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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:24:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:06:30 PM EDT by RockHard13F]
So I have been pretty stoked to meet those of you I have yet to meet, and see again those I have already met, but now I find myself in an interesting situation. The other day I almost put up a post saying I couldn't go, because my coach got me into a track meet that weekend (the 1st) at Liberty University. I didn't say anything because something told me to wait. Then yesterday my coach out of the blue told me if I didn't go to his church, for 3 hours every sunday the rest of the year, then the week following each sunday I missed, I would not be allowed to compete. That seems really screwed up to me, and I am looking into what can be done about it. On the one hand I want to say, "Fine, no more races this year." and go to Hite Hollow. On the other hand, if I can get the Athletic Deparment to law down the law on him, I want to go race in the meet anyways now just to stick it to the coach since I will not go to his church one way or the other. I am not malicious towards his religion, I just have absolutely no desire to be involved in anyones church, and if I did, I would practice Judaism like my family. What say you? Race? Shoot?

-Ben

UPDATE: I am going to hite hollow. One of my good friends just got booted from the team by the same coach who I have been having problems with. Thing is, the guy who booted him is not his coach, as he is a sprinter. He also did not consult the sprints coach before booting him. I now have more ammunition for my cannon (no pun intended) and the same time we will be shooting at Hite Hollow, the coach will NOT be attending a track meet because of word come down from the athletic department. In addition, I am sitting this meet out on my own accord to show that you cannot just trash one of your two top runners (I usually score about 1/4 to 1/3 of the entire teams points made in running events). Hopefully this will help me two fold: 1) it will show that I am indeed worth more then they are giving me for a scholarship if I am going to put up with this garbage, and 2) the coach will be put in his place. Oh, and rejoice, my M1A came back from Springfield and I fired 140 rounds last weekend without a malfunction!



-Ben
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:00:25 PM EDT
I'd get a lawyer, he's got no right to REQUIRE you to go to any church or PUNISH you for not doing so. As for shoot? or track? thats your call, but I look forward to meeting you at HH
Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:54:41 AM EDT
I would go shooting myself, but that is your call.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 3:18:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:21:54 AM EDT
Why not roll the problem into the solution and shoot the coach?

Out of curiousity, is this a public school?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:02:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 10:10:50 AM EDT by astrafire]
Here what you do.

First, tell the coach to put it all in writing so that there is no misunderstandings later and then both you and the coach sign the deal. If he refuses just tell him it is obvious he is not really committed to his church. If he still refuses, say that he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

After he signs, give a copy of the signed deal to the University president

Then, ask the president if skipping a meet just one time to go shooting violates the spirit of the deal.

I am sure it will work out okay this way.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:31:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By astrafire:
Here what you do.

First, tell the coach to put it all in writing so that there is no misunderstandings later and then both you and the coach sign the deal. If he refuses just tell him it is obvious he is not really committed to his church. If he still refuses, say that he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

After he signs, give a copy of the signed deal to the University president

Then, ask the president if skipping a meet just one time to go shooting violates the spirit of the deal.

I am sure it will work out okay this way.



It doesn't matter, the coach should not have ANYTHING to do with what, when, or where the student worships. That's the real issue in a nutshell.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:44:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 10:45:05 AM EDT by Hydguy]
I've gotta agree with l-r-t, as much as it paines me to do so.......
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:51:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By silicon_wizzard:

Originally Posted By astrafire:
Here what you do.

First, tell the coach to put it all in writing so that there is no misunderstandings later and then both you and the coach sign the deal. If he refuses just tell him it is obvious he is not really committed to his church. If he still refuses, say that he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

After he signs, give a copy of the signed deal to the University president

Then, ask the president if skipping a meet just one time to go shooting violates the spirit of the deal.

I am sure it will work out okay this way.



It doesn't matter, the coach should not have ANYTHING to do with what, when, or where the student worships. That's the real issue in a nutshell.



You are absolutely right. However, the present situation is a holy roller abusing his authority while hiding in a his word versus my word scenario. The coach is chickenshit for even doing such a thing. However, the fact of the matter is that not a damn thing will happen to the coach unless there is proof. Rock can either go along, call the coach's bluff, develop a way of hangin the coach or quit.

The suggested course of action calls the coach's bluff and/or develops a way of hangin the coach. I did not recommend quitting and Rock already said he is not going along.

