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Posted: 3/10/2006 4:17:37 PM EDT
...and a norfolk sheriff walks in to get his CCW (he is a Chesapeake resident).

The clerk asks him for his proof of firearms training.

He shows his ID and badge.

She wouldn't process his request, told him to come back with a certificate of training.

?????

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:47:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
...and a norfolk sheriff walks in to get his CCW (he is a Chesapeake resident).

The clerk asks him for his proof of firearms training.

He shows his ID and badge.

She wouldn't process his request, told him to come back with a certificate of training.

?????




Good on the clerk.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:05:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
...and a norfolk sheriff walks in to get his CCW (he is a Chesapeake resident).

The clerk asks him for his proof of firearms training.

He shows his ID and badge.

She wouldn't process his request, told him to come back with a certificate of training.

?????




Good on the clerk.



I have to say, that wasn't my first thought...

I don't believe the state dictates the type of "training" required for a CHP, infact I believe it is pretty open to the judgment of the application reviewer (ultimately a judge I believe, not the clerk). My thought here being that she should have processed his application with a zerox of his Sheriff ID and left it to the judge to decide.


Norfolk Sheriff Academy

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:20:58 PM EDT
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:34:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



Yes, and there is a list of acceptable training.

I used my hunter's safety certificate.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:26:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burley:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



Yes, and there is a list of acceptable training.

I used my hunter's safety certificate.



I see the point... just struck me as odd that someone allowed by the city/state to carry on the job and have police powers (assuming they do) wouldn't auto qualify for a CHP.

In that instance, I was thinking the badge IS the proof of qualification, in a superceeding kinda way.

I guess I'm tainted by the underling notion that one shouldn't have to go appy for the right to uhh, use the right to carry in the first place, but thats a whole different issue!

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:54:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
I guess I'm tainted by the underling notion that one shouldn't have to go appy for the right to uhh, use the right to carry in the first place, but thats a whole different issue!



no training or proof thereof is needed if you want to let everybody see that you carry. virginia is good to its residents in that way. anybody who can legally own a handgun can legally open carry it. so in that regard you can exercise the right to carry with no forms needed.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:49:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



When I first got mine 12 years ago I was not asked to show a training certificate. I could have shown them my hunter safety card or DD 214 but no one asked. I don't even think there was a question on the form pertaining to training.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:21:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By centralvahunter:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



When I first got mine 12 years ago I was not asked to show a training certificate. I could have shown them my hunter safety card or DD 214 but no one asked. I don't even think there was a question on the form pertaining to training.


So your courthouse slipped.....

I know what the law says, and the clerk did the right thing.

Hell, as a cop, he didn't even need a CCH, but since he is going to jump through the same hoops as us to get one, he should have to jump through them all.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:55:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



when i got my CHP in Arlington County all i had to show was a copy of my military ID...no proof of anything else.

good thing cuz i didnt have anything else at the time
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:39:59 PM EDT
Arent all law enforcement working/retired given a 50 state concealed carry permit automatically?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:03:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Arent all law enforcement working/retired given a 50 state concealed carry permit automatically?




No, they are not. What they have is HB218, which is a law, not a permit. The officers have to carry their creds in order to carry.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:50:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
... The officers have to carry their creds in order to carry.


True – essentially the creds are the permit.

But otherwise he’d have to carry the CCW permit – so I don’t see the point.

And I’d think this guy would qualify as a VA peace officer, which I assume would also allow concealed off-duty wear (and probably give him much greater latitude regarding where he can carry).

Gotta wonder if he was a non-H.R. 218 eligible reserve or corrections officer.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:40:19 PM EDT by nvcdl]
The law does not require training. It simply allows the judge the discretion to require training.

A clerk should not refuse to accept any application.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:15:34 PM EDT
I recently got my CCW permit through VA Beach courts. All I had to do was show my miltary ID. Doesnt make sense to me.h.gif
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:33:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:35:19 AM EDT by DrMark]

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By centralvahunter:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



When I first got mine 12 years ago I was not asked to show a training certificate...


So your courthouse slipped.....



12 years ago was pre-"shall issue" and the law was different. I'm not trying to call BS on Hydguy, as I don't know if training was supposed to be required, but I didn't produce any training documents when I got my first in 1991. I wrote a statement of need, had letters of character reference from a Sherriff's Deputy in my county and from my pastor (who would go shooting with the county Sherriff), and met with the judge.

When the law change in 1995, I used my previous permit as evidence of competence.

...from www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm:


The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:

1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;

4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;

7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;

8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or

9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.

10. A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this subsection.


Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:31:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrMark:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By centralvahunter:

Originally Posted By Hydguy:
All applicants have to provide proof of firearms training. I know aux sherriffs who have never been to an academy, so they would have no proof of training.

You have to provide your training certificate: ie. DD-214 with fiorearms qualification, a firearms training cert from the NRA, a cert from a CCH class, and so on. YOu have to provide PROOF of training.



When I first got mine 12 years ago I was not asked to show a training certificate...


So your courthouse slipped.....



12 years ago was pre-"shall issue" and the law was different. I'm not trying to call BS on Hydguy, as I don't know if training was supposed to be required, but I didn't produce any training documents when I got my first in 1991. I wrote a statement of need, had letters of character reference from a Sherriff's Deputy in my county and from my pastor (who would go shooting with the county Sherriff), and met with the judge.

When the law change in 1995, I used my previous permit as evidence of competence.

