts down on his paper. This appears to be a pretty slippery slope and I am not wearing traction enhancing shoes. I would PM either TheBomber or Steve at HSA to get a good answer. |
| tough question on th3 4473 if its a rifle or pistol. I think that if you go to Virginia arms to get one from them itll go down as a pistol, but if you order a bunch of superior arms unmarked lwoers they will be transfered as rifles.... I'm 99% sure they can still be assembled into pistols as they ahve never been assmelbed into a rifle nor were they manufactured intended to be a rifle.... just transfered as one??? any lawyers here? |
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I can't find anything in the regs that prohibits any AR lower or other firearms receiver to be legally assembled into a pistol or rifle regardless of what the 4473 says. I believe it to be legal to build it into either and go back and forth whenever you want. Just have a buttstock on the lower when a 16" and over barrel are on it and no stock on it when a shorter barrel is used (I would use a receiver extension/buffer tube that cannot accept a stock when using a under 16" barrel). People do this with Thompson Contenders all the time, going back and forth between a pistol and rifle. If I'm wrong point me to the reg that says it's illegal. |
However, I can see the legal problem that may occur if you were somehow visited by the police and you have a upper under 16" floating around and no designated lower for it........Stupid laws......... |
I bought a pistol lower just for that reason, so I could have the 11.5" upper I am using for a SBR before the paperwork was down. I put the pistol's s/n on the paperwork and all I have to do is swap out the buffer tube once it's done. I have to check but I think the T/C's are a special case and for AR's once a buttstock is on there it can never be a pistol again. That said I don't know how they could determine that unless they caught you 
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I think the T/C sales system is to sell them as stipped pistols. I have only ever seen the Encore built up as a muzzleloader in complete form for sale. I think the same goes here. I am a little bummed that one of the HTF dealers hasn't given some industry insight. |
i think they (other dealers) would give more attention to this in another section but I wanted to keep this here for the virginia dealers/group to discuss since were talking about purchasing pistol lowers locally. Someone might come along and dispell all the wonders soon. |
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once a lower is built into a rifle ro if a manufacturer ONLY builds rifle lwoers, then that lower is a rifle lower. technically it doesn't matter what's printed on it or how its transfered. RRA pistol marked lowers actually helped us cause that means that not all of RRA's lower production is for rifles, making all of them fair game for pistols. UNLESS they amrk them 'rifle only' which would show the intent to make them into rifles at time of manufacture... you get the idea. |
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So, If you buy a stripped lower from a person thats not marked "rifle" you can make it into pistol without filling out any type of paper work? If you buy a stripped lower from a dealer thats not marked "rifle" the dealer will fill out on a form "pistol" if thats what you want it as? Or no matter what, if you buy a lower that does not state rifle on it (from anybody) then theres nothing to do. Make your pistol and be happy? |
a) once a lower has been assembled into a rifle you cannot make it into a pistol. b) a lower that was manufactured to be built into a rifle cannot be made into a pistol (e.g. RRA before they started making pistols, ONLY made rifles, and we were not allowed to buy anRRA stripped lower and build it into a pistol.) c) due to teh thompson contender a, pistol lower can be built into a rifle (I'm VERY unclear whether you can then build it back into a pistol - you certainly can build a thomson contender back and forth and can do the same with 1911's and their 16 inch barrels and shoulder stocks... however, I'm not the kinda guy who'll just 'go with my gut' when I don't know something for sure, and openly admit I DO NOT KNOW this aspect of AR lower law!) What I do know is that you cannot build a rifle lower into a pistol... d) a lower marked pistol technically means nothing. it's a lower that can be built into either pistol or rifle, since it was a lower manufactured not SPEICIFCALLY to be rifle. That doesn't mean it can't be built into a rifle. BUT if they were to mark lowers 'rifle only' then that would show the manufacturers intent that the lower was created to build into a rifle. since no one marks their lowers rifle only, the markings themselves are irrelevant. what matters is if the lower manufacturer offers pistol lowers. If htey do, then not all of thei rlowers are rifle only, and any of them (not marked rifel only) can be made into pistols. e) a DEALER/FFL will only transfer it to you or sell it to you AS A HANDGUN if it is marked pistol only. Or, if you tell him it's for a pistol I'm sure all dealer-ffls will transfer as a pistoll. This is why its best to get unmarked lowers. you can transfer them as rifles (this DOES NOT change it into a rifle) and then do as you wish. DISCLAIMER - I've never intentionally transfered a lower that I intended to build into a pistol as a rifle. I've gotten a RRA pistol lower transfered as a pistol, and I've also gotten a few stripped lowers transfered, one of which I later decided to build into a rifle. In fact, I'm gonna email bernie about this and see what the FFL has to say about this.... |
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I transferred all my AR15 stripped DPMS lowers (10X) as a stripped receivers, not designated as a pistol or a rifle. As long as it has never had a buttstock on it and it left the factory as a stripped receiver you can built it into a pistol, like MG's once a MG, always a MG, the same goes for rifle receivers, the second it has the buttstock installed it becomes a rifle forever. Also have to take into consideration the upper swapping ability and be sure that pistol lower is built up(unless you have a registered SBR)if you have a regular AR15/M4Gery, you'd hate for them to try to get you for an unregistered SBR, or 'constructive intent'.......are they likely to come after you???? NO, but CYA. AR pistols are fun, until you go the SBR route, then they are boring compared to the SBR. |
I think that's more urban myth than truth. It's what I thought too, but Bernie brought up an interesting point. TC's can go from pistol to rifle to pistol, no problem. no one is saying that a lowr that came with a rifle, that was manufactured to be built into a rifle or marked rifle only can be made into a pistol, but I'd like to see the actual law that says a pistol lower cannot be switched back and forth... (The following statement might have come from the proprietor of our favorite gun store. As it was not on 'official letterhead' and as he is not a lawyer, you should take this as something I am posting and not law)
note that, like me, this statement from Ernie-Bay, deals with converting pistol configs to rifle and back. no one is considering rifle to pistol and back. |