Just remember, on this site, it is best to presume every response is cloaked in sarcasm. Thats what makes this a fun site to peruse.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:56:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Then yesterday my coach out of the blue told me if I didn't go to his church, for 3 hours every sunday the rest of the year, then the week following each sunday I missed, I would not be allowed to compete. That seems really screwed up to me, and I am looking into what can be done about it.



Don't you go to that Mormon school in Buena Vista? If religion is a tenet of the school, I can see how his mandate would be required.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:04:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By astrafire:
Here what you do.

First, tell the coach to put it all in writing so that there is no misunderstandings later and then both you and the coach sign the deal. If he refuses just tell him it is obvious he is not really committed to his church. If he still refuses, say that he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

After he signs, give a copy of the signed deal to the University president

Then, ask the president if skipping a meet just one time to go shooting violates the spirit of the deal.

I am sure it will work out okay this way.



+1

screw the coach. go shooting
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 3:37:02 PM EDT
I went to non-religious schools, so I'm a little baffled about where he gets the stones to tell you when and where to go to church. Is church attendance required for everyone else on the track team or at the school in general? I know some schools have mandatory chapel, but that's like a pass/fail thing that shouldn't affect your participation in extra-curricular activities.

OK, this is the one and only religion discussion I ever get into on arfcom.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 9:00:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 9:01:39 PM EDT by RockHard13F]

Originally Posted By Subzero:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Then yesterday my coach out of the blue told me if I didn't go to his church, for 3 hours every sunday the rest of the year, then the week following each sunday I missed, I would not be allowed to compete. That seems really screwed up to me, and I am looking into what can be done about it.



Don't you go to that Mormon school in Buena Vista? If religion is a tenet of the school, I can see how his mandate would be required.



It is a school owned by a mormon (not the mormon church though) and has a lot of mormons here, but church attendance is not required for anyone. My best friend here is a Ukranian student who is agnostic, and am wishy washy as to if I would call myself agnostic (otherwise I am "the Jewish guy"). ETA talking to the athletic director and/or other coaches tomorrow, will update soon.

-Ben
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 5:37:55 PM EDT
Tell him you'll do it if you can tithe in empty .223 casings.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:26:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Tell him you'll do it if you can tithe in empty .223 casings.




Now that's a church I might attend!



I'd go the hang the coach route, and if that doesn't work then I'd go shooting.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:39:47 PM EDT
Since it is a private institution, the separation of church and state doesn't apply. The real question is, does the staff have within their power the ability to force students to attend religious services in order to participate in "extra-curricular" activity. Check with a counselor about this, and if they don't know, go to the dean (or whoever). If he is in fact overstepping his bounds, then DO NOT approach him directly about it. Request that the dean, or a counselor set up a meeting between the three of you. That way the coach knows his behavior is being monitored and he can't continue to abuse the relationship he has with you and you can comfortably decline his "demands".

If the school determines that he is within his powers, and you do in fact have to choose between church and track (and shooting), go shooting. You very obviously don't have an interest in following the teachings of the mormon church, so just save the seat for someone who does. God knows your heart, and he won't be any more or less offended if you choose not to sit in church and think "what a bunch of crap this is". You can see and be thankful for the beauty of His creation at Hite Hollow just as you can sitting in church.

My $0.02.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:07:04 PM EDT
Bumped for my update, see first post.

-Ben
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:57:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kcobean:
Since it is a private institution, the separation of church and state doesn't apply. The real question is, does the staff have within their power the ability to force students to attend religious services in order to participate in "extra-curricular" activity. Check with a counselor about this, and if they don't know, go to the dean (or whoever). If he is in fact overstepping his bounds, then DO NOT approach him directly about it. Request that the dean, or a counselor set up a meeting between the three of you. That way the coach knows his behavior is being monitored and he can't continue to abuse the relationship he has with you and you can comfortably decline his "demands".

If the school determines that he is within his powers, and you do in fact have to choose between church and track (and shooting), go shooting. You very obviously don't have an interest in following the teachings of the mormon church, so just save the seat for someone who does. God knows your heart, and he won't be any more or less offended if you choose not to sit in church and think "what a bunch of crap this is". You can see and be thankful for the beauty of His creation at Hite Hollow just as you can sitting in church.

My $0.02.



What separation of church and state?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:07:02 AM EDT
Good news, Ben!

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