...from www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm:


The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:

1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;

4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;

6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;

7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;

8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or

9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.

10. A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this subsection.





I left VA in '91, before I was old enough to have a CCH, and before I was interested in guns, so I have no idea what the requirements were prior to 2002. I didn't see that the person that I originally quoted had said that it was 12 years ago, which would have been '94.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:46:14 PM EDT
I am not suprised. Glad he is getting one. Every time I go to the Ches city building it results in another trip needed to the city building. They specialize in that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:08:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
I guess I'm tainted by the underling notion that one shouldn't have to go appy for the right to uhh, use the right to carry in the first place, but thats a whole different issue!


Right on. But I guess we should discuss that in another thread.

As a former LEO I can tell you that a badge trumps a CCW, hands down. The only reason an LEO needs a CCW is because he is turning in the badge.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:32:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By steven1513:

Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
I guess I'm tainted by the underling notion that one shouldn't have to go appy for the right to uhh, use the right to carry in the first place, but thats a whole different issue!


Right on. But I guess we should discuss that in another thread.

As a former LEO I can tell you that a badge trumps a CCW, hands down. The only reason an LEO needs a CCW is because he is turning in the badge.



Out of State LEO chiming in.......may, or may not be relevant to VA, I have no idea. We have a 5 day waiting period on firearms purchases in Broward County, FL that applies to everyone except CCW holders. As a LEO the only thing I would need a CCW for was to avoid the wait.

Just remembered another often quoted "CCW fact" tossed around down here. LEO's can carry their dept. issued weapon or other approved firearm off duty that they qualify with. If someone wants to carry an non-approved or non-qualifying weapon, then they can do it as long as they have a CCW. That way they can claim they were carrying under the CCW, and not dept. authority if they are involved in an off duty shooting. No idea if this would actually fly with the dept. when push came to shove though.


Link Posted: 3/17/2006 8:27:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Scott574:
If someone wants to carry an non-approved or non-qualifying weapon, then they can do it as long as they have a CCW.


Good point. But the department I worked for required us to carry only qualified weapons off duty. Don't know if Norfolk has that same policy. But your idea reminded me of another benifit. Virginia has a one handgun purchase per month limit. CCW holder's are exempt from that limit.

Regardless, the clerk handled it correctly.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 12:23:02 PM EDT
You know what is scary though? i just thought about this the other day, most court clerks take a military ID as proof of weapons class right? well... i'm in the army, and i'm not exactly sure, but i dont think navy and chair force types learn how to shoot in basic.... so... hmm, just wanted to throw that out there, flame on Zoomies and Squids!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:01:27 PM EDT
No disrespect to LEO, but active duty Military IN UNIFORM would have to provide the same proof of training. Why should civilian officials get special treatment when the Second Amendment applies to all citizens equally?
My 2 cents

R/

Mike
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:07:52 PM EDT
We (Navy) get to shoot......does'nt mean we can hit anything......LOL

R/

Mike
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:08:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 12:09:03 PM EDT by afplayboy18]

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:
You know what is scary though? i just thought about this the other day, most court clerks take a military ID as proof of weapons class right? well... i'm in the army, and i'm not exactly sure, but i dont think navy and chair force types learn how to shoot in basic.... so... hmm, just wanted to throw that out there, flame on Zoomies and Squids!



you're right..in the air force the only weapons training i had was shooting an m-16 for about an hour, no hand gun training. that was 5 years ago, it might have changed by now but i seriously doubt it.

i used my military ID as "proof of training" and they accepted it. it more along the lines of "hmm...i wonder if this will work" and to my surprise it did.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:23:32 PM EDT
Yeah, i mean, i haven't qualified with a handgun myself, '16 and up for me too. although a M249 with assault barrel and collapsing stock w/ 100rnd nutsack is a small pakage, maybe FOBUS makes something i can use in kydex for that....
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 11:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By afplayboy18:

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:
You know what is scary though? i just thought about this the other day, most court clerks take a military ID as proof of weapons class right? well... i'm in the army, and i'm not exactly sure, but i dont think navy and chair force types learn how to shoot in basic.... so... hmm, just wanted to throw that out there, flame on Zoomies and Squids!



you're right..in the air force the only weapons training i had was shooting an m-16 for about an hour, no hand gun training. that was 5 years ago, it might have changed by now but i seriously doubt it.

i used my military ID as "proof of training" and they accepted it. it more along the lines of "hmm...i wonder if this will work" and to my surprise it did.



And the hunter's safety course has nothing about handguns, either. The point is Firearms Safety Training (four rules of safety, etc), nothing more.

A person can have a badge and a sheriff's ID without receiving any training, but I can't think of a situation where you'd have an AD/RC ID card and NOT have attended weapons safety training.

Good on the clerk for following the rules.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:14:02 PM EDT
I'd really like to see one department where a sworn LEO is not trained to use a weapon
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:41:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 1:43:04 PM EDT by pevrs114]

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:
I'd really like to see one department where a sworn LEO is not trained to use a weapon




Dude, you have no realization of how many sheriffs across the country hand out badges and ID's for political favors. Go look in the sheriff's department wherever you live, and you'll most likely find at least one sworn individual who has received ZERO weapons training. While Police officers in the commonwealth are required to obtain DCJS certification (if they work more than 60 hours a year), there are no such requirements for deputy sheriffs. It happens quite often, and there's really nothing anyone can do. Thus, the need to provide proof of weapons training, beyond simply a badge, in order to obtain a CHP.